Bleach and water tanks

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I had to read Peggy's post a couple of times as I got confused as well. Use 1 gallon of SOLUTION (meaning the mix of bleach and water) per 5 gallons not 1 gallon of bleach per 5 gallons water..
 
1/4 cup is 2 ounces

Oops...you're right. A typo in my reply to DCMonk. Fortunately it's correct in the instructions...or maybe it isn't. 'Cuz now I'm not sure where the typo is...in my reply to him or in the instructions--whether it should have been 1/2 cup/4 oz.

I first found the instructions in the owners manual for a 1985 34' Sea Ray Sundancer my late husband and I bought in 1989 and saved 'em to my files. That was several computers and at least three MS Office versions ago and a lot of copy/pasting since. And I don't even remember who told me it works out to 1 qt bleach/50 gal water tank capacity, but it's what I've used successfully without harm to the system for 25 years...and 1/2 cup/4 oz-5 gal water does come out a lot closer to that than 1/4 cup does.

Peggie
 
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To expand on the water tank thread...
I spent the bulk of my working career as a Master Plumber, I received certification for Water Quality Ass'n training in water treatment, so I've seen my share of ugly water. Still, I find it unusual and a bit amusing that most folks will drink water from a tap without giving it a second thought - it comes out of a spigot, it's OK. BUT.... Same water goes to the hose bibb on the dock, and into a tank on their boat, and suddenly, it's contaminated with everything from plague to festering bacteria. Or just funky!

I've seen posts where folks describe pouring *gallons* of Clorox into their tanks to sterilize them; some boaters refuse to drink the water from their tanks for fear of contracting some dread bacterial infection so instead, schlepp gallons of water in 12 oz bottles aboard and deal with the storage and trash in order to be "safe". There is a lot of misconception regarding water on board, and there's plenty of misinformation out there that helps fuel the fire (and sell product!)

You absolutely can get sick from ingesting contaminated water, girardia, coliform; those and a host of other bacterial & viral agents can be present in water, and they *can* make you ill. The good news is, they're relatively fragile, and rudimentary measures are proven effective at eliminating potential contamination. Additionally, the bulk of the water available to us comes from municipal water supplies; they are required by Fed & State law to provide water that meets standards of potability, and there are very few water suppliers who do not maintain rigorous procedures to insure those standards are met. Water quality is the first line of defense in maintaining public health, and those involved in that endeavor take pride in their part of that process. We take for granted that the water delivered to our tap is of good quality, and that's a relatively safe assumption. Stories of sickness as a result of contaminated public water supplies are almost nonexistent. With that in mind, we can safely presume that public water we tank is pathogen-free. (Oh, yes, I saw the story about brain-eating amoeba in a fire hydrant, so dogs pee on them too. You drink from a fire hydrant? Click bait!)

Water that starts off clean doesn't spontaneously "go bad" nor can it mysteriously become infested with bacteria- without a source for that contamination. For all intents, clean water put into a clean tank and a clean system will stay that way. Indefinitely. There's no real need to continue to disinfect water that's already disinfected, although public water contains an amount of "free chlorine" that is available to disinfect additional contamination that may be encountered beyond the initial disinfection. So given those parameters, we really need only to insure that our on board system is clean. To do that, we can perform an initial disinfection. Initial is key, provided we accept the premise that clean water stays clean.

To disinfect a system, a basic rule of thumb to shock disinfect with chlorine indicates we need to bring the chlorine concentration to about 50 ppm. Clorox contains 5.25% chlorine, so do a bit of math.

For a 100 gallon tank, multiply 100gal. x 50 ppm -> 100 X (50/1,000,000) = .005 gal.
So we need to add .005 gal of chlorine.
Household bleach (Clorox) is typically 5.25% chlorine, so 1 gallon of Clorox = 0.0525 gallon of chlorine.
For our 100 gallon system, .005gal/0.0525= 0.09524 gallons of bleach. That converts to ~ 12 oz. So, 1-1/2 cup of Clorox is needed to create a concentration of 50 ppm in 100 gal.
Contact time for a 50 ppm concentration is 6 hrs. For 24 hrs. contact time, the concentration can be reduced to 10 ppm, or for 100 gal. tank, a dose of 4 oz. Clorox.

