Best Trawler Type (or brand) for Off Shore

[OldDan1943]

What is the mission. What is the budget? What amenities do you need or want for your comfort? What is your current skill level?

That about covers "which trawler is best".

 

[Riff Raff]

Price

Love the boat so far. List Price of boat had dropped over time. Needs some cosmetic tlc but seemed structurally sound and mechanically good. (Did maintenance work before trip up coast -1200 miles) travelled full distance without mechanical breakdown. List at time of offer was $379,000 usd at time of offer. Paid less.

 

[backinblue]

Good for you! Congrats on the new boat and successful trip.

 

[OldDan1943]

Love the boat so far. List Price of boat had dropped over time. Needs some cosmetic tlc but seemed structurally sound and mechanically good. (Did maintenance work before trip up coast -1200 miles) travelled full distance without mechanical breakdown. List at time of offer was $379,000 usd at time of offer. Paid less.

Other than changing filters, did you have other situations?
How many folks onboard besides you?

 

[OldDan1943]

These days, hyd stabilizers are needed less and less. With the gyro stabilizer are well in reach of more and more recreational boats. The down side is, I am told, the need for 120vt. Away from the dock, one would need a generator or an inverter and many batteries and or solar panels.

 

[ghostrider454]

Hey all, I have been searching for a boat for about 3 months for a trip retracing my younger foot steps up the inland passageway as well as for fishing off the Oregon Coast. People on board would be two adults, a couple dogs, a guest here and there for a week maybe. The trip to the Great Land pushes me towards 38-42 foot trawlers, I like models with twin diesels as I recall the pain of docking a 34 foot single screw troller years ago. Also, I am a working stiff and not interested in buying a new boat, used Nordhavn or other expensive boats, just dont want that much debit. So ...
I have been looking at 36-42 foot Ocean Alexanders, Other Taiwanese trawlers (aka performance trawlers) as well as grand banks classics, Marine Traders, a bristol trawler or two etc.
Thanks for your opinions

Welkommen!
I gave up commercial fishing when I was 73, however I rake advantage of every opportunity now to sail with friends, as long as I don't have to climb the mast or run to the bow - I'm fine. I'm a firm believer in motor sailors and trollers with steadying sails. Gives me the best of both worlds.

Take a good look at a Diesel Duck - 38 to 40ft models. You'll find smaller cabin windows, but it will take a beating - esp off the Columbia Bar and keep on going. They also have at least four watertight compartments, which I don't see on other trawlers.

 

[backinblue]

These days, hyd stabilizers are needed less and less. With the gyro stabilizer are well in reach of more and more recreational boats. The down side is, I am told, the need for 120vt. Away from the dock, one would need a generator or an inverter and many batteries and or solar panels.

Hmmm, boat show I was at recently, the gyro stabilizers by SeaKeeper were 12v battery powered. They did take a fair amount of current, but at least no AC needed, just enough battery power for the conditions and the time you needed it running. If running the gyro while cruising, no worry at all.

 

[rslifkin]

Hmmm, boat show I was at recently, the gyro stabilizers by SeaKeeper were 12v battery powered. They did take a fair amount of current, but at least no AC needed, just enough battery power for the conditions and the time you needed it running. If running the gyro while cruising, no worry at all.

The small sizes are 12v, the bigger ones are 120. If it's just for use underway my biggest concern would be needing to run the gen before departure to get it spun up if we weren't starting out plugged into shore power.

 

[OldDan1943]

Hmmm, boat show I was at recently, the gyro stabilizers by SeaKeeper were 12v battery powered. They did take a fair amount of current, but at least no AC needed, just enough battery power for the conditions and the time you needed it running. If running the gyro while cruising, no worry at all.

12vt great but how how many amps during operation?

 

[OldDan1943]

The small sizes are 12v, the bigger ones are 120. If it's just for use underway my biggest concern would be needing to run the gen before departure to get it spun up if we weren't starting out plugged into shore power.

great suggestion, spin it up at the dock.

