Boarded by NOAA

[rsn48]

If some think they can successfully stand up against a federal agency and be a winner, I have only one request. Make sure some one in your party video's on their phone, I want to see that video.

 

[Boat]

See if I fully understand how this law protects me from myself? With a 200lb halibut you should eat all you can and throw the rest overboard before anyone sees you? Just to be safe? Just don't cut it up, right? Sick.


So it's a little hyperbolic. Keep one piece of fish, right? or two?

 

[markpierce]

So, is the world your oyster?

 

[sbu22]

EPA and the US Dept of Education have SWAT teams - don't see why NOAA should be left out. You're a nobody in the Fed system if your agency doesn't have jets and body armor.

 

[Bajabuzz]

How do the rules apply when you cross into Canada?

Bajabuzz, regarding what Canada might do regarding your Alaska freezer fish as you pass through...I can give you a practical answer but not a technical one on their rule of law. You're asking a good question.

I have never been challenged on this by the Canadians but I've prepared for it as well as possible. Have all your freezer fish bags marked with the date, where caught, and the contents. If halibut or king salmon, record the fish on your license. Record the catch in your log book. Now, a skeptical Canadian officer might say that all that information could just be made up and that the fish were actually caught in Canada. Since the officer couldn't prove that assertion, they probably wouldn't advance it. I've never known any boats being treated unreasonably by the Canadians in this regard bringing fish home, but a fair point to be sure.

Thanks for your reply Ken!
So if your vacuum packed fish are labeled and dated on the inside of the bag do you think you would be allowed to possess limits for AK and BC? Or is that pushing it too far?
And what if you are in possession of a partial halibut. Say 4 of the 6 pieces?
I did read the rules link posted on the first page but this is not addressed.

 

[Ken E.]

...So if your vacuum packed fish are labeled and dated on the inside of the bag do you think you would be allowed to possess limits for AK and BC? Or is that pushing it too far?
And what if you are in possession of a partial halibut. Say 4 of the 6 pieces?
I did read the rules link posted on the first page but this is not addressed

If you have licenses for both Alaska and Canada and the fish are so marked, you are entitled to the possession limits for both countries.

Having pieces of halibut in the freezer is a problem. Remember, the rule for NOAA halibut enforcement purposes is that they require whole ventral and dorsal fillets in possession. Otherwise, they can't determine the number of fish you have. I'd say eat the halibut pieces rather than freeze them. It would just create problems for you.

 

[Bajabuzz]

Thanks for the info on the BC vs USA limits.
I did not make myself very clear about what I was asking regarding fish in the freezer.
So presuming that all pieces are accounted for per the rules (complete fillets) except for say 1 ventral fillet because you ate that one first and the rest went into the freezer. I am assuming that if you posses even only 1 of the 6 parts it would count as a complete fish.
Are the rules the same for rock fish, crab and shrimp?
I admit I did not read the rules for those species, yet.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Thanks for the info on the BC vs USA limits.
I did not make myself very clear about what I was asking regarding fish in the freezer.
So presuming that all pieces are accounted for per the rules (complete fillets) except for say 1 ventral fillet because you ate that one first and the rest went into the freezer. I am assuming that if you posses even only 1 of the 6 parts it would count as a complete fish.
Are the rules the same for rock fish, crab and shrimp?
I admit I did not read the rules for those species, yet.

No as those are enforced under the State, not the Feds.

 

[Trawler Dave]

The idea of a subsistence permit is so ironic we should all choke on it. A permit to feed sugar to children makes more sense. US citizens are quickly becoming an threatened species.


Sure, it's a free country … If you have the corrects permits to breath.

Sure, do away with the permits. Then, in ten years, we won't have to worry about Pacific Halibut at all anymore. Just like Cod on the East Coast, almost non-existent.