These are conservative concentrations, meaning they're already overkill. More isn't necessarily better - enough is enough! Higher concentrations won't make the bugs more dead, it'll only complicate the flushing and rinsing of the system. Once the tank is disinfected, it should be flushed & rinsed with clean water, then it's ready to use. A carbon taste & odor filter installed in the main supply line downstream of the pump will remove any remaining chlorine taste, and help with keeping the water fresh tasting and enable you to dispense with the plastic bottles. Once the tank is disinfected, there's no need to routinely disinfect it other than perhaps an annual preventive shock. So *keeping* tanks suitable for domestic use simply involves filling them with clean water and using it!
 
the bulk of the water available to us comes from municipal water supplies; they are required by Fed & State law to provide water that meets standards of potability
There are literally thousands of water systems currently operating for years, 10% of the public ones, while cited for violations of those standards, and enforcement efforts have been declining.

Like 18 out of the 120 most populated cities

wrt just lead and copper rule, 5,000 water systems are in violation, EPA has the resources to take action in under 2% cases*- and that does not mean they get fixed.

20-40+ million US citizens are exposed to water which violates health standards on any given year.

Not something that worries me personally, but let's face it, a very large % of tge US population lives in what we would consider tgird world conditions.

Not an area where deregulation helps, and not where increased infrastructure dollars are planned, beyond window dressing.
 
Not something that worries me personally, but let's face it, a very large % of tge US population lives in what we would consider tgird world conditions.

As the Gipper said, "There he goes again."
 
Once the tank is disinfected, there's no need to routinely disinfect it other than perhaps an annual preventive shock.

Which is exactly what I've recommended--and done-- for decades.

So *keeping* tanks suitable for domestic use simply involves filling them with clean water and using it!

The recommissioning process I found a few decades ago doesn't deal only with the tank, but also with the plumbing. It's not meant to purify water in the tank...as you noted that's rarely necessary. But--as made clear in the instructions, " It may be used in a new system a used one that has not been used for a period of time, or one that may have been contaminated (and quite a few boats do leave the country and can take on questionable water)...iow, RECOMMISION the entire system including the plumbing, which just treating the water in the tank can't do. However, fresh water plumbing can grow a whole bunch of molds, fungi and non-pathogenic bacteria that make the water taste and smell "funky" but are harmless. Recommissioning gets rid of 'em.
 
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Great post Steve.

IIRC, if you want to shorted the disinfection time to 3 hours, then you need about 200ppm. That gets back to the initial 1 quart/50gal household bleach that was mentioned above. If my math is correct, that gives you about 262 ppm.

I do think that there is definitely a place for adding bleach to the tanks on filling depending on your water use. During the summer months when we are using the boat a lot more, and taking more showers, we go through the tanks pretty quickly. During the winter months we don’t go through the water as quickly. Then I will add bleach to the tanks to keep the level of free chlorine up.

In my area, the level of free chlorine at the tap ranges from .05 to .3 ppm. Not sure what it is at the end of the marina dock, but likely less as the water sits longer. I typically add 1 tsp bleach to about 50+ gal of water. This adds roughly 1.3 ppm, so if you add another .2 ppm from the tap, then that is still only 1.5 ppm to begin with. Over time, the concentration will decrease.
 
Dave,
Why do you see a problem with the chlorine level decreasing? The chlorine has already done its job and killed any bacteria in the tank. It's not like a swimming pool where contaminants are added constantly, and free chlorine is required all the time.
No need to add more chlorine to your drinking water unless you add more bacteria.
 
Dave,
Why do you see a problem with the chlorine level decreasing? The chlorine has already done its job and killed any bacteria in the tank. It's not like a swimming pool where contaminants are added constantly, and free chlorine is required all the time.
No need to add more chlorine to your drinking water unless you add more bacteria.

IMO... It is good to add a touch of chlorine [bleach in a bottle] in every second to third tank fill up for preventative maintenance against bacteria and other items. Depending on whether or not tank water is used for drinking would weigh heavily on how much and how often chlorine is added.
 
rather than random clorine adding, testing seem in order to make sure if you are getting treated municipal water, it remains slightly clorinated.

my friend who is a municipal water engineer uses a simple pool clorine test kit.

ANY trace of chlorine is OK in his book, anything more really isnt necessary or desired, especially for those of us who drink from our tanks.
 
