Boat Ranking / Selection spreadsheet

[JustBob]

Has anyone developed a selection spreadsheet, that you used when evaluating various models, leading to a purchase?

I poked around the web, the only real decent one I found was for sailing cats. I could adapt it.

No, I'm not in the market, helping a friend!

I'm thinking that the features/requirements run down the first column, and then various models have their columns to the right. Giving a score for each requirement.

Requirements would be things like:

Twin Engines
Single engine
bow thruster
stern thruster
washer / dryer
fuel tankage
Engine(s) hours
Flybridge
Location

You get the idea. Maybe three categories of requirements A, B, C. The score that foots out at the bottom of each category will help the future owner make his/her selection.

If you know of one, or built one, please share it here if inclined. Or PM me. Happy to adapt and then share myself.

TIA.

 

[GoneDiving]

Selection Matrices are great for nerds like myself �� They can be used in all manner of choices.

Just rate 'Must Haves' from 0 to 100, 'Nice to Haves' from 0 to 10. Sum to get a score per vessel. Sort by Score and sanity check the top 10% for errors. Easy when each item has only one field to score eg the engines may be 80/100 suitable.

Without derailing the post too much, the same method can also be used where items have multiple fields eg spare parts may have Failure Frequency, Failure Consequence, Time to Replace, Cost etc. For these, just sum the sub fields to give the item rating then sort that item rating and buy/select those that you have space/money for.

I'll go and get a life now. ��

Cheers

 

[fractalphreak]

Sent you a PM with my email, I can't attach a spreadsheet to a post or to the library.

We made one that isn't quite that fancy but has quite a lot of features we looked for with colored conditional formatting to get a visual on how "green" or "red" a boat looked. Also have my initial boat work list, incorporating our survey findings and our own, also our a page that has a list of features/upgrades/repairs we'd add to a boat with our own estimated costs and a check box to quickly estimate upgrade costs for boats we looked at, and the samples of some of the boats we considered as well as the final purchase costs and some of the actual upgrade costs for our boat on another page of the spreadsheet.

Here's a screenshot of it...for example, a single engine boat with no thruster would have the engine colored green - our preference, but the bow thruster column red, because that is, for us, highly desired item in a single. a twin engine boat is yellow regardless, because twins are not as desirable to us but acceptable...Pay no attention to the actual decision points, for example I had Perkins as yellow more because I wasn't seeing as many locally in the boats I was looking at and wasn't personally learning as much about them. I likely would have been fine with one. I assure you they are slightly different today and will likely be different again in 5 years, but close. In the end we ended up very happy with our boat, so it worked. (We had quite a few criteria we logged and judged. The below spreadsheet goes from A to AT. Some is just data, like make, model, location, etc, but most of it is judged colored blocks like you see below..

 

[ranger58sb]

Can't speak to spreadsheet, but...

Twin engines and Single engine would seem to be mutually exclusive... unless you mean Any engine.

More useful maybe, things like bow and stern thrusters could in many cases be added after the fact, so maybe a way to handle to criteria like that, bonus points if already installed but maybe not a showstopper if not installed... something like that...

-Chris

 

[Bacchus]

The various features that fall in must, want, dont want are so personal that it would likely need major revision. I'd include a weighting factor for each feature depending on how important it is is another feature. You could have them total 100 % and assign a % to each feature adding up to 100%.
Then just decide on a rating scheme... 0 to 5 or 0 to 3. O lacking completely, good better, best.
I would guess if you can modify a spreadsheet you could build one to do exactly what you want.
Most good evaluation schemes include the important features, how important and a rating. Musts are considered binary if not present that choice fails. Only wants & dont wants get rated unless you are also willing to toss one that has a feature you dont want then that is considered the opposite of a want.
If you dont get something that works PM me with your email and I'm willing to draft something up.

 

[John R M]

I did one that's not overly fancy. A couple of things I added were columns for age of boat and price, then the ratio between the two. Only real benefit is to quickly determine at a glance that older models with higher prices are less desirable than newer boats with lower prices. Seems quite logical but seeing it visually really helps.

