Blisters

[BruceK]

.... Say you finance a boat. Then a year later your insurance cancels your policy for some reason.
Since you need insurance for the loan, what will the bank do? Has anyone had this happen to their boat, maybe their home or car....

You can usually change insurers, if one dumps a particular area of insurance others know, and may happily pick up the business. They usually want to know why you were declined cover elsewhere,in this case it should be fine.

 

[Ducatihottie]

Thanks Bruce.

Was the boat being financed? What did the bank require of you?

My question being, what does the bank do you can't find someone to insure the boat? Or if the insurance is to costly. Will they take your boat?

 

[BruceK]

Thanks Bruce.

Was the boat being financed? What did the bank require of you?

My question being, what does the bank do you can't find someone to insure the boat? Or if the insurance is to costly. Will they take your boat?

It hasn`t happened to me.
If it`s a term of the loan you keep it insured and you don`t,I suppose they`d call in the loan. Banks have their own backup cover which kicks in to cover houses they lent on if the owner fails to keep it covered, probably boats too.It`s their cover, not yours.
You could be worrying too much, it`s possible you could be left without cover but unlikely there would be no alternative insurer. Sometimes insurers get tough on the age of boats they will cover. I heard the buyer of my last boat was asked to do the repairs before cover was incepted, on my "new" younger one they(a specialist marine underwriter) wanted to know if things were being done. Though interestingly they called the Surveyor direct to discuss the Survey!

 

[Ducatihottie]

Thanks again Bruce.

Work is my stress, knee deep in this COVID-19 mess. So all of my questions are simply curiosity.

Just wondering what happens if you can't get insurance AFTER you get a loan and took ownership of the boat?

I was told once like you mentioned the bank will insure you, just at an godly high rate.. What happens if you refuse to pay.their high rate?

Or if you just refuse to get insurance? Can they take your boat? Poof you're now out of a boat and you still owe the bank?

 

[BruceK]

I'm not worried at all. Just wondering what happens if you can't get insurance.....

If insuring is a term of the loan and you can`t/don`t, you`re in default, they have their remedies. Now stop chasing every rabbit you see down its burrow, there are sick people who need you .

 

[psneeld]

Communicate with Pau Hana (a member here) who is one of our insurance experts. Apologies to others who I have not dealt with...please post more!

He was almost sure he could get me liability, pollution and salvage for my 1988 Albin if I could not get hull insurance. Those 3 types of insurance would cover most issue to worry about except losing the money you have tied up in the boat...but guess what?

Some policies deduct salvage from hull insurance anyhow unless you pay extra. So after a sinking or fire, good chance you dont have much left anyhow if your insured value was not a lot to begin with.

 

[Donna]

This boat I would walk away from. There are way too many boats on the market to choose from.

I purchased my boat with about 20 dime size surface blisters. It was such a bargain that it didn’t matter. I took it to my yard, (charlton knowels marina in Freeport Bahamas) albeit a long trip from my home port in Florida where it was sanded down repaired and bottom painted for less than 5k. That was 3 1/3 years ago. My divers say my hull is in excellent shape.

A few surface blisters? No problem. Thousands with some the size of a tangerine? Big problem for me.

 

[psneeld]

Often the big blisters are only paint or lifted, thin gel.

A moisture meter the hands of less that experts , is the solution to determining hull moisture and blistering is a myth.

Again please dont take me wrong, the vast majority of biats out there are fine, even with a few blisters.

But like cancer, you just dont know by looking, sometimes extensive testing is required. And simple tests like moisture meters, tappings, etc may or not take you to the next step that really determines what is going on.

The problem with buying a boat us, you aren't going to get to the more accurate tests till you own it. So at least start off with the fewest symptoms and boat history.

From my experience, boats that live in warm water all year (like south Florida canals), that rarely get pulled out for paint and inspection and have lots of water in the bilge.....seem to have a higher incidence of hydrolysis than others. Not science, just my observation. Science does agree with the temperature affecting rate of chemical reaction.

 

[GH41]

Thanks again Bruce.

Work is my stress, knee deep in this COVID-19 mess. So all of my questions are simply curiosity.

Just wondering what happens if you can't get insurance AFTER you get a loan and took ownership of the boat?

I was told once like you mentioned the bank will insure you, just at an godly high rate.. What happens if you refuse to pay.their high rate?

Or if you just refuse to get insurance? Can they take your boat? Poof you're now out of a boat and you still owe the bank?

You are confused... It isn't your boat until it's paid for in full. It's the banks boat. They can do whatever the contract you signed and the state allows them to do. Around here they chain the boat to the dock with no trespassing signs plastered allover it. If you step foot on it after that point you will be dealing with the sheriffs department. You will be a criminal. Eventually they will sell the boat at auction. They don't care what it is worth or how much equity you lose. The more you talk the more it sounds like you don't need a boat.

 

[Ducatihottie]

Thanks GH41, I am confused. But everyone is a first time boat owner at least once in there lives. Your patience to answer even stupid questions help us. Plus this thread on blisters brought up insurance issues unknown to me. Again thanks.

