Boating and Cannabis

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

From Power and Motor Yacht.

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/a...g-and-cannabis

[phillippeterson]

Isn't there a test to determine THC levels, e.g. 0.08 for alcohol? And not just test for presence but a quantifiable level.

[backinblue]

I think you are missing the point. Cannabis is still illegal federally. The USCG is a federal agency. Also, cannabis use can be detected in your body long after the effects wear off, so the whole enforcement issue is murky.

[psneeld]

Yes there are tests for quantifiable amounts ( have been for decades).... when I was involved as a senior USCG official, the detailed tests were so outrageous for cost/complexity that it was impractical at the time. I believe there are more simple tests now but my guess the lack of wide acceptance is because their accuracy/inability to determine "high/influence".

I am sure it varies between states but some/many still go with "under the influence" and that can be for virtually any amount detected. Strange though, alcohol is still at some specific threshold.

Lots of legal opinions/clarifications on Google.

Though never in an article I have read, my background in the USCG suggests the feds are reluctant/ can't/ won't change drug laws due to being entangled in international treaties.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by phillippeterson

Isn't there a test to determine THC levels, e.g. 0.08 for alcohol? And not just test for presence but a quantifiable level.

My understanding is NO
The only tests I'm aware of ID presence but I didn't think it can quantify.

Even if quantifiable the fact that the compounds remain in your system for a long time (weeks?) make use of any test data difficult.

AFAIK The long residual presence makes use of testing difficult or impossible as an enforcement tool for any boating, driving, operating anything while ability impaired... thats part of what makes the legalization or not such a controversial subject. How would LEO apply use of marijuana to bus / taxi / uber drivers, charter capts, equip operators, etc. when it could have been consumed long (days / weeks) before the work / operation period.

[backinblue]

It also raises another issue not boating-related. You can be employed in a state where it's illegal and vacation in a state where it's not. If you use cannabis on vacation then come back to work you could test positive for illegal drug use.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by backinblue

It also raises another issue not boating-related. You can be employed in a state where it's illegal and vacation in a state where it's not. If you use cannabis on vacation then come back to work you could test positive for illegal drug use.

It's worse than that. I work for a company headquartered in Denver - Colorado is a state where marijuana is legal. Company has a zero tolerance policy. If you test positive, you're fired. If you're an applicant and test positive, your offer is recinded.

I don't know why anyone would risk this type of situation - "but officer, I only had one toke." Outcome would be wholly dependent on the mood and disposition of the LEO involved. Trying to point out the error of his reasoning will not help the situation.

Peter

[jgwinks]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

How would LEO apply use of marijuana to bus / taxi / uber drivers, charter capts, equip operators, etc. when it could have been consumed long (days / weeks) before the work / operation period.

In the US most transportation workers are subject to preemployment, reasonable suspicion, after incident, and random drug testing. That includes commercial boat captains, truck & bus drivers, pilots, etc. If there's an incident in a commercial vehicle all involved get tested. Zero tolerance there and it's a condition of employment. If your employer thinks you're acting strangely (called reasonable suspicion, as a supervisor I had to take classes on that) they can test you. Penalty is at the very least loss of license. "Under the influence" is not debated, any presence or refusal to test is a violation. They test for pot, meth, opioids, amphetamines and cocaine. Alcohol is also tested after incident but that's a separate reg. It all started many years ago when two passenger trains collided head on killing hundreds. Both drivers bodies (they both died) showed high levels of cocaine. When I was actively working my Master ticket, I got random tested many times, the company had to send several members of the crews in at least four times a year. And I have to test to renew the license and before any new employment.

[Sailor of Fortune]

Originally Posted by jgwinks

In the US most transportation workers are subject to preemployment, reasonable suspicion, after incident, and random drug testing. That includes commercial boat captains, truck & bus drivers, pilots, etc. If there's an incident in a commercial vehicle all involved get tested. Zero tolerance there and it's a condition of employment. If your employer thinks you're acting strangely (called reasonable suspicion, as a supervisor I had to take classes on that) they can test you. Penalty is at the very least loss of license. "Under the influence" is not debated, any presence or refusal to test is a violation. They test for pot, meth, opioids, amphetamines and cocaine. Alcohol is also tested after incident but that's a separate reg. It all started many years ago when two passenger trains collided head on killing hundreds. Both drivers bodies (they both died) showed high levels of cocaine. When I was actively working my Master ticket, I got random tested many times, the company had to send several members of the crews in at least four times a year. And I have to test to renew the license and before any new employment.

We get random tests as well. A tester will show up and every crew member will have to test. I have had to test on my time off before (random). I get a fed ex envelope with orders to go to quest diagnostics and test within 48 hrs...Also got drug tested twice in one day... I took a required physical and was tested and returned to the tug which was having a random test..yup, tested again

[jgwinks]

Originally Posted by Sailor of Fortune

We get random tests as well. A tester will show up and every crew member will have to test. I have had to test on my time off before (random). I get a fed ex envelope with orders to go to quest diagnostics and test within 48 hrs...Also got drug tested twice in one day... I took a required physical and was tested and returned to the tug which was having a random test..yup, tested again

Haven't had it quite that bad but I did get tagged three quarters in a row. Other members didn't get tagged for years. They call it random, and it is.

[KnotYet]

Every industry is different.
In the '80's one in particular would provide supplements if your level seemed low!

[BandB]

So many opinions about it, but the reality is it's legal in some states, not in others, but illegal by federal law and, therefore, the CG does enforce it. Sometimes suspecting potential trafficking, will get very zealous. It would cause any captain to lose their license and it's presence can cause fines for boat owners and even loss of boats.