Another thing I added was estimated travel days from boat's location and mine. If I ever get a boat, it will be a Grand Banks 42. They are too big to transport over land and I don't want to get involved with removing and reinstalling the flybridge, so either self or skippered delivery are what I'm facing.

 

[Bkay]

Oh man, I came from the military at a time where we did a Decision Matrix (DecMat) for everything.

I've developed them for comparing totally different types of boats to see which type is a best overall fit and I've developed them to compare multiple similar boats that each have slightly different features (and I've done it for houses, places to live, wives...well, maybe not that last one).

My wife was a decision analyst for Newport News Shipbuilding, so she laughs at my "cute little models" - but I find them very helpful when you find yourself saying things like "Well, a lobster boat has the potential to be fast and can still go slow. But on the other hand, a trawler can only go slow but may have better side deck access and be more comfortable in my typical cruising area, plus it has these features.". It's great to be able to decide what qualities are important to you then compare different features against those qualities.

Man, I'm geeking out just by thinking about it.

 

[4mo]

I ran a spreadsheet comparing all available Navigators on the west coast for over a year before we purchased based not on a ratings scale, but $ values attributed to different options. i.e. a watermaker was worth ~$3,000 to me, not because that was the cost of a new one, but because it was worth something and a new one would be substantially more. If the watermaker was 40g/hr., had a remote panel or autoflush it would maybe be $4,000. Stern thruster was also around $3k as it would be nice to have but certainly not a requirement and not something I would add.

Basically I was trying to individually value the options, then take them into account for each boat we were looking at.

The options I valued were: stern thruster, staples, flybridge layout, bow seating, engine manufacturer, engine hours, fuel tank size, fuel tank age, holding tank size, house battery bank size/config, generator, engine controls, heat source, boat house kept, davit max load, electronics, interior condition, exterior condition, mechanical condition and dinghy

 

[bayview]

Most decision matrices yield results different than popular opinions such as hatteras is good bayliner is bad.

In decades of coastal boating on both coasts I have rarely see a bad boat regardless of brand. They all see to do what owners expect and show up at harbors everywhere.

Most unhappiness with boats derives from poor maintenance, boat unsuitable for the intended use and most importantly an inexperienced operator.

 

[seabum]

Justifying a boat

Just a thought, but.....
In my humble opinion it sounds as if you have failed to recognize one vital factor in your quest to develop a perfect analytical tool to use in making a rational selection of a new boat - boat ownership is irrational and there is no rational criteria tool that can be used to justify making an irrational decision, boat ownership is dumb and a ton of fun.



You might consider attempting to develop a ration application to justify buying flowers, going skiing or drink Bombay instead of Gordons. Can’t happen. If you want a boat just find one that lights your wick and buy it. However, you will likely soon find that you may need a second or a third boat to push all the right buttons – buy them too, and some flowers and Bombay to put on that new boat. Life is too short to over analyze this. Just find a boat you like and squeeze the trigger.

 

[Airstream345]

Fractal, we're clearly brothers from another mother.

I'm sharing a copy of the Google sheet I created as we evaluated specific boats over the last year. Very similar to yours.

On the left are the requirements including priority. The columns across the top represent each boat. The values are then filled in and a red, yellow, green color code is applied.

This made it easy to not only compare boats, but also to remember details from a specific boat under consideration without having to go back to the listing or the broker.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18sBmnX7r7f4YYESiAQotHa7IfLXQbGZq9Wrmg_LdiLI

Feel free to copy this and use/modify.

 

[danderer]

I ran a spreadsheet comparing all available Navigators on the west coast for over a year before we purchased based not on a ratings scale, but $ values attributed to different options. i.e. a watermaker was worth ~$3,000 to me, not because that was the cost of a new one, but because it was worth something and a new one would be substantially more. If the watermaker was 40g/hr., had a remote panel or autoflush it would maybe be $4,000. Stern thruster was also around $3k as it would be nice to have but certainly not a requirement and not something I would add.

That approach has worked well for us when comparing boats of the same model. In our most recent experience, we looked at 6 of the same model before making a decision.