 

[BandB]

At this point you know nothing as to the severity of the blister problem. It could be anywhere from bad to horrible. You'd have to get a yard to quote you a worst case scenario and deduct that to have a reasonable price. If the seller is convinced the blister problem is minor then he should have them fixed. To get into a huge unknown is scary to me and intolerable unless I have maximum financial protection. Now, I'd still wait to see the surveyor report.

Rule of thumb: When in doubt, don't. The best deals you make are often those you don't make.

 

[firehoser75]

Good advice BandB! Especially for someone who states they are not only a first time buyer, but that they don't know much about boats, won't be doing much of any work required themselves, and don't need additional "stress" in their lives (especially now with the work they do).

From that background info and the little we know so far of the survey, to me way, way, way too much doubt, aggravation, unknown costs, time to repair, and stress for me! Maybe you are a gambler and like risk? But it is your decision.

 

[moparharn]

Ducatti,

Let this one go. Why? You are not likely to fully understand the extent of the issue until you are the new owner. I inquired on a Cheoy Lee that has received and extensive blister repair-grinding, glass work, fairing, epoxy coating, bottom paint. It blistered again in a few years. If you do not get all the moisture out, or the base structure is delaminated or damaged, you could be paying all over again and probably much more than the first go round. Like others have stated- certain problems are what they are and the process and cost to fix is well established. This is not so with blisters. You will find a good boat if you take your time and stick to certain principles. There is no better source of information than what you are getting here. Diverse and long established. Your time is valuable, spend it finding the right boat and not repairing the wrong one. Overhead work at my age is no longer possible. It is grueling work. Good luck. Bill

 

[Ducatihottie]

Thanks to all and the last 3 posts.

"extensive blister repair-grinding, glass work, fairing, epoxy coating, bottom paint. It blistered again in a few years".

That it blistered again THAT SOON is troubling.

The estimate from the Fiberglass Expert that inspected my Hull from CSR marina in Seattle just came in. But the re blistering mentioned above sounds drastic.

 

[firehoser75]

Well , at least you now have an "estimate" of the cost to repair. Please, for your own sake, use that info (realizing it is just an estimate and not a guarantee of actual end cost or "effectiveness"), the final survey info, and all of the advice given here to help with your decision regarding this boat.

I still lean toward what I said in post #42 due mainly to what you told us about yourself. I don't know what the experts are saying who you have contacted and/or their actual "expertise", so I say that coming from a position with only partial info.
Also, as a caveat, I am not a gambler, especially when it comes to large items like my life, health, or large financial investments (like a boat).
Good luck.

 

[PMF1984]

Moparharn is right about the process. The paint has to be removed then the “bad stuff” has to be ground off. How much bad stuff depends on what they find. If layers of glass need to be removed, they need to be replaced.

Then the hull has to be smoothed out (faired).

Then an epoxy seal coat (actually somewhere between 3 and 6 coats depending on the product). Then the bottom paint. This is a 10,000 plus job. And you really want to dry out the hull before you reglass.

Keep looking. That survey did what it was supposed to do, find the problems.

But if you love the boat, make an offer. Something like “the cost of a fixed boat will be xxxxx.” That’s what escrow accounts are for. What goes to the current owner verses what goes to the boatyard is dependent on hull condition and cost of repairs.

It doesn’t help you if it’s a straight up sale as the “discounted” asking price discount may only be 50% of the cost to fix.

 

[koliver]

Before I bought my present boat I took one to survey, listened to the surveyor when he told me to walk away. That was likely the best money I had spent to that date.

 

[ranger58sb]

But if you love the boat, make an offer. Something like “the cost of a fixed boat will be xxxxx.” That’s what escrow accounts are for. What goes to the current owner verses what goes to the boatyard is dependent on hull condition and cost of repairs.

Piggybacking on that... IF I were going to take a chance on a boat like this (and I wouldn't, on this one)...

I'd want to have the repairs done myself. Not something I'd trust the seller to get done to my satisfaction.

He might, of course, and I'm not trying to impugn his honor or anything... just that I would feel better if the repair process were in my hands, not the seller's.

-Chris

 

[mvweebles]

As a guy who has owned a boat with a couple hundred blisters for over 20 years, I always get a kick out of discussions like these. There are a half dozen ways people get worked up about blisters. I don't care. I received a healthy survey credit for them when I purchases the boat and would pass it on if I don't get them repaired (which I am doing as we speak).

If blisters raise your blood pressure, don't buy a fiberglass boat. As an early response said, boats don't sink due to blisters. Biggest downside I know to having blisters is when I'm in the yard, the number of people who walk up and say "hey, you've got blisters!"

No opinion on whether OP should buy or walk away. If he's looking for a screaming deal, chances are the blisters are a good wedge for negotiations. Just plan on passing the credit forward

Peter

 

[psneeld]

The real experts generally agree you cant dry out a hull, if you even try, heat and vacuum are needed and that is into the tens of thousands without even the repair. The real solution is remove the wet laminates. Even peeling is not the best. Grinding till dry is the best but leaves an expensive jog of laminating and fairing due to the now uneven hull. But it's the best practice which I did....and now 9 years later, not a blister.