 

[OldDan1943]

SeaKeeper 3, reduce the roll about 95%
For boats, 30-39feet
Weight, 550#
Price $26,900

Here is an article from 2017
https://southernboating.com/electronics-hub/systems/seakeeper-3/

 

[majnun]

Hull shape

I've had three full displacement boats and one, currently, semi-displacement. The former are generally governed by a formula of 1.5 x the r2 (square root) of the waterline length. Any faster or more power and the boat just squats deeper in the water. A displacement boat has a tucked up stern (some immersed or not) that rises as a following sea lifts it up. A semi-displacement boat boat has a flat run to the transom so the boat speed can be increased without squatting, to a degree. But it loses its ability to lift up with a following sea. The boat becomes difficult to steer. It may broach and capsize. Or the following sea can swamp the boat by dumping water onto the deck or into the cockpit faster than it drains out, ultimately sinking it. On a planing boat these problems are exacerbated, as their runs are flatter. Their best course of action is to ride the waves or to head into them. But that is theoretical for me, never having done it. Additionally, planing boats require horsepower to get up on a plane, semi-displacement boats less so, displacement hulls least of all. Trawlers generally cruise at the same speed as displacement boats. Except for PNW trawlers, which have fantail sterns or variations, semi-displacement boats are roomier.

 

[Art]

Yes I have, as well as having taken rescue boat training where the limitations of even those planing hulls designed for rough weather are taught. I thought I made it clear the conditions of operation involved in my observations. As I doubt you have actual experience in that type of conditions we are comparing apples and oranges and thus engaged in pointless conversation.

Feel I must interject here.

rslifkin depicts similar to my experiences. I have more than once experienced gnarly following sea conditions in a custom design, 1950, 38', semi planing hull, raised deck, sedan sport fisher wooden boat [14 ton weight]. WOT was 16 knots. Throttle up to climb, throttle a bit down to crest rather slowly over the top and then throttle even lower to ride down to the valley. Repeat, Repeat, Repeat. The available speed of the boat made it so that is essence: Following sea becomes submissive and the boat becomes dominant. Pilot's good handling of throttle and helm makes gaining control positions over the following sea conditions relatively easy to accomplish.

Then again... here's video of two heavy duty yet too slow displacement hull boats in nasty, confused sea conditions. I would not like to be in those seas. However, I believe a really good, heavy duty, well powered semi planing or full planing hull could be piloted to better negotiate those seas. Albeit it, any boat in that group of conflicting current and sea swells with wind whipped breakers atop had better have really well placed, low positioned and heavy weight COG ballast of one sort or another.

Man - I just watched that again. Bad Assss shat!

 

[Fish53]

Feel I must interject here.

rslifkin depicts similar to my experiences. I have more than once experienced gnarly following sea conditions in a custom design, 1950, 38', semi planing hull, raised deck, sedan sport fisher wooden boat [14 ton weight]. WOT was 16 knots. Throttle up to climb, throttle a bit down to crest rather slowly over the top and then throttle even lower to ride down to the valley. Repeat, Repeat, Repeat. The available speed of the boat made it so that is essence: Following sea becomes submissive and the boat becomes dominant. Pilot's good handling of throttle and helm makes gaining control positions over the following sea conditions relatively easy to accomplish.

Then again... here's video of two heavy duty yet too slow displacement hull boats in nasty, confused sea conditions. I would not like to be in those seas. However, I believe a really good, heavy duty, well powered semi planing or full planing hull could be piloted to better negotiate those seas. Albeit it, any boat in that group of conflicting current and sea swells with wind whipped breakers atop had better have really well placed, low positioned and heavy weight COG ballast of one sort or another.

Man - I just watched that again. Bad Assss shat!

I've also watched that video and while it is confused and very turbulent it's not a very big sea and doesn't appear to be open water offshore. I get that many on here have never been in a fifty or sixty foot sea with winds exceeding 80kts, and no one expects them to have been. It's easy to scoff at the possibility of encountering such conditions or pretend that so and so boat can handle those conditions but until you've actually done it I'm afraid it's all conjecture. I've been in those conditions numerous times on boats as small as 70 feet and trust me you don't want to be there in a small planing or SD hull pleasure boat regardless of tactics.

 

[rslifkin]

Yeah, a full storm sea isn't somewhere I want to be in any small boat. But I don't do anything far enough offshore that I couldn't avoid that. When you're only offshore for hours or a day, it's much easier to avoid the really bad weather. If you're doing commercial work where you're going regardless or if you're going to be far offshore, it's a different story.

 

[backinblue]

I can safely say I'll never be in 50 ft seas

 

[OldDan1943]

As I recall, they were making their way into and through a cut.
I do hope the sea and weather is not normally that bad.

