Boats to avoid?

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There are thousands of very happy Volvo owners. They're very popular in Europe. I've owned a Volvo Penta Stern Drive and it was great. I've also seen great things from Volvo on a corporate level in going to and beyond warranty requirements.
Did you own it long enough for the model to be discontinued? Volvo doesn't necessarily make a bad product. They have a history of poor parts support with commonly failing items in warranty and exceptionally pricey once out of warranty. Once a product is discontinued, they have a poor reputation of supporting legacy products. After a very bad experience with warranty support (parts unavailable for extended periods of time), I wouldn't own one of their products past the warranty period.

If you're buying a tractor for for over the road trucking, probably not a bad deal as most have less than 10 year life expectancy. Most boats 36' and larger have life expectancies in decades, well past how long Volvo will make the engines.

Ted
 
Did you own it long enough for the model to be discontinued? Volvo doesn't necessarily make a bad product. They have a history of poor parts support with commonly failing items in warranty and exceptionally pricey once out of warranty. Once a product is discontinued, they have a poor reputation of supporting legacy products. After a very bad experience with warranty support (parts unavailable for extended periods of time), I wouldn't own one of their products past the warranty period.

If you're buying a tractor for for over the road trucking, probably not a bad deal as most have less than 10 year life expectancy. Most boats 36' and larger have life expectancies in decades, well past how long Volvo will make the engines.

Ted


That is what I am referring to.
 
The boat you need to avoid is, the one that does not meet your needs and boating style.
 
One boat you might want to take a look at. Noticed it on Yacht World.

-- https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/20...e=standard listing&refSource=standard listing


More seriously, some things are common to many older trawlers. For example, leaking windows are common, as is water damage around the windows. Failing teak decks are common, as is resulting softness to the structural deck underneath. Where teak decks have been removed, it was often because they were failing, and the softened underlying structural decks may not have been fixed, just glassed over and painted. Hatches and portholes often have bad gaskets and/or screw downs that leak and can damage the wood around. Sometimes doors and "improvised" hatches aren't weather proofed. Sometimes deck or house fittings leak. Sometimes bulkheads and interior paneling can be soft as a result. Sometimes the structural plywood of the house can also be soft. Owners often paint over, veneer over, carpet over, or otherwise cover up the water damage, without fixing the root cause. Often what looks clean is freshly painted and feels soft or has moisture.

Some of this is to be expected in most any mid-priced trawler from the 1970s and 1980s. Maybe even some from the early-to-mid 1990s. Everyone has their own threshhold. But, if the deeper the damage is, the harder it is to fix. Once structural plywood around windows are rotten, it needs to be replaced -- or there is nothing to which to reseal the windows. Once interior panelling is soft, it can't really be covered up or painted. It needs to be replaced and then veneered (of non-matching) or painted.

If one is going to walk away from any boat with signs of these things -- the cost of boat buying just went up, by a lot. But, once also doesn't want to buy one that is really, really far gone, unless one is looking to use the boat without caring at all about these things, and is getting a huge discount (to possibly be the boat's last owner). Somewhere in the middle between "museum piece" and "gonner" is the boat that most people want. Having a good sense of your tolerances, how much work you are willing to do, how much you are willing to pay people to do, and what your budget is as compared to boats on the market will really help.

Also, the various boats in the fleet of used recreational boats get used very differently. This includes trawlers. I like to think of them as falling into three, maybe four, classes:
1) Slip boats (weekend condos, liveaboards, cocktail party boats, BBQ boats, etc)
2) Social cruisers used only in local, largely protected waters (Cocktail cruises, grandkid afternoon fishing trips, 4th of July fireworks)
3) Full use boats (Used routinely in open water)
4) True long range cruisers (If you'd like to add this class)

My observation is that one is much, much better off buying a boat within the class of one's intended use.

If, for example, all you want is a boat for social reasons at the slip, there is no reason to buy one that is an open water boat. You'll pay more than you need to buy it. And, you'll lose all of the extra money. After a couple or small few years of not leaving the slip, it won't be an open water cruiser anymore. Boats like to get run. And, even if you spend the money to maintain it as an open water boat -- that is wasted on your use.

Similarly, if you want to cruise or deep sea fish or whatever, you'll be better off buying a boat from someone who does that, or recently has. At worst, there is a little deferred maintenance. If you try, for example to take "champagne cruiser" and turn it into an open water boat, you are likely to find a huge amount of deferred maintenance. The local social user doesn't need things to be reliable. They use them until they are dead then patch them up. What is the worst thing that happens? They come in on one engine or get a short tow? The person going out 25-50 miles or planning to cruise for days at a time? They can't have a boat that works like that, they don't want to turn into a rubber duck bouncing around the ocean helplessly while waiting for a tow to a strange port. They need a boat that works not only right now, but truly reliably.

