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Old 07-10-2020, 01:17 PM   #1
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Blisters

Yes I've read the blister posts.

Hi all. I had my survey on my 1987 CHB 42' Ponderosa Tri-Cabin US$ 77,000*

We're only discussing blisters here as I'll have my survey results Monday.

As some of you "might" remember, I turned down a perfect interior and exterior CHB 34 that was in incredible condition. BUT the boat had thousands of blisters the size of a dime. The price reflected the hull blisters problem as it was listed for only $39,000, (usually around $59,000 for a perfect 34 CHB in my area Seattle). The owner even admitted that he lowered the price solely for the blisters. After doing homework, (including on this site) I REGRET not buying that boat.

Forward to my Survey on Wednesday of a 1987 CHB 42' Ponderosa Tri-Cabin US$ 77,000*

Blisters on this boat were worse than the CHB I turned down. Not only did it have thousands of blisters the size of a dime and nickel, it had about 100 the size of a Tangerine, (a little larger than a silver dollar). NONE LARGER.

My surveyed boat Wednesday had:

Thousands of blisters about .75 inches, (dime to nickel size). To many to count.

Maybe 100 blisters about 1.5 to 2 inches, (silver dollar size).

Note, I will never pay the estimated $30,000 to $35,000 to repair the blisters and hull. Not worth it. And I understand the argument that I might have difficulty selling it in the future.

QUESTIONS:

The hammering on the hull went well although not as aggressive due to the blisters. If everything else in the survey passes with flying colors:

1. Would you buy the boat?

2. If not, why?

3. If yes, would you ask for a "discount" on the price of the boat, $77,000? How much? Or do you think the price already reflects this, (if everything else looks and functions great).

4. I will have the boat moored in Fresh water Fisherman's Terminal Seattle. If needed, does mooring the boat in saltwater harm or help the blisters? Is salt water bad for a blisterd boat?

5. What are the odds that unknowingly I picked the two CHBs with the most blisters ???
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Old 07-10-2020, 01:45 PM   #2
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My boat looked like that.

It wound up having severe hydrolysis and delamination.

If you haven't heard of hydrolysis...your reading was info posted by people who have not done a lot of research on the subject. Even many surveyors are not really up on the subject.

I would not buy the boat without some serious hull testing and coring.

I repaired mine for a few thousand in money and about a million in aggravation.

Here is but a fraction of the problem.
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducatihottie View Post
Yes I've read the blister posts.

Hi all. I had my survey on my 1987 CHB 42' Ponderosa Tri-Cabin US$ 77,000*

We're only discussing blisters here as I'll have my survey results Monday.

As some of you "might" remember, I turned down a perfect interior and exterior CHB 34 that was in incredible condition. BUT the boat had thousands of blisters the size of a dime. The price reflected the hull blisters problem as it was listed for only $39,000, (usually around $59,000 for a perfect 34 CHB in my area Seattle). The owner even admitted that he lowered the price solely for the blisters. After doing homework, (including on this site) I REGRET not buying that boat.

Forward to my Survey on Wednesday of a 1987 CHB 42' Ponderosa Tri-Cabin US$ 77,000*

Blisters on this boat were worse than the CHB I turned down. Not only did it have thousands of blisters the size of a dime and nickel, it had about 100 the size of a Tangerine, (a little larger than a silver dollar). NONE LARGER.

My surveyed boat Wednesday had:

Thousands of blisters about .75 inches, (dime to nickel size). To many to count.

Maybe 100 blisters about 1.5 to 2 inches, (silver dollar size).

Note, I will never pay the estimated $30,000 to $35,000 to repair the blisters and hull. Not worth it. And I understand the argument that I might have difficulty selling it in the future.

QUESTIONS:

The hammering on the hull went well although not as aggressive due to the blisters. If everything else in the survey passes with flying colors:

1. Would you buy the boat?

2. If not, why?

3. If yes, would you ask for a "discount" on the price of the boat, $77,000? How much? Or do you think the price already reflects this, (if everything else looks and functions great).

4. I will have the boat moored in Fresh water Fisherman's Terminal Seattle. If needed, does mooring the boat in saltwater harm or help the blisters? Is salt water bad for a blisterd boat?

5. What are the odds that unknowingly I picked the two CHBs with the most blisters ???

1. Would you buy the boat?
No - I would not

2. If not, why?
Life is too short to select situations where you know you are going to have major issues along the way.

4. I will have the boat moored in Fresh water Fisherman's Terminal Seattle. If needed, does mooring the boat in saltwater harm or help the blisters? Is salt water bad for a blisterd boat?
Typically fresh water brings out the worst in blisters and they typically appear 'better' when in salt water.