 

[AdmiralS]

We have a spreadsheet, but its really just a list of "Guiding Principles".

Its about 20 items long. Order of importance starts at #1, and then become less important as you go down the list.

When looking at a boat, if it meets the first 12 then its a contender, the rest is just gravy.

 

[fractalphreak]

I ran a spreadsheet comparing all available Navigators on the west coast for over a year before we purchased based not on a ratings scale, but $ values attributed to different options. i.e. a watermaker was worth ~$3,000 to me, not because that was the cost of a new one, but because it was worth something and a new one would be substantially more. If the watermaker was 40g/hr., had a remote panel or autoflush it would maybe be $4,000. Stern thruster was also around $3k as it would be nice to have but certainly not a requirement and not something I would add.

Basically I was trying to individually value the options, then take them into account for each boat we were looking at.

The options I valued were: stern thruster, staples, flybridge layout, bow seating, engine manufacturer, engine hours, fuel tank size, fuel tank age, holding tank size, house battery bank size/config, generator, engine controls, heat source, boat house kept, davit max load, electronics, interior condition, exterior condition, mechanical condition and dinghy

We did something similar, but for a lot of the items that we would want but a boat was missing, the values we considered would be the DYI install values for us to do it on that boat, depending on the boat and its condition....

 

[fractalphreak]

Just a thought, but.....
In my humble opinion it sounds as if you have failed to recognize one vital factor in your quest to develop a perfect analytical tool to use in making a rational selection of a new boat - boat ownership is irrational and there is no rational criteria tool that can be used to justify making an irrational decision, boat ownership is dumb and a ton of fun.

I agree. As you can see from the sometimes vehement discussions here on the forums there are as many opinions about this and that I doubt there is a single person who could take my spread sheet and find it useful for them, as is. In fact, it actually had a Y/N vote for each boat for the admiral and I that was an ultimate deal killer despite everything else as well.

BUT. Someone can go through and put in criteria that's important to them, or numbers of gallons of fuel or water that's important to them, or an engine or engines that are "green" for them, and find the tool can help them start to develop a sense of a group of boats or a model or year range that they can start to hone in on, especially if they are looking at a large number of boats...

Ultimately we didn't buy a boat that would have scored all the points (a Defever 41 we had seen for sale but was snatched up before we could look at it might have come close) but in retrospect we did very well finding our boat, and think the tool we developed helped us, and helped us understand the complicated variety of systems and combinations of features we were looking at on the boats we evaluated.

 

[Datenight]

Hi Bob,

We did the spreadsheet thing when we bought our first boat, a 23' walk around cuddy. Diane was having trouble keeping all the features straight so chaneled her inner nerd to create one. I found it to be very helpful. The salesmen all wanted to see what she had developed and how their boats stacked up. It led us to buy a Wellcraft, our first "cruising" boat.

Rob

 

[Stickman]

Ya’ll are admirable. I just kept showing my wife boats for 3 years until she gave me a thumbs up. Then I made the best of it. Simple.

 

[4mo]

Our's was super helpful after we knew the boat we wanted... when the one we finally bought popped up on a Thursday night I was intrigued, but after I entered in all the specs we put in a contingent offer sight-unseen on Friday morning, flew down Saturday morning to see it, and still ended up in a bidding war.

It won't always happen like that, but if you can define a great deal you can act efficiently and know the market.

 

[Codger2]

Some time ago on this forum, one of our members, Nomad Willy, made a comment that a quality used boat that has been taken care of by several "fussy" owners most likely will be better than a new boat and significantly less money! Each owner most probably has added improvements that when totaled up, have resulted in a terrific "up to date boat!" So, if you have a particular style of boat in mind, look for the one that has been immaculately cared for and start the negotiations. You'll find that not only is the seller getting a better price, he is also looking for that buyer which he thinks will continue to care for the boat as he & others did.

I'd like to think I'm in that category & have practiced that philosophy in 10 boat purchases since 1995.