And, taking a boat that has been a "liveaboard" and turning into a useful boat? Ouch! I did that once. It cost me many tens of thousands of dollars more than I could have bought it for. The happiest folks were the ones I sold it to -- they got a great boat for what I could have paid for it. And, I am far from alone in having tried that route -- and paid for it.

As far as true long range cruisers. These folks have boats that are in about the same class as open water boats. But, they often have tons and tons and tons of spare parts aboard. It isn't uncommon for them to have spare shafts, props, coolers, alternators, starters, injectors, gaskets, etc. These are close to worthless for someone who isn't worried about getting fixed in a foreign port. Most of them will never be needed. But, to someone who is going to spend months in Mexico or the Bahamas or wherever -- they are the difference between enjoying the life with piece of mind and cruising months or years on end -- and getting stuck at some random port for weeks or longer, waiting for parts, and paying way, way more than they are worth when they should be cruising.

The bottom line is that if one buys a boat in a higher class than their intended use, they are paying more than they need -- and will likely lose the "extra" by the time they go to sell it , because the boat will float down to the class in which it is used.

And, if one buys a boat lower than the class than the intended use, one will likely pay a lot more to rehab it than they could have just to buy one in the condition that they need, they'll take a lot more risk in terms of budget and time to do that, and they'll spend a lot more time trying to get the boat in shape than otherwise, which means less time doing the type of boating that they want.

So, I'd suggest thinking about how you'll use the boat -- and buying a boat that is currently used that way, or has been used that way within no more than ~1-2 years. (It isn't uncommon for older folks to "wind down" their boat usage, and then sell. If this takes too long, the boat drops a class or more. But, 1-2 years it is normally still within the same class, just with more deferred maintenance.
 
Also, the various boats in the fleet of used recreational boats get used very differently. This includes trawlers. I like to think of them as falling into three, maybe four, classes:
1) Slip boats (weekend condos, liveaboards, cocktail party boats, BBQ boats, etc)
2) Social cruisers used only in local, largely protected waters (Cocktail cruises, grandkid afternoon fishing trips, 4th of July fireworks)
3) Full use boats (Used routinely in open water)
4) True long range cruisers (If you'd like to add this class)

On the west coast, or at least Alaska you also get recreational boats that have been in commercial charter service and 6-pack charter fishing service. They can be run pretty ragged.
 
On the west coast, or at least Alaska you also get recreational boats that have been in commercial charter service and 6-pack charter fishing service. They can be run pretty ragged.

True that. Somehow charter operators are extremely skilled in squeezing the last bit of life out of a boat. One day they are seemingly reliably out there. And the next they are floating zombies
 
Just keep reading , there are a huge number of boat problems discussed on this board.

Read about the repairs , and decide if this style of repair is part of your boating hobby.

Make a list of boats , and a list of repairs you will soon see the repair queens.

Make a list , check it twice ,,,,,you will know which boats are never nice.
 
Avoid boats that are extremely pointed in the bow but wide and fairly flat aft.

And if said boat has small rudders.....
 
Beware of VOLVOs...run from them as you would the plague. Good engines but replacement parts, if you can find them, cost triple those of Cummins or Cats.
 
Beware of VOLVOs...run from them as you would the plague. Good engines but replacement parts, if you can find them, cost triple those of Cummins or Cats.



So here is my 2 cents worth:

Boats in prefect Bristol condition sell for less than they are worth and beat up boats sell for more than they are worth.
Nobody wants to buy a boat priced “ above market” because that just isn’t a good deal. Or is Italy’s?
And speaking for myself, no matter how many boats I buy, “ with a little work to be done” the time, effort and money always seems to expand from my original estimate, or double my estimate, or... you get the idea.
Maybe you can find a distress sale boat and get a great deal, but leave those deals to the really experienced folks.
So unless you are a skilled do it your self type, with plenty of time and money, and you really enjoy the work, buy something that was built well to begin with, and maintained well throughout its life.
The less you know about boats, the more important it is to find a knowledgeable broker that you can trust. And then buy a boat with a reputation for quality. The purchase price is only one element of the total cost of ownership for the ten years you keep it. Ten years of expensive repairs, followed by selling at a much depreciated price will make you think twice the next time about buying a well built and well maintained boat to begin with.
So maybe your question to the forum should be, “ I want to do this with my boat, and go here and there, and I have this much money... what are the best boats out there for this set of criteria?

Best wishes
 
RArmstrong,


Another source for info is the AGLCA. Americas Great Loop Cruisers Association. They have much discussion about the Loop and also cruising over to the Bahamas. Each year they have 2 meetings along the route. The fall one is around October and at Joe Wheeler State Park in Alabama. In addition to seminars etc on the Loop they also have the Looper Crawl. The people Looping open up their boats for future loopers to crawl through, ask questions and get an idea of what may work for them. Some of the boats will be for sale when the current owners complete the Loop. Being from AR it might be work the trip over to Bama to see the options out there. A small boat show if you will.