 

[ProMaritime]

Talk about micro-management. In Canada you or your fish handler, leaves a one square inch of skin on each fillet so the game wardens can identify the species.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Good morning from Coffman Cove Alaska. I was boarded by NOAA last year. He was nice enough and I passed the attitude test. There was no doubt in my mind that he would turn quickly if I gave him any lip.

My friend was fishing legitimately here on Clarence Straights last year. He would come back to town and clean an pack his fish every day. He loaded up to go back to Ketchikan and was stopped. All of the fish in his freezer was confiscated. The only way according to the officer is to freeze the fillets whole with skin on so they can count the fish. Four fillets equals one fish. Needless to say there were numerous discussions regarding NOAA and boarding boats.

 

[denverd0n]

If a boat is your "Home/place of residence" does not the U.S. Constitution come into play requiring a search warrant.

This applies to the house on 123 street, anytown USA? The Constitution is thrown out because you live on a boat?

I disagree with it, but it's been through the Supreme Court and clearly adjudicated. Even though your boat may be your home, you very definitely do NOT get the same constitutional protections onboard as you would in your home on land.

 

[Exsailor2018]

No sir you can not come on board without a warrant!!!

The only authorities that can board your vessel is the USCG. Anyone else ask for a warrant.

 

[psneeld]

You can ask for a warrant, but I beleive many LEOs can board with "probable cause"....especially fish and game officers.


Seems like states are starting to curb even that but as far as I know many states still give their officers that perogative.

 

[pattormey]

Vessel is a vessel

The problem here is liveaboard status.

You are allowed to keep a unlimited amount of fish in your freezer at home.

You are only allowed to have four Halibut in possession on a boat.

What happens when your home is your boat?

Which rules apply? Are liveaboards not allowed to store fish for the off season like land based folks?

Clearly in the case of Halibut, No.

The fact that you have chosen to live on your boat doesn’t change the rules surrounding your vessel, fishing regulations, nav rules, safety rules, etc.

 

[OldDan1943]

If you insist on a warrant, they may escort you to shore and detain you, your boat and all your passengers until they secure a warrant. That may take a day or longer plus your name goes on that invisible list of "jerks" that suggests you will be detained in the future.
Is it worth the trouble? Your decision.

 

[tpbrady]

My problem with the rule being enforced by NOAA is it was put in place by an international commission (the IPHC) without going through the traditional federal rulemaking process and was not subject to a public comment period. The rule's purpose would seem to be protecting the halibut resource, but its affect on the resource is not measurable as it only impacts fisherman on a boat with fishing tackle. 99% of the sport fishermen are not affected by this rule as they return to shore each day to process their catch. In the case of the person going from Coffman Cove back to Ketchikan, the only mistake was having fishing tackle on board. I wonder if NOAA would stop people leaving Coffman Cove or Thorne Bay with processed halibut on board a float plane with their fishing rods. Technically they are a boat when on the water so in violation. That's how ridiculous this rule can become. In the US the commissioners to the IPHC are appointed by the State Dept. I don't think the State Dept will take comments from someone in Wrangell or anywhere else when it comes to commissioners. One of the US commissioners is a charter captain and lodge owner. I don't know where he stands on this rule, but it might be possible to see what his thoughts are and why it was imposed.

Tom

 

[OldDan1943]

Hmmm, I guess my bags of frozen shrimp and scallops from Publix grocery store are subject to seizer? Good thing I dont have a bag of frozen halibut on board.

 

[psneeld]

A seaplane/floatplane on the water is subject to the Navrules....not sure what other federal vessel ones though.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Aside from NOAA authority for fisheries investigations, the USCG can and does delegate their boarding authority to numerous agencies. Refusing a boarding order from a uniformed law enforcement officer of any agency for a safety inspection or BUI investigation would be an unfortunate way to explore the criminal justice system.

 

[tpbrady]

I can't say I have seen someone fishing for halibut from a floatplane, but I am sure it has happened.

 

[OldDan1943]

The only authorities that can board your vessel is the USCG. Anyone else ask for a warrant.