If you do continue to consider this boat please figure a plan to make sure there are no structural hull problems now or likely to occur in the future.
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:07 PM   #4
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That looks horrifying. I have watched about 20 videos on YouTube about this problem. Some say if it they haven't grown larger un 34 years, they won't???

The dime sized ones started drying out during the pull out. Some of the larger were firm while others had water when pressed.

We couldn't, "go to town" picking and prodding as it isn't my boat
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:08 PM   #5
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Our boat looked like that when we bought her and took her in for a bottom job. Ten layers of bottom paint. Almost all of the blisters were between the layers of paint. Only a few small blisters were actually into the upper layers of the fiberglass. Maybe it isn't as bad as you fear. How many layers of paint are on it?
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:31 PM   #6
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I do NOT know how many layers of paint. Last bottom paint 8-2019.

Can power washing hurt a boat with this many blisters
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:37 PM   #7
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If the you tube videos did not discuss hydrolysis and delamination.......they were not done by experts.

Power washing isn't going to harm anything, if the damage has already been done....if the glass isn't in bad shape it still wont hurt anything.

A really high powered one close to a blister could peel back the layer of mat under the gel coat and paint....once I could grab an edge, mine would peel easily off by hand.

Admittedly few boats wind up like mine did, but many more are out there and owners dont even know.....the only way you know to even look further is to take all the paint off and see how bad the gel coat is.
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:39 PM   #8
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So has anyone heard of any boat sinking due to blisters?
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:01 PM   #9
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I repaired a boat with blisters nowhere near as bad as that one. It was a lot of work no your knees and back. I couldnít do it again. Our current boat had been peeled and reglassed by the PO. So far no blisters anywhere. The boat in the survey looks pretty bad. If everything else on the boat was good I might place a lowball offer and have the work done by someone experienced in blister repair.
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:23 PM   #10
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I would still runaway.

Let's say you do buy it and get even a $10,000 reduction for blister repair.

You take it to the average yard that will do this type of work....and they strip the hull to gel.

Now they find what I found. Swiss cheese gel.

I highly doubt at that point they will want to proceed with a "blister" repair. So you now have a choice, pay the rest for their recommended repair which I bet will exceed $10K.....or slap on a fresh coat of paint and live with it.

Now you wonder is there delamination from hydrolysis. Because it will get worse through the years, just how bad?

If you let the yard keep investigating and they found what I did, the repair might cost more than the boat.

Not for me.....once was enough.
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:24 PM   #11
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Thanks psneeld. Hoping for additional input from boat owners that had problems like yours with silver dollar size blisters? Or ones that lived with them and NO additional problems.

I'm one that feels if an item is going to break, it usually breaks within a few weeks of buying. Therefore I don't buy warranties. If this boat hasn't sunk in 34 years, will it sink tomorrow


I will not be repairing this. If bought I'll just be living with the fact that I have blisters. Before the consensus was, "don't worry about dime sized blisters". I though have about 100 silver dollar sized ones, (NO PLATE SIZED ONES).


Do you think the owner should have been up front with me like the 34 CHB owner was? This to save me $2000 on survey, engine survey and pull out?
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:27 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ducatihottie View Post
Do you think the owner should have been up front with me like the 34 CHB owner was? This to save me $2000 on survey, engine survey and pull out?
Depends what you asked the owner and/or the broker ahead of time.
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:31 PM   #13
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I suspect the owner believes he has already discounted the price. I would be tempted to get a ballpark estimate of removing 8 layers of paint, repairing 100 blisters, and applying 2 barrier coats to the hull. I would then discount the offer accordingly. The final price might be somewhere in the middle.

Many prior threads have covered this issue. It may be cosmetic, but clearly it impacts resale value. And of course there is always the risk of uncovering severe delamination. Sounds like you already know this so you are an informed consumer.

The owner has no obligation to point out obvious visible defects but clearly he knew about the blisters. What else does he know but isn't sharing? Did he fill the engine with 60W oil to quiet the knock?
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:38 PM   #14
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Some people dont sweat blisters because the internet slogan is " boats dont sink from blisters".

Of course the knowledgable surveyors, yards and others all talk about hydrolysis and the weakening of laminates.