I ground off or peeled off garbage cans full of crap glass in October, after a warm winter in Jersey, by April when I started again...even the next layer of glass was still dripping water...letting a boat dry that is saturated is total BS. read the experts, not the hacks..

Any estimate till, all the paint is off the bottom is a wild guess or the maximum they expect. The better the yard at total bottom jobs is a beginning, but they will be honest and tell you they just cant guarantee anything till they dig into it.

 

[Ducatihottie]

From CSR Marina in Seattle. Use a media blaster to strip down to the gell coat, then take off the gel coat.

What's a media blaster?

 

[BruceK]

"Media" is the material used to clean the hull. Usually "soda" particles here, but can be something else like sand. Object is to clean everything off to reveal defects and be ready to start opening them up and repairing. Once the gel coat(outer layer) is removed and repairs done it needs replacing with layers of epoxy if not rebuilt with glass layers.The other method I know of is "peeling" by using a shaver.
I concur with the issue raised above, even after a major repairs blisters can reappear. Once you have it, very hard to be rid of it.

 

[BandB]

Just don't overlook that on things like this it is your personal level of tolerance and risk.

 

[Ducatihottie]

Can't seem to see anything positive here. The one person that said he had no problem only had a couple hundred blisters. There's thousands on this boat.

 

[Comodave]

If there are that many I would pass. I have done blister repair on a boat that had quite a few blisters and it worked out fine. But it had nowhere near thousands of blisters. I know that it is a PITA but better out now than get into a pit when you go to try and fix it. Unless the seller is prepared to give the boat away...

 

[BruceK]

Did you share anywhere the CSR Report you mention? It`s good you have an expert report to guide you, as well as opinions here. Experience here inevitably varies, but some of us have been through dealing with repairs and or recurrences. Ultimately of course your decision.
What if anything is the prospective insurer saying after reading the reports?That could be a consideration.

 

[HiDHo]

See if the owner will share expenses for a test. The test would be 1 or 2 foot square representative area of the blistered hull. Haul out and have the test area bead or sand blasted. This should answer the paint blister question. Years ago I used a welder that had a portable unit mounted on his work truck, he did my 28’ full keel sailboat hull for $300.

 

[mvweebles]

Can't seem to see anything positive here. The one person that said he had no problem only had a couple hundred blisters. There's thousands on this boat.

I was the one positive one. And it was more of a reserved positive. If blisters freak you out, don't buy a fiberglass boat. There may be a point where too many is too many, but in the end, you will pass on a lot of boats if blisters are a deal killer.

Don't bother with testing. Don't bother with repair quotes. The asking price is likely not high enough for you and the seller to find a compromise given the advice you are receiving. He likely feels the boat is priced accordingly with the blisters. You're getting advice that will lead to a $20k correction or more. Ain't happening. Move on. And decide how you feel about blisters.

In my opinion, as someone who has owned two Willards, a manufacturer with a history of blister formation, and as 20-year moderator of the Willard Boat Owners group with about 600 members and 200 owners, and the prior owner of a 1975 Uniflite 42 ACMY, a company that was bankrupted by blister claims by New boat owners, it is my opinion that 90% of the information in threads like these is ill-informed and armchair hysterics. Blisters are a problem, but they are not the end of the world. Leaking fuel tanks is the end of the world. Blisters? Meh.

Move on to something else. There is no deal for the OP in this boat.

Peter

 

[moparharn]

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/maintenance/eliminate-osmotic-blisters-your-hull

https://www.yachtsurvey.com/BlisterRepairFail.htm

This is some interesting reading. Some members of the forum think Pascoe is over rated and some think he is the man. Nothing you read is going to change the reality of there being a big project ahead that may not address fully your needs.

I will leave it alone from here as enough has been said. Blisters are repaired all the time. Blisters reappear often. I am not aware of a boat hull failing from blisters. All that repair will not likely result in a stronger hull. Sooooo.......why take the noose off of his head and place it on yours? I could see it if you are getting a BIG discount and you like hard work and have patience for mixed results. Bill

 

[smitty477]

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/maintenance/eliminate-osmotic-blisters-your-hull

https://www.yachtsurvey.com/BlisterRepairFail.htm

This is some interesting reading. Some members of the forum think Pascoe is over rated and some think he is the man. Nothing you read is going to change the reality of there being a big project ahead that may not address fully your needs.

I will leave it alone from here as enough has been said. Blisters are repaired all the time. Blisters reappear often. I am not aware of a boat hull failing from blisters. All that repair will not likely result in a stronger hull. Sooooo.......why take the noose off of his head and place it on yours? I could see it if you are getting a BIG discount and you like hard work and have patience for mixed results. Bill

We had blisters repaired correctly on our boat and they did not come back in the 8+ seasons after the repair.

Fact is dented cars can be had for less money, homes with stained and faded surfaces can be had for less money, and boats with hulls and topsides with stains and worn gelcoat can be had for less money.
Its just the way it is.