Only tests for determining whether one is under the influence are the standard field sobriety tests. As to determining possession if it's in a liquid or other form not easily detected, none of the field kits law enforcement was using work. The problem is they can't determine quantity. Now the equipment in labs can do so.

The laws can't even keep up with the market. Delta 9 is illegal in some states, so places started selling Delta 8 and states had to pass new laws. Then there is the magic 0.3% rule. Less is legal in all states. I find it hysterical how long it took for an enterprising girl to figure out a solution. However can you possibly sell gummies with up to 15 mg of THC? Simple. Make the gummies bigger.

Even within states where it's not legal, you'll see far different levels of enforcement. One LEO will say no big deal and another will cite you and refer to it as narcotics. Then you get to employers, as Weebles pointed out. I understand concerns operating equipment but employers have gone way too far in many cases testing for both illegal and legal drugs and forcing employees to provide evidence of prescriptions. Our business rules are no use within 10 hours of a work shift and no smell of it or tobacco. We can tell if employees are high by their work. We do not test for any drugs (other than truck drivers) except in the event of an accident or injury.

For our boats, our rules are no crew can use at anytime and no guests can ever bring it or any illegal drug aboard.

We really need to change all our approaches in our war on drugs as they aren't working and aren't consistent. I do worry about marijuana use as I do about alcohol use, as those like the ones in the article who "must" use it every day are addicted and likely impacted in many ways by the long term use. There is a huge difference in how your body is impacted by years of daily use vs. the occasional recreational use.

Brief rant against the latest insanity. Over 2/3 of all drug deaths are attributable to Fentanyl. Fentanyl test strips are widely available and accurate in determining it's presence. Yet, those strips are illegal in many states. The strips cost less than $1 each.

Back to the article, "Steve thinks marijuana should be treated like alcohol". Well, so do I, but what either of us thinks is irrelevant. It's illegal in many states and illegal on boats. This is without even considering travel to other countries and the serious consequences one might encounter.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by jgwinks

In the US most transportation workers are subject to preemployment, reasonable suspicion, after incident, and random drug testing. That includes commercial boat captains, truck & bus drivers, pilots, etc. If there's an incident in a commercial vehicle all involved get tested. Zero tolerance there and it's a condition of employment. If your employer thinks you're acting strangely (called reasonable suspicion, as a supervisor I had to take classes on that) they can test you. Penalty is at the very least loss of license. "Under the influence" is not debated, any presence or refusal to test is a violation. They test for pot, meth, opioids, amphetamines and cocaine. Alcohol is also tested after incident but that's a separate reg. It all started many years ago when two passenger trains collided head on killing hundreds. Both drivers bodies (they both died) showed high levels of cocaine. When I was actively working my Master ticket, I got random tested many times, the company had to send several members of the crews in at least four times a year. And I have to test to renew the license and before any new employment.

I am glad to hear that snd hope its universal. That still leaves the non commercial drivers that dont sign sny empliyment contracts. If any accident does a driver lise license for trace amt that.might be weeks old when its legal in that state?

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

I am glad to hear that snd hope its universal. That still leaves the non commercial drivers that dont sign sny empliyment contracts. If any accident does a driver lise license for trace amt that.might be weeks old when its legal in that state?

If driving commercially, you will lose your license in every state. Use of the drug is cause, under influence not required. A non-commercial driver will only have their license impacted if convicted of driving under the influence. Under the influence is very difficult to prove.

[Soo-Valley]

Steve’s classic 34-foot trawler lazily swings on the hook.

wrong, it is a 36 classic. Must be a typo.

There was no mention of where the substance was purchased. Does that matter, I wonder, if we brought the good stuff with us instead of buying local.

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Before guests come on board, I ask if anyone has weed on them. If they say yes, with a smile. I tell them to leave it in their car. But it's legal in this state they say. Yes it is until we leave the dock. Then we fall under federal law. Not worth giving up my boat.

[psneeld]

Believe this is still true...

"Final Thoughts on Interstate Transport of Marijuana

At the time of writing, it is entirely illegal to cross state lines with cannabis. It doesn't matter if you are traveling from one recreational or medicinal marijuana state to another; you can be arrested and charged with drug trafficking.Mar 4, 2020"

[Bob Cofer]

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction

Before guests come on board, I ask if anyone has weed on them. If they say yes, with a smile. I tell them to leave it in their car. But it's legal in this state they say. Yes it is until we leave the dock. Then we fall under federal law. Not worth giving up my boat.

^What he said^

[jgwinks]

Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction

Before guests come on board, I ask if anyone has weed on them. If they say yes, with a smile. I tell them to leave it in their car. But it's legal in this state they say. Yes it is until we leave the dock. Then we fall under federal law. Not worth giving up my boat.

We had to have that discussion with the kids they hired as wait staff on the dinner boat I used to drive. "It's legal here!" Yes, in the parking lot, but as soon as you come through the gate and board the boat it is not. And any prior use is not. That was just before the preemployment test for everyone, some of them didn't pass.

[trihartsfield]

Interesting side note. There is really no good data that pre-employment drug testing effects on the job incidents/injuries.

I have worked in the medical industry for 35 years and have had multiple jobs with multiple healthcare entities. Some do pre-employment drug testing and some do not. I have been told (I have not confirmed this) that the main reason they do pre-employment drug testing is because it lowers insurance costs.

Chris