Perhaps this is a good example of "Why the helmsman needs a seat belt."?
Feel sorry for the crew. I would have both arms wrapped around something solid.

 

[Fish53]

Then none of you are ever actually going offshore so the discussion is irrelevant. I think I stated and reiterated that my comments pertained to going offshore where running to shelter was a questionable tactic. In those circumstances it would be very nice to have a boat capable of handling the worst of conditions. It makes no sense to go out that far and only be prepared for what's "expected" as that may not always be what you get.

 

[rslifkin]

Then none of you are ever actually going offshore so the discussion is irrelevant. I think I stated and reiterated that my comments pertained to going offshore where running to shelter was a questionable tactic. In those circumstances it would be very nice to have a boat capable of handling the worst of conditions. It makes no sense to go out that far and only be prepared for what's "expected" as that may not always be what you get.

It all depends on how far out you are and why you're out there. Running for shelter isn't always an option and you wouldn't want to do it for every little thing. But the really bad weather usually doesn't happen that suddenly, so you can often get away from it if you've got good weather info.

 

[Fish53]

It all depends on how far out you are and why you're out there. Running for shelter isn't always an option and you wouldn't want to do it for every little thing. But the really bad weather usually doesn't happen that suddenly, so you can often get away from it if you've got good weather info.

Imagining that weather doesn't or can't happen suddenly is a very dangerous assumption. As you said "you can often get away", "often" isn't always and assuming "good weather info" would be a second dangerous assumption. That said once again my comments reference the inability to run from weather, expected or otherwise, which to me is part of the definition of being offshore. If the subject of the original question had said inshore or coastal there would be a whole other set of criteria to discuss, but it didn't.

 

[rslifkin]

Imagining that weather doesn't or can't happen suddenly is a very dangerous assumption. As you said "you can often get away", "often" isn't always and assuming "good weather info" would be a second dangerous assumption. That said once again my comments reference the inability to run from weather, expected or otherwise, which to me is part of the definition of being offshore. If the subject of the original question had said inshore or coastal there would be a whole other set of criteria to discuss, but it didn't.

Weather happens suddenly, that's for sure. But 80 kt winds and 50 foot seas typically has enough warning that you can at least position yourself to not get pounded as badly. And of course, how far offshore you are matters, as it's a big difference being 8 hours from safe harbor vs 48 hours.

It also depends on where you are. Some parts of the world are easier to avoid the really bad weather than others.

 

[OldDan1943]

Ah yes, I remember the changing weather on the Great Lakes.
2 hours on the water and the weather goes sour. This was back in the days before affordable VHF radios.
I also remember the ore carriers communicating via whistles.... no radios on board.
Gosh, I am old. LOL

 

[Fish53]

Weather happens suddenly, that's for sure. But 80 kt winds and 50 foot seas typically has enough warning that you can at least position yourself to not get pounded as badly. And of course, how far offshore you are matters, as it's a big difference being 8 hours from safe harbor vs 48 hours.

It also depends on where you are. Some parts of the world are easier to avoid the really bad weather than others.

I'm sorry but your assumptions are incorrect, conditions can easily go from relatively pleasant to life threatening in less than an hour. More to the point conditions can deteriorate quickly to a state where the speed of a given boat many be reduced significantly, further lessening the chance of reaching shelter. The issue with weather forecasts is obvious, at best it's an educated guess. The single best insurance when going offshore is a well prepared vessel capable of surviving extreme conditions operated by someone with skill and experience.

 

[Hippocampus]