When one is going to be gone all winter, there is something called "red pop" used to decommission you FW system for an extended period of time. I have never used it. One advantage to "red pop" is you know when you have flushed the tank and water lines enough, color gone.
Some folks with aluminum FW tanks use a non-chlorine bleach. You can buy this peroxide based non-bleach at Publix, in a jug. I may start using that to lengthen the life of the water tank for the next owner.
Remember to flush out your water hose from the dock too.
I drink, shower, wash clothes and dishes, use it in 'throne.' with the water in the FW tank. My main filter is on the dock and I have a filter under the sink in the galley. I guess it is recommended to use a charcoal based filter there. I do not have a strainer to the inlet for the FW pump.
 
Dave,
Why do you see a problem with the chlorine level decreasing? The chlorine has already done its job and killed any bacteria in the tank. It's not like a swimming pool where contaminants are added constantly, and free chlorine is required all the time.
No need to add more chlorine to your drinking water unless you add more bacteria.



Not a problem per se, but keep in mind that chlorine disinfects, it does not sterilize. The difference is that disinfection doesn’t really kill off all the bacteria nor take out all the spores. A small residual chlorine amount takes care of them. Since your tank also has a vent, that is a route for contamination. That is why public water systems aim for .2-.5 ppm of free chlorine at the tap. The water is disinfected at the plant, but needs to stay that way until delivered to the customer.

Most recommendations for private systems with stored water are for free chlorine of about 1 ppm.
 
rather than random clorine adding, testing seem in order to make sure if you are getting treated municipal water, it remains slightly clorinated.

my friend who is a municipal water engineer uses a simple pool clorine test kit.

ANY trace of chlorine is OK in his book, anything more really isnt necessary or desired, especially for those of us who drink from our tanks.


I think this is a good idea and I would agree that if a pool kit can detect it, it is probably adequate.
 
So, all this detail aside, any first hand knowledge on bad Municipal dock water? Mexico - I could fill a page or two of Montezuma's revenge tales.
 
Are there any special issues with fiberglass water tanks? We're also bottled water users and getting tired of dealing with all the plastic jugs. My concern is not critters but chemicals that might be leaching out of the 1975 vintage fiberglass. Our tank is built in to the keel so made of the same stuff as the hull and not a free standing tank.

I think a good filter plumbed in under the galley sink should let us break the bottle habit but would like some encouragement.
 
Are there any special issues with fiberglass water tanks? We're also bottled water users and getting tired of dealing with all the plastic jugs. My concern is not critters but chemicals that might be leaching out of the 1975 vintage fiberglass. Our tank is built in to the keel so made of the same stuff as the hull and not a free standing tank.

I think a good filter plumbed in under the galley sink should let us break the bottle habit but would like some encouragement.

Have you considered replacing the water tank with either aluminum or stainless or plastic?
 
fiberglass with gel coat interior more than 10 years old is probably as inert as anything else on the planet.I would prefer a gel surface for cleaning, but plain polyester is probably fine.

I would consider changing to plastic or aluminum as downgrading.

I would still send it through a 2 or 3 stage filtration to drink, but for wverything ekse...no big deal.
 
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Are there any special issues with fiberglass water tanks? We're also bottled water users and getting tired of dealing with all the plastic jugs. My concern is not critters but chemicals that might be leaching out of the 1975 vintage fiberglass. Our tank is built in to the keel so made of the same stuff as the hull and not a free standing tank.

I think a good filter plumbed in under the galley sink should let us break the bottle habit but would like some encouragement.

I don't know, but I really doubt that you would face any harmful level of chemicals off that old fiberglass tank. I wouldn't hesitate to drink the water from your tanks.
 
Have you considered replacing the water tank with either aluminum or stainless or plastic?

Why? We have two, ~150 gallon fiberglass tanks on our Krogen and the water is totaly tasteless. We’ve never added chlorine. Maybe once a year I take a hose with a spray nozzle and clean the insides just for pierce of mind but that’s it. A lot of our water system to the taps is copper so I don’t know if that helps?

Many major and recognized boat builders have used fiberglass tanks with no reported health issues for years.
 
The above, with a few exceptions, ignore the water tank material. We have aluminum FW tanks. I collected a sample from our FW tanks and submitted it, under chain of custody, to a certified laboratory. We had the laboratory analyze for the presence or absence of metals as well as standard drinking water parameters. Aluminum came back above National Drinking Water Standards. As a result, we don’t drink water from our FW tanks.

Collecting and submitting a water sample to a laboratory is cheap! Test for “drinking water quality” and add metals to the analysis. Then make a decision whether to use it for drinking. My two cents.
 
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