Good Luck,


Keith
 
You need to find a Boat Nut to buy a boat from. I am always looking for things to fix or improve on my boat. Usually after I get them all fixed up I sell them because I get bored and have nothing left to do on the boat. Right now my back is messed up and I can’t work on my boat and I am slowly going nuts. So I have been spending the last week buying steel, hardware, a trolley, chain fall and miscellaneous items needed to pull out my port engine so I can proactively replace my port fuel tank. It doesn’t leak yet but it is 32 years old and will leak sooner or later. I guess that is why we are on our 23rd boat. But this one may be the last one since our yard can’t haul anything larger and I am starting to be less able to do the heavy work. So this boat will be the one to buy when I am gone. It will probably be so full of stuff that you won’t be able to move but I will have had fun equipping it. Good luck in your search.
 
Stay away from the Cummins VT-555. AKA the “cripple-nickel.”
 
Tell me about that Cummins. I have been driving the same 1999 Dodge Turbo- Diesel for 12+ years. Are their marine engines troublesome?
 
The 555 Cummins is an older engine. It is hard to get parts for. Otherwise the newer Cummins engines are very good. I have a 6BT in our motorhome and it is great.
 
Why? Does the boat dive too much? Poor handling? A little explanation is very helpful. This a great thread. First time buyers like me are probably glued to their screens. Bill




Avoid boats that are extremely pointed in the bow but wide and fairly flat aft.

And if said boat has small rudders.....
 
Not wanting to bash anybody's personal vessel, but I know of cars and motorcycles I hear people tell other people they may want to avoid. Are there any Trawlers out there that are just plain not a good idea to buy? If not boats, how about certain engines? I am just hoping to avoid expensive mistakes! thanks for any input you may have.




I don't know how I missed this.


The answer is, all of them. Build your own from scratch like a few of us have done/are doing. :lol:




Avoid the ones that are slowly sinking. :rofl:


Sorry. I feel I have to be the comedic relief some nights. :D
 
I had a little boat, 24 ft that I loved, but she just wasn't "enough" boat. I'm really thinking more like 36 ft this time.
 
Two simple rules

1. The most expensive boat is the one with the lowest asking price for it’s model

2. The cheapest boat is often the boat with the highest asking price for it’s model
 
Tell me about that Cummins. I have been driving the same 1999 Dodge Turbo- Diesel for 12+ years. Are their marine engines troublesome?
The engine is a 6BT 220 HP. They have a great reputation as marine engines. They are also offered as 6BTA (after cooled). Those also have a good reputation with substantially more horse power. The current version of the same block is the QSB. Had a 6BT 210 HP in my charter boat that was flawless. Only changed as I needed more HP.

My 17 year old Dodge has the 6BT 220 HP with 475,000 miles on it.

Ted
 
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Personally I would give boats labelled Fleming or Marlow a pass unless you are not averse to writing checks with 7 digits to the left of the decimal or need a place to hang your NYYC burgee.
 
Wow, what an interesting thread !! I think it has all been said but I would re-add.. Don't buy a stern drive in a larger, heavier boat. They just don't hold up.

pete
 
Like this one? My father in law did not like me considering this boat. He said the bow did not have enough volume.
Boat for sale - Lepage Craft 41 RAISED PILOTHOUSE Scaled down RPH 49 Defever - 41'

The shape of the bow looks a lot like a Marine Trader hull. Lots of flare, the sun shadows emphasize in the pictures.

My boat has similar shadows in the right sun. The flare keeps the windows free of green water, and I get way less spray than more vertical bows or more full forward hulls. Check out Grand Banks for a very wet ride in seas where this hull shape stays dry. I consider it an advantage. Definitely a good hull shape.
 
Two simple rules

1. The most expensive boat is the one with the lowest asking price for it’s model

2. The cheapest boat is often the boat with the highest asking price for it’s model
Having bought 10 boats since 1995, the above post has certainly been my experience. Also, loving the boat's looks, layout, etc. is really important. It really softens the blow of inevitable maintenance problems that will surface. And although I've never owned one, Volvos seem to pop up on this site as expensive to get parts for....:hide:
 
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Ok, thank you for your input! My father in law felt that this boat lacked sufficient volume in the bow and would likely be a very active "diver" and would provide too much up and down action in the front of the boat in bigger seas. I am not sure how much that really bothers me to be honest. As long as the crew is not getting concerned, the boat is not getting terribly wet, and the props are not loosing purchase, well it is kind of an interesting feature. I would be more concerned about side to side action than fore and aft. Rolling tends to sicken those prone to sea sickness, diving not as much. Must have something to do with the inner ear I would guess.
Thanks again. Bill







The shape of the bow looks a lot like a Marine Trader hull. Lots of flare, the sun shadows emphasize in the pictures.

My boat has similar shadows in the right sun. The flare keeps the windows free of green water, and I get way less spray than more vertical bows or more full forward hulls. Check out Grand Banks for a very wet ride in seas where this hull shape stays dry. I consider it an advantage. Definitely a good hull shape.
 

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