Bilge pumps & float switches

[Easternshore]

My new to me Beneteau Flyer 12 has manually operated bilge pumps, no float switches. That makes me nervous.

My bilge pumps are 12v Whale Gulper 220s mounted away in a separate mechanical pump room containing all pumps, hot water heater, etc. As these are relatively slow pumps, at 3.5 gpm, perhaps they should be called Whale Sippers.

I’m more comfortable with higher capacity bilge pumps thus perhaps a better route would be adding something such as Rule 1500 or 2000 pumps fore & aft with their own float switches and leaving the original manual pumps as they are.

The new pump discharge lines could “T-ed” into the existing overboard thru hulls with check valves to prevent pumping back into the original pump vs new holes etc. Naturally the new pumps would have their own breakers, float switches, manual switches, etc.

In the past with prior boats (all sail boats) I’ve used both electronic and mechanical switches with similar results. Was about to go with typical a Rule 40A or Attwood 4201 enclosed switch but thought I’d also consider an electronic switch like the Johnson electromagnetic switch.

As always I’d appreciate any advice and input from TF regarding my quandary and thinking or lack of thinking.

Regards, Ed

 

[Comodave]

Johnson pumps have been good for me in the past. I would not T into the existing through hull and use check valves. That is asking for trouble. Put in new through hulls, 1 for each bilge pump. I am amazed the manufacturer didn’t put in any high capacity pumps.

 

[Brooksie]

Groco 108 switch is the best

 

[Comodave]

Wow, I just looked up the Whale pumps you have. They are only 3.7 GPM or 222 GPH. Those are way undersized.

 

[Easternshore]

Groco 108 switch is the best

Thank you Brooksie.

 

[Easternshore]

Wow, I just looked up the Whale pumps you have. They are only 3.7 GPM or 222 GPH. Those are way undersized.

Interesting that the surveyor didn’t pick up on that, I certainly missed it. The boat is a Beneteau, French, built in France; evidently they felt it more important to include Beneteau branded dinnerware and flatware service for 6 rather than properly sized bilge pumps.

 

[Comodave]

Surveyors miss a lot of stuff. No way they can catch everything but that surely should have been caught.

 

[Mako]

Those Gulpers should be good for sucking out the small pool of remaining water in your bilge, after the new big-boys discharge the bulk. That little bit of water in the discharge line, which flows back.

Ditto #2 post. There's another thread right now on the subject and many of us have had bad experience with Rule float switches. Johnson seems to be getting higher remarks.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Groco 108 switch is the best

Groco 108?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. E. Whatever high capacity pumps and switches you end up with, make every attempt to mount them in a readily accessible location with separate discharges (T's and anti back flow valves are NOT a good idea-Post #2).
I would also suggest a separate "high level" alarm and associated pump if possible. Like fenders and lines...can't have too many IMO.

 

[Easternshore]

Those Gulpers should be good for sucking out the small pool of remaining water in your bilge, after the new big-boys discharge the bulk. That little bit of water in the discharge line, which flows back.



Ditto #2 post. There's another thread right now on the subject and many of us have had bad experience with Rule float switches. Johnson seems to be getting higher remarks.

Thanks Mako, I appreciate the input. I certainly don’t want to make a mistake by doing it wrong.

Admiral asked me about a Christmas list, looks as if it’ll be bilge pumps & float switches!

 

[Easternshore]

Greetings,
Mr. E. Whatever high capacity pumps and switches you end up with, make every attempt to mount them in a readily accessible location with separate discharges (T's and anti back flow valves are NOT a good idea-Post #2).
I would also suggest a separate "high level" alarm and associated pump if possible. Like fenders and lines...can't have too many IMO.

Thanks and I agree. Initially I was looking for some alternative to drilling holes through her new Awlgrip finish, but Ts & check valves does sound a bit of a “Rube Goldberg” machine.

 

[rslifkin]

Thanks and I agree. Initially I was looking for some alternative to drilling holes through her new Awlgrip finish, but Ts & check valves does sound a bit of a “Rube Goldberg” machine.

Drilling holes starts out scary, but as soon as you test fit the new fitting into the hole and realize it'll be appropriately plugged, etc. it gets a lot better.



To avoid chipping and damaging the paint, put some painter's tape over the spot you're drilling. Drill through the tape. And run the hole saw backwards for the first bit to wear through the paint and into the fiberglass with the back side of the teeth, then switch directions and drill the rest of the way through. Same trick applies to the drill bit for the pilot hole. The combination of tape and not running the cutting edge of the bit / hole saw into the surface keeps chipping and such to a minimum so you won't get any that the edges of the fitting won't hide.

 

[Comodave]

When you go to drilling the holes for the new discharge hoses a neat trick I use is to take 2 large rare earth magnets and tape one to the hull on the inside where you want to drill the hole. Then go outside and use the second magnet to find the first one. The ones I use will find each other from 8 to 10” away. Then when the second magnet is sticking to the hull mark the location. No measurement and guessing necessary to find where to drill. Put some rare earth magnets on your Christmas list too. Have fun.

 

[Easternshore]

Drilling holes starts out scary, but as soon as you test fit the new fitting into the hole and realize it'll be appropriately plugged, etc. it gets a lot better.



To avoid chipping and damaging the paint, put some painter's tape over the spot you're drilling. Drill through the tape. And run the hole saw backwards for the first bit to wear through the paint and into the fiberglass with the back side of the teeth, then switch directions and drill the rest of the way through. Same trick applies to the drill bit for the pilot hole. The combination of tape and not running the cutting edge of the bit / hole saw into the surface keeps chipping and such to a minimum so you won't get any that the edges of the fitting won't hide.