Find a model that you absolutely lust for, ask some very basic questions like, SD or FD, Twins or diesel, engine(s) model, number of staterooms, cruise speed, (not WOT) etc. If you find one in great condition that meets your most basic wants, have it surveyed, make a deal and sit on the dock box and admire it every chance you get. You will find that over the years, you, as all the others owner did, will add improvements that make the boat even better!

 

[ssteakley]

Include Design Ratios on your Spreadsheet

We shopped lots of boats and the only tool I could think of to remember what the boats we stepped on was a spreadshhet. The most important columns related to Design Ratios. We wanted a safe passage maker including overnight offshore ocean passages. Only design ratios or parameters can provide you with the information you need for comparison. See Power Boats: Boat Design Parameters (cont.) as an example but do not stop there, read all you can on the subject. I wrote a book for sailboats where design ratios are the the central theme. You can just search my name on Amazon. Why do I hang out on a Trawler site? Because there is so much crossover in topics and discussion and one day I may just own one.
Steve Steakley

 

[Tony sundeck 40]

After years of boatbuilding and sailing I knew the day would come when I went over to the dark side and would buy a trawler. All those years in the industry I knew I would get an Albin good quality at a fair price. That was my matrix

 

[rider1964]

Only one way.

Ya’ll are admirable. I just kept showing my wife boats for 3 years until she gave me a thumbs up. Then I made the best of it. Simple.

You must be a happily married captain.

 

[rgano]

If I ever get a boat, it will be a Grand Banks 42. They are too big to transport over land and I don't want to get involved with removing and reinstalling the flybridge, so either self or skippered delivery are what I'm facing.

I transported my GB42 from San Diego to Galveston without removing the FB, but at the time (1990) was told that moving it east of the Mississippi without removing the FB would be impossible.

Oh, and my matrix back in 1986 was that for the same price as a single engine no-name brand 40 footer I was looking at, the wooden GB42 with twins was a good deal at $89K.

My Matrix in 2015 for the MS Pilot was brand versus price trade-off conducted with a surveyor friend of mine, 30-foot length, light enough to put on a lift, and twice as fast as the GB.

I am NOT knocking spreadsheet, I live by them whenever I can; just not in my boat buying.

 

[Capitaine R]

Ya’ll are admirable. I just kept showing my wife boats for 3 years until she gave me a thumbs up. Then I made the best of it. Simple.

You used , the wear her out method.

 

[fsarcone]

Soreadsheet

Tough thing to do. So many variables, so many personal requirements.

Good Old Boat magazine does a 3-4 page review of a sailboat followed by a comparison of 2 similar sailboats.That’s just for 1 boat. Look at one of their comparison tables. Good luck.

 

[Bryant]

spreadsheet

Has anyone developed a selection spreadsheet, that you used when evaluating various models, leading to a purchase?

I poked around the web, the only real decent one I found was for sailing cats. I could adapt it.

No, I'm not in the market, helping a friend!

I'm thinking that the features/requirements run down the first column, and then various models have their columns to the right. Giving a score for each requirement.

Requirements would be things like:

Twin Engines
Single engine
bow thruster
stern thruster
washer / dryer
fuel tankage
Engine(s) hours
Flybridge
Location

You get the idea. Maybe three categories of requirements A, B, C. The score that foots out at the bottom of each category will help the future owner make his/her selection.

If you know of one, or built one, please share it here if inclined. Or PM me. Happy to adapt and then share myself.

TIA.

1 engine, unless you are doing serious off shore cruising. Even then, typically what causes a well maintained diesel engine to fail is fuel contamination. If you have that then the second engine will fail right after the first one does. The costs involved vs reliability of diesel engines makes me a 1 engine fan.

2. I don't have thrusters. They would be nice. Backing a single screw boat is a difficult task to learn but not impossible. Then there is the issue of having a hole through the bow and or stern of your boat. External thrusters have their own issues, like grounding. Then there are maintenance issues and the fact that when you need a particular system on a boat, it fails. I'm a believer in simplicity. And then there is the issue of cost. Depends on where you cruise. I'm comfortable with 1 engine and no thruster. Again, depends on how and where you operate.