Now, if someone smacks up a boat, virtually everyone here chimes in make darn sure its repaired properly, but its OK to buy a boat with a weakened bottom that will only get worse with time?

Or not worry about it and yell and scream that the same previous owners were so stupid to use wire nuts....

No....I wouldn't expect most boat owners would tell you...they are betting you will watch you tube and then know how easy it is to repair and forget about them.

PS....Its true that most including me haven't ever heard about a boat sinking from blisters, but how many may have has issues from a weakened hull where the boat is never recovered or investigated? I believe the USCG has not given Certificates Of Inspection to passenger vessels who failed hull tests from delamination most likely caused by hydrolysis.
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:41 PM   #15
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I would get a quote to fix it correctly. The people that do it every day don't really care how bad it is. They will shave the entire hull from the boot stripe down. They should be able to give you a pretty good quote without seeing the hull. Adjust you offer down by that amount and see what he counters with. He probably won't eat it all but he may go half or three fourths. Remember that the asking price is probably 10-20% more than what he will take for it. I don't know what the repair would cost but I would lean toward offering $50,000. If he accepted the offer I wouldn't repair the blisters. I'll bet 99.9% of boats that age have them that haven't been skinned and barrier coated. Being blister free doesn't make a boat worth more just easier to sell.
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:42 PM   #16
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Brian,
Sorry for your problems with this potential purchase. My advice, listen to PSneeld!!
He has been through this and mentions how potentially large a problem this can be.

I know you don't like the idea of spending money and then walking away, however, if this turns out to be the "large problem" it will cost you lots of money now, and maybe even more when you TRY to resell at some point. If you can't resell, then you will have to pay to have the boat "recycled".

I have no first hand experience with blisters, but that looks really bad, and WILL impact any future sale.

In my opinion, this should have been disclosed to you before you paid for a survey etc. It is obvious, and any surveyor would have to report this.

What advise did your surveyor give? How bad did he say it was? In his opinion, how will this affect a resale later?
Unless the surveyor was saying things like "no big deal", doesn't affect value, won't affect a resale, etc. (and I doubt he did), I would definitely NOT BUY THIS BOAT. What else is the owner not telling you?????
Sorry.
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Old 07-10-2020, 03:59 PM   #17
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We have a 1988 CHB Present 42' Sundeck - basically the same boat. Bought it two yrs ago and saw a few blisters at survey. My broker raised a fuss and got the price down. Later I had it hauled for a bottom paint job (by me). Had a marking pen to mark the bilsters before they shrank back - wound up with about 40, mostly small but, but several quarter sized ones. Ground them all out - none were very deep. Packed them with backing powder, and let them sit/drain for several weeks. Filled them with filler, painted two coats of barrier coat on them, and painted the bottom with Micron CSC. Very little cost, just my time.
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Old 07-10-2020, 04:03 PM   #18
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Zanheisers Marinas do this kind of repair regularly and in my research seem to agree with the top tier experts.

Here is a tidbit from a study they did..

"In real life, we are starting to see failures in hull bottoms we think are directly related to
hydrolysis damage to laminate resin. In six separate cases, we have seen serious, though
the hull fractures at the keel roots on fin keeled sail boats. In each case, the laminate resin
was severely hydrolyzed. We have seen two cases of laminate fracture across bulkhead
hard spots in two powerboats which we thought were related to hydrolysis of the laminate
resin. The good news is that eight boats is not a lot of boats, but consider that these are
only the ones that we have seen. Surely there are more out there and surely there have
been boats lost for these reasons as well. Accident investigation on sunk boats is not like
aircraft crash investigation. Unless the boat is in the way, it is usually not raised and the
cause of sinking investigated. "
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Old 07-10-2020, 04:34 PM   #19
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I never met the owner so he didn't inform me of the blisters. Maybe the owner didn't tell the broker?

"What else does he know but isn't sharing?". This worries me as well.


"What did the surveyor say "? Cale Mathers was my surveyor and spent 10 hours on the boat with me? (HE ROCKS)! But he won't truly give me advice on buying or not buying from the blisters alone. We'll get into the rest of his report on Monday when I get it.

It was the broker that informed me of the CHB 34 blisters and why the boat was discounted.
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Old 07-10-2020, 04:41 PM   #20
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Ok this scared me, " I believe the USCG has not given Certificates Of Inspection to passenger vessels who failed hull tests from delamination most likely caused by hydrolysis"

What??

And my new friend Psneeld is discussing boats that have sunk!
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