Thank you Rob, great tip to help make a professional looking cut and reducing anxiety about drilling holes in the Admiral’s boat while she watches!

 

[Easternshore]

When you go to drilling the holes for the new discharge hoses a neat trick I use is to take 2 large rare earth magnets and tape one to the hull on the inside where you want to drill the hole. Then go outside and use the second magnet to find the first one. The ones I use will find each other from 8 to 10” away. Then when the second magnet is sticking to the hull mark the location. No measurement and guessing necessary to find where to drill. Put some rare earth magnets on your Christmas list too. Have fun.

Thanks Dave, another great tip, I may just jump on Amazon now and not wait for Christmas!

 

[Comodave]

After you drill the hole with the hole saw, I like to use a rat tail file to file the edge off the hole. It gives room for caulk to make an O ring around the through hull fitting.

 

[Brooksie]

Groco 108?

Sorry, I meant Groco 109

 

[Comodave]

Thanks and I agree. Initially I was looking for some alternative to drilling holes through her new Awlgrip finish, but Ts & check valves does sound a bit of a “Rube Goldberg” machine.

Once you drill a couple of holes in your boat and find out the world doesn’t come to an end, it will be easier to do the next time. Or I can come and drill on your boat, I don’t have any trouble drilling on other peoples boat…

 

[72tpiK5]

Once you drill a couple of holes in your boat and find out the world doesn’t come to an end, it will be easier to do the next time. Or I can come and drill on your boat, I don’t have any trouble drilling on other peoples boat…

Experienced and helpful too! You are alright, I don't care what these other guys say.

Mike.

 

[Comodave]

No problem. We are all here to help.

 

[SteveK]

Experienced and helpful too! You are alright, I don't care what these other guys say.

Mike.

Ya, I know what you mean. Not once did he tell you to use an underwater drill below the waterline.

 

[High Wire]

Don’t use T’s nor check valves. The T’s force the discharge from one pump out of the inlet side of the other WHEN the CVs eventually sticks open. As a minimum both pumps fight each other when both run simultaneously like in a flooding situation. The right way to install is separate plumbing and separate power supplies so they work independently.

 

[Jon67]

Of you have a cored hull and even if you do t I would suggest epoxying the hole before you install the thru hull. Don't rely on the silicone or sika flex to prevent water from getting into the layers of your hull. Ideally you should drill oversize and line the hole with thickened epoxy.you can look this up online for more info.

 

[Mike H]

Another thing to consider is to install an LED at your helm for each bilge pump. When they are energized and pumping, the LED will let you know that. Our boat had the lights at the breaker panel, but that doesn't tell you anything when you are at the helm (especially the upper helm). I now have three LED's at the upper helm, one for forward, mid, and aft bilge pumps. You can get them at Zoro.com (12 volt). We also have a highwater alarm for the mid pump, and it is quite loud, but you never know.

If you do, remember for an LED, positive must be positive. It was incredibly obvious to me until I forgot when installing. After a couple minutes, I realized why they didn't work during a test.

 

[CarlF]

The Rule 2000 (a good choice) takes 1 1/8" hose. Be sure your thru-hull is the same size. Don't use smaller or you'll greatly reduce the capacity.

When you drill the hole if there's any core (wood, balsa, foam), it's VERY important to seal it. Put a small Allen wrench with the short end sticking out into a drill and use it to chip out the core about 1/2" deep. Or use a dremel bit. Use sand paper to clean the inside edge of the laminate so there's no glue or core sticking to it. Give it a clean with alcohol or paint thinner. Then pack it with epoxy putty. Fill the hole packing it in hard, let it harden, and then use your hole saw to redrill. The kind of epoxy that comes in a two part stick is especially easy. Still use a good caulk on the outside of the thru-hull. Roughen the gel coat a bit with sandpaper and clean everything with alcohol or thinner to be sure the caulk sticks.

Mount the new pump and switch 2-3" higher than the current pump. This way it will only get wet if there's a serious leak or the gulper fails. It will last forever not sitting in salt water.

Try to loop the hose 12" higher than the thru-hull. This will stop water from waves from coming down.

I would use a mechanical switch not electronic. Why have another power draw on a pump that hopefully will never turn on?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BRQ0TW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Comodave]

Of you have a cored hull and even if you do t I would suggest epoxying the hole before you install the thru hull. Don't rely on the silicone or sika flex to prevent water from getting into the layers of your hull. Ideally you should drill oversize and line the hole with thickened epoxy.you can look this up online for more info.

Check out marinehowto.com for how to deal with cored decks or hulls.

 

[fgarriso]

If I was doing it. I would at the very least put one Johnson at the front (low point) and at the stern. You can wire them with a float switch in parrell. That way you can set them to auto and manual.

 

[grandbanksbayfield]

I use the Johnson Pumps sealed switch. It looks like a black pack of cigarettes standing upright on a base and somehow senses the water when it it gets to a certain depth on the unit. It is incredibly reliable. 2000 gpm is good. If the manual pump is located very low, it is good for getting the "last drops" out, something most pumps cannot do.

 

[Darlin]

I've use Rule 1500 with internal switch with good service for many years on my 50' OA trawler, I recently replaced the small bilge pump on my 34 C&C and had to try a few different types to get one that did not cycle constantly. It is located in the bilge between the keel bolts. I think an Atwood was the winner.