3. Washer/dryer. Would be great to have if you can afford a boat large enough to house and power them.

4. Fuel. Again, depends on where you are and where you go and how you use the boat. I have 200 gals. Works fine for what I do. If I were cruising long distances between ports then I'd want 400. Unless you are day cruising, under no circumstances would I buy a large boat with gas engines. Especially large ones. You will rue the day if you do.

5. Flybridge. Mandatory

6. Engine hours. A well maintained diesel will run 10,000 hours before needing any serious work. Again, depends on how much you are going to use the boat. If you are going to use your boat 200 hours/year and the boat you are going to buy has 6,000 hours on it, no problem. If you are going to put 500 hours/year on it cruising, then you might want to be in the 2-3k hours range on the boat you are looking at.

7. Location. Not sure what you are asking. I'm on the Gulf Coast of Florida. I've also spent time in So Cal and the PNW. I recommend all 3 although So Cal is very expensive.

 

[CaptGary]

I also did one and scored 1 - 10 on all the basic things, like fuel consumption, assumed maintenance costs (hours on engine, overall condition, number of engines, etc), flybridge, pilothouse, ease of access for maintenance, water access (e.g., swim platform), speed, propane, solar, generator, etc. I also ranked "fuzzy values" like aesthetics, number of stairs/ladders, layout, seaworthiness, etc. It really helped with my decision.

 

[Nickair]

Sounds like a never ending cool project.

 

[OldDan1943]

One can design a spread sheet for any and everything. When it comes to scoring, this where emotions take over.
I had a N46, when it was destroyed I had MANY improvements for creature comfort.
Gotta start somewhere so, the boat had to have 'good bones' and the ability to be upgraded.
Length and beam, enough to satisfied my needs.
I did not have a goal in mind. I wanted it comfortable to live and travel on. The N46 had 2 staterooms and 2 heads and 2 shower stalls. LOL I will admit, the fwd shower stall left a lot to be desired. I had the fwd stateroom rebuilt to include a real hanging closet and more drawer space. That closet made one less argument with the 'then' wife.
What I discovered was, at the time, no one wanted to go with me for more than a few hours. Bad investment on the fwd stateroom rebuild? IMO no. Sure did make the stateroom more usable and take the strain off the original storage space. Shower compartment? That was high on my list because I didn't want to clean the entire head area after I showered. 2 heads, sure why not. I didn't need the guests coming into my SR to use the head while we were asleep. This included 2 holding tanks. They were SW flush so I didn't worry about the decision of drinking water vs fresh water flush. Considering I never had long long term guests, I moved the 2nd SR way down the list, in fact, so far down the list it fell off the list. two heads, nice but, a second door into the stateroom solved the guest problem.
So now, the 'good bones' and the improvements I had added solved most of the problems.
I added a small 12vt 150gpd water maker to keep the tanks full during the course of any cruising. Underway, the engine generator could easily support that water maker.
Electronics, old but very usable I guess because I believed in paper charts. It came with Loran which was all but shutdown. GPS, yes and I did make it from LI, NY to Miami on a basic hand held GPS.
Engine, naturally aspirated, personal choice. It worked or didn't work, easy to trouble shoot. Had a get home, seldom used except to exercise it.
I did upgrade to a 12hp bow thruster after the 3hp one failed to move the bow in the wind.
We are beginning to see, creature comforts are far more important for long distance cruising.
I stepped on boat a AT34, good bones, single SR, a master head that could be used as a day head, separate shower. Added a washer dryer and a good size water maker.
Clicked all the basic boxes. This is basically a single BR apt that can easily be moved great distances.
Do I miss the 2nd SR? Not so much.
I did step onboard the AT41 only because it was available for viewing. It clicked only two additional box, 2nd SR, 2nd head.
No need to make the guest too comfortable, they might never leave.

 

[Juliet 15]

I looked hard at every LRC for sale in the US for about 3 years before settling on one. I can send you my scored and weighted spreadsheet if you shoot me an email. It's in MS Excel and TF doesn't enable upload of .xlsx files.

neildeb2@aol.com