IMO, that is not the wisest thing for you to do. They may very well detain you while they get their warrant.
If you are VERY lucky, they will explain to you, they do have the authority to board and search your boat. Then, they may take 3 or 4 hours to give your boat a really really good search.

 

[backfin]

Federal Agencies With Police Powers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_law_enforcement_in_the_United_States

 

[psneeld]

I am pretty sure that it is not "police powers" that allow for "safety" or "F&G " or "customs/immigration" inspections...it's the jurisdiction and actual law that allows a boarding at any time or with "probable cause" and no warrant.


In the USCG, federal law grants broad LEO uthority, but agency regulations severely restrict it.

 

[Tator]

This has always been one of our concerns as we live on our boat in SE AK for 4-5 months a year. While we support the goals of NOAA for this program, we agree that the rules make little sense for those of us who live on our boats. We try to take 40-50 lbs of halibut back south every year. We don't go for "trophies" and release anything over 60lbs as they are getting close to breeder size and are too hard to deal with. Prefer in the 15-30 lb. size. Not sure yet how we are going to deal with the new regs. Our approach in the past has been to process. vacuseal and freeze. It would seem that if you kept the skin whole and froze it-perhaps rolled up-you could then match it up to the filets. Or, video the processing and number and date the pieces. I guess if the worst that is going to happen is the taking of the fish, I can live with that as we unload our fish to a friends big freezer on land when we do get to port.

 

[Benthic2]

Sometimes being "right" and being "sensible", are not the same thing. The "you can't board my boat without a warrant" option is going to take an hour and has a very large possible downside ( detainment, confiscation, etc ). The "sure officers, let me get out my fenders" option is going to take a half hour, and doesn't really have a downside if you don't have any contraband on board and your paperwork is legit.

Sure you may be entitled to insist on a warrant...but that doesn't mean its a good idea.

 

[JonM]

TPBrady. Thank you for your post. I too was boarded by NOAA. We lived on our boat for 8 months last year when cited. I subsistence fished from my skiff and caught 1 halibut which I took to a city dock and cut up. I carried the fish on the dock to my liveaboard. A day or so later I left dock towing my skiff and anchored. I went sport fishing in my skiff for salmon and caught 2 chicken halibut. I returned to my live aboard and put fish in freezer. I was cited for having sport and subsistence halibut in my boat freezer which happens to be the only freezer I have. In addition we had just cooked crab and put them on ice. We were about to eat dinner. NOAA told us they had no authority on crab but unloaded our crab on swimstep and handled every piece with their dirty fingers and photographed. Then put them back on ice. I’m thoroughly disgusted with NOAA. I do appreciate their mission. Interesting their posted report has a picture of my fish and a false statement to Halibut commission.

 

[Boat]

Sure, do away with the permits. Then, in ten years, we won't have to worry about Pacific Halibut at all anymore. Just like Cod on the East Coast, almost non-existent.

Subsistence permits? Gotta be kidding. I never even heard of a subsistence permit before this thread and now you're telling me that a few subsistence permits are all that are stopping "the end of the world" for halibut??? Sorry, but it sounds like hyperbole to me.

I saw an ad for charter fishing. Snapper down here in the gulf. $200/hr per person. Six people, six hours, $7200. Maybe the protectioni$m is making more $en$e.

 

[fgarriso]

So 14 USC ,89. gives the right for CG boarding, I have never heard of NOAA boarding. If they have a CG boarding officer aboard, it is basically a CG boarding. I'm sure they have a Federal authority to board, I just have never heard of it. I was an ex CG boarding officer a hundred years ago..

If you have a USCG documented boat I would be very temped to say no thank you to boarding. Please call the Coast Guard for boarding or inspection.

 

[psneeld]

A documented vessel holds no special provisions above state law. If in state waters, LEOs have full jurisdiction, the question is warrant less searches versus jusrisdiction with probable cause versus boarding for regulatory inspection.