Sat with the bride aand tried to figure miles off any continental shelf and outside SAR response. . Best estimate is 30-40k over 30+ years. Have been in more than finger and toes gale force but storm on only one occasion. All miles in small recreational boats. All miles in sail not power. All with as much weather support including professional weather routers telling what they think is best to do. No travels except “in season”.
Most cruisers try to be careful and avoid weather. Most say they experience significant weather on the order of 5% of the time or less. But when it happens if you didn’t bring it with you you don’t have it. That includes crew, the boat, your prep and your skill set. I’ve found the most difficult things are fear and fatigue. Generally speaking sailboats have a better AVS than motor. I’ve never owned a boat with an AVS of less than 130. We’ve been looking at motor and very few are above 110.
Even with fancy current generation autopilots like NKE or the like when it’s really sporty sometimes you’re better off hand steering. Particularly if surfing. This it’s very fatiguing. Helm watches of 15-30 minutes are commonly needed. Sleep is nearly impossible. Depending upon all mechanical systems working can be quite problematic. What’s not discussed in this thread is what many recreational cruisers actually do in my limited experience. That’s resorting to passive techniques. Once personal endurance is exhausted and fatigue makes helming problematic think you need a passive technique. This isn’t passing over a bar with a few hours of a tight sphincter. Nor even a squall with amazing winds. But rather days of endurance as the intensity of the weather rises and falls. Some of the biggest waves I’ve seen have been after the weather has cleared. Blue skies and moderate fresh breeze. You’re beat up and waves keep coming. As they say” it’s the waves that kill you not the wind”.
On sail where being pooped isn’t the concern as it is in power. A closed companionway, no exposed glass, small rapidly draining cockpits and no down flooding. So the Jordan series drogue has become the de rigor. Button up, deploy the drogue, go below and lie on the sole, puke when necessary.
It’s here I’m interested in advice.

What passive techniques do you guys use? Hear a lot about sea anchors but in the sailing world they’ve fallen out of favor. Too hard to deploy and nearly impossible to recover if of a size able to prevent you from backing down and destroying your steering system. Have you ever used a sea anchor?which one? What were the details?

My concern about SD or planing hulls on recreational boats is unlike the the steel boats with flush decks and small enclosed house with secure ports shown in the vid the sd and planing recreational hulls I’ve seen would down flood in a pooping. With engine failure after both racors foul they would lie ahull. Changing filters would be a struggle. So I don’t think JSD or warps are a viable passive technique for powered pleasure boats. What technique do you use?

 

[Fish53]

Sat with the bride aand tried to figure miles off any continental shelf and outside SAR response. . Best estimate is 30-40k over 30+ years. Have been in more than finger and toes gale force but storm on only one occasion. All miles in small recreational boats. All miles in sail not power. All with as much weather support including professional weather routers telling what they think is best to do. No travels except “in season”.
Most cruisers try to be careful and avoid weather. Most say they experience significant weather on the order of 5% of the time or less. But when it happens if you didn’t bring it with you you don’t have it. That includes crew, the boat, your prep and your skill set. I’ve found the most difficult things are fear and fatigue. Generally speaking sailboats have a better AVS than motor. I’ve never owned a boat with an AVS of less than 130. We’ve been looking at motor and very few are above 110.
Even with fancy current generation autopilots like NKE or the like when it’s really sporty sometimes you’re better off hand steering. Particularly if surfing. This it’s very fatiguing. Helm watches of 15-30 minutes are commonly needed. Sleep is nearly impossible. Depending upon all mechanical systems working can be quite problematic. What’s not discussed in this thread is what many recreational cruisers actually do in my limited experience. That’s resorting to passive techniques. Once personal endurance is exhausted and fatigue makes helming problematic think you need a passive technique. This isn’t passing over a bar with a few hours of a tight sphincter. Nor even a squall with amazing winds. But rather days of endurance as the intensity of the weather rises and falls. Some of the biggest waves I’ve seen have been after the weather has cleared. Blue skies and moderate fresh breeze. You’re beat up and waves keep coming.
On sail where being pooped isn’t the concern as it is in power. A closed companionway, no exposed glass, small rapidly draining cockpits and no down flooding. So the Jordan series drogue has become the de rigor. Button up, deploy the drogue, go below and lie on the sole, puke when necessary.
It’s here I’m interested in advice.

What passive techniques do you guys use? Hear a lot about sea anchors but in the sailing world they’ve fallen out of favor. Too hard to deploy and nearly impossible to recover if of a size able to prevent you from backing down and destroying your steering system. Have you ever used a sea anchor?which one? What were the details?

My concern about SD or planing hulls on recreational boats is unlike the the steel boats with flush decks and small enclosed house with secure ports shown in the vid the sd and planing recreational hulls I’ve seen would down flood in a pooping. With engine failure after both racors foul they would lie ahull. Changing filters would be a struggle. So I don’t think JSD or warps are a viable passive technique for pleasure boats. What technique do you use?

Most powerboats used for pleasure will never see the type of weather you've referenced. I have years of commercial experience and have never seen a sea anchor used but most of my experience was on larger boats (75-300 ft.) so a sea anchor would need to be quite large indeed. Most boats that operate offshore commercially have enough horsepower, design and preparation to simply jog into it on autopilot. I've at times sat for two or three days jogging upwind into 100kts of wind, not pleasant but not necessarily scary either. It's more boring and you start bugging the cook to try and make hot food because you can't stand another peanut butter sandwich, we always managed hot coffee however, without which we would have surely perished.
I did have a 12 foot Para-tech chute on my 38 foot commercial trawler that I deployed to hold me to the wind and slow my drift when I was jigging cod. It worked very well for that but I never tried it as a storm tactic, I suspect it was too small for that anyway.

 

[Hippocampus]

Thanks Fish. So if contemplating this activity in a recreational boat of smaller size you’re likely not have passive techniques at your disposal. Hence, great attention must be paid to redundant fuel filtering and bulletproof engine systems. Having 2 independent AP systems would be a plus and great attention to the strength of the steering mechanisms. From what you’ve saying a modified DD or N are the only current choices in my price range of ~$1m or less unless I come across a one off designed for that use, the current discussion above about running would seem moot as being overwhelmed is an unacceptable risk.

 

[Rufus]

The older Ocean Alexander 42 sedans would seem to be a good fit for the fishing/liveaboard combination. The aft deck is well suited for the fishing piece, and the cabin has nice layout. OA's are very solid diesel powered boats with good seakeeping at a decent price. Not particularly fast, but not displacement either. We love our 440....nice sized cockpit, but not the best for a serious fishing set up. The problem is finding a nice 42 sedan these days. Here's a photo of one for sale on the East Coast....

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989/ocean-alexander-420-sport-sedan-3657555/

 

[Fish53]

Thanks Fish. So if contemplating this activity in a recreational boat of smaller size you’re likely not have passive techniques at your disposal. Hence, great attention must be paid to redundant fuel filtering and bulletproof engine systems. Having 2 independent AP systems would be a plus and great attention to the strength of the steering mechanisms. From what you’ve saying a modified DD or N are the only current choices in my price range of ~$1m or less unless I come across a one off designed for that use, the current discussion above about running would seem moot as being overwhelmed is an unacceptable risk.

Far be it for me to suggest recreational choices as I'm not as well versed in brands and price ranges as others here. What I have attempted is to briefly address elements of seaworthiness and seamanship. It appears to me that true deep draft full displacement recreational trawlers are few in lengths under 50 feet or so. I have looked at some Nordhavns which look stout enough but to my eye are somewhat ungainly and unnecessarily complex, but you may get one for under 1mil, I honestly don't know.

 

[Hippocampus]

Fish if I can impose again. For nearly the last decade been doing two non stop passages per year. Either Norfolk/Hampton/oriental to ViIs or Antigua or Newport to those Caribbean destinations in the fall (November). And Antigua or BVI to Newport in the spring.
From the benefit of your and Peter’s experience and expertise it seems that will need modification. Down will be inside the Gulf Stream until the straits of Florida. Then straight shot across one of the cuts to the Caribbean Sea. Once on the non Atlantic side of the islands then go to those destinations in the fall. Island hopping up the chain during the winter picking up the Gulf Stream north of the straights of Florida to Newport in the spring.
From your experience does that sound reasonable in a small recreational trawler? Sorry about the thread hijack but thought others might be interested as well.

 

[Fish53]

Fish if I can impose again. For nearly the last decade been doing two non stop passages per year. Either Norfolk/Hampton/oriental to ViIs or Antigua or Newport to those Caribbean destinations in the fall (November). And Antigua or BVI to Newport in the spring.
From the benefit of your and Peter’s experience and expertise it seems that will need modification. Down will be inside the Gulf Stream until the straits of Florida. Then straight shot across one of the cuts to the Caribbean Sea. Once on the non Atlantic side of the islands then go to those destinations in the fall. Island hopping up the chain during the winter picking up the Gulf Stream north of the straights of Florida to Newport in the spring.
From your experience does that sound reasonable in a small recreational trawler? Sorry about the thread hijack but thought others might be interested as well.

If by "fall" you mean late October into November out in the Gulf Stream off RI in an 8kt boat you may want to pick your boat very carefully. Your sailing experience has spoiled your concept of seaworthiness. Most recreational trawlers are more Winnebagoish than being very far outside would prove safe. Sailboats in the better examples are usually fine seaboats capable of standing up to weather when properly handled, some trawlers would be a bad show much offshore regardless of how they were handled. That being said, hey you could be lucky, some are but others not so much.