Bermuda Crossing on a GB42

[twistedtree]

I think I’d be concerned in two primary areas with a GB on such a crossing, and both are water intrusion based.

I think you need to assume you will experience weather a good bit more that forecast, and you need to be comfortable that your boat can handle it. I had a 47 GB, and based on that I’d be most worried about windows getting knocked out, and water in the cockpit with subsequent loss of stability and down flooding.

The GB is a pretty low profile boat, so I think you need to be comfortable that it can take a slug of water on any window and not have it get blown out. If a window get knocked out then you are in really deep short. I just have no idea how thick the glass is, size, and what ABS or other rating it achieves. So I’d want to understand that, and reinforce as necessary as others have described.

The other thing is down flooding, especially if you have a cockpit than can be turned into a swimming pool. But if you have a GB classic layout, this might be less of an issue. Either way, I’d really carefully evaluate down flooding opportunities assuming the boat is completely awash for extended time.

 

[dennismenace111]

Read a few accounts of people sailing to Bermuda in sailboats, and getting caught in unexpected weather, and take that into account.

Morgan Freeman, the actor, did it one time, where he got in caught in bad weather with this family on his sailboat (30 something feet long) on a passage to Bermuda, and wrote about it.

I like adventure as much, or more, than the next guy, but I would really be wary of doing that run without a perfect weather window, in any 42 foot powerboat, trawler included, other than something specifically designed for passages like this. I'm not sure a GB 42, (although a great boat), qualifies.

And, as mentioned above, with all appropriate safety gear onboard.

I made that trip twice on a 34 foot sailboat. A Dufour, built for blue water sailing...with a 6,000 lb keel that was 6.5' deep. Both times we started off with a calm weather forecast and both times ended up in 30 kt gales and 8 to 10 foot seas. In the DuFour, it was uncomfortable, but safe. The second time, it was really uncomfortable in 10 foot seas and 30 kt winds. Both trips were in July and we expected good sailing conditions. We got hell instead.



I would think twice...

 

[bill.kimbell]

GB to Bermuda

You will find insurance will be an issue. The North Atlantic hurricane season starts 6/1, after 7/1 was a significant (add'l $$) issue for our insurance. We enjoyed living aboard in Bermuda after completing the Newport-Bermuda sail race. Not enough to warrant doing the trip aboard a powerboat, unless a much larger, ocean-going vessel. FWIW

 

[Stonechamps]

I have sailed to Bermuda 3 times on a 40ft sloop. I think conditions in the Gulf Stream would be particularly challenging for a GB unless rigged carefully for roll. On my last trip single handing on the first leg of the Bermuda 1-2 Race...I was caught by a not unusual occurance in the GS - a cross sea that broke over me, knocked me near 90 degrees and spun the boat 180 degrees, stripping the dodger and the gears in my mechanical autopilot. This was in good weather, clear day, I was below and was pretty surprised. Fortunately my hatch was closed and I didn't take a lot of water below. Once the cockpit drained and I got the pointy end headed back in the right direction all was well. So my message is that even in clear benign conditions the GS can surprise you.

 

[Rich wilmer]

I read about someone doing the crossing also,prop removed in a flemming

 

[Adagio43]

I have Made the trip to Bermuda several times leaving from NewEngland, the Chesapeake and eastern Caribbean but always in a sailboat. I don’t have any experience in a GB so I can’t comment on its suitability.

However, a few points to consider based upon my experience:
1. There is no such thing as a five day weather window. Three days is the most you can hope for.
2. A life raft, EPIRB, SSB are absolute necessities in addition to your normal electronics.
3. Bermuda is a stop over not a boating destination.
4. The gulf stream is a real consideration and can add several days to the trip when you have to run from weather or hove too. In one trip I was blown several hundred miles east of Bermuda and another was hove too for three days in the Gulf Stream. You never enter the Gulf Stream with a northerly and cross it as quickly as possible.

That’s my 2 cents worth but if I was you I would fly.

 

[Blazys]

Bermuda trip

Happy New Year everyone!
As a 7-yr very happy owner of a GB42 with twin Lehman 120s, I want to get some experiential feedback on a long-distance cruise I'm considering for 2021 on my GB42. Up to now the longest crossing I've made was Grand Isle, LA to Sarasota, FL, 420 nm. Other than that I've made numerous overnight trips (8+) offshore Texas diving on reefs 110 nm off the coast. Coastal cruising experience, Galveston, Texas to Cape May, NJ.
I'm toying with the idea of doing a Cape Hatteras N.C. to Bermuda crossing in the summer of 2021, about 640 nm. My GB 42 has the range and it's only a full day more than the 52 hr crossing I've already made in the Gulf of Mexico. I realize it's a blue water trip unlike the GOM when I was never more than 150 or so nm from shore so I wouldn't leave port without a clear 5-day weather window. And I also understand a full displacement blue water trawler like a Kady Krogen, Nordhaven, etc would be a better choice for a Bermuda crossing but I don't have other blue water crossings beyond Bermuda in my plans and prefer staying with my GB.
My questions (2) are: has anyone on this forum done a NC to Bermuda crossing on a Grand Banks trawler? and 2) do you see reasons why a blue water crossing this distance (640 nm) on a GB42 may not be such a good idea?

I have made two trips as crew, on sailboats, to Bermuda and back. One in November and one in June, the nice weather. One boat 42' and the other 44'. On the Atlantic there may not be a storm for waves and water to get rough. I would not take a gb42 out. The stability of a trawler is nowhere near that of a sailboat. Granted I know people who have been becalmed on the N Atlantic but that was not predicted. Conversely, we never anticipated any bad weather or non was predicted.

Even on the best of conditions caution is wise. As some else stated look at requirements needed by the Bermuda Race committee requirements.

 

[AusCan]

Everyone has a different perspective on whether this trip is doable in a GB42, depending on their experience and their attitude to dealing with risk.

I've never done the trip, and don't know GB42's very well so my comments don't carry much weight. I have done some offshore cruising in my little 30 footer, so I know what it's like to get beat up in rough conditions. I enjoy pushing the safe limits as it is always a huge learning experience.

As others have mentioned the fuel supply is a big issue, especially in rough seas. Fuel usage will increase and/or speed will decrease significantly in rough water. My cruising speed can drop from 6.5 to 4 knots in heavy seas even without adverse currents.

Boat preparation is paramount. A few things to look at are:
Your fuel tanks need to be 100% clean. Any sludge on the bottom will be stirred up and giving you grief.

Everything needs to be very well secured. Things like refrigerators, furniture, hot water tank, chargers, batteries, tool boxes that have been fine in their position when cruising in coastal water are capable of coming loose and doing major damage. This will happen at a time when you need to be focusing on other things. The outcome can be catastrophic.

Know your boat and have critical spare parts on board and tools. You need to be able to react quickly when something goes wrong.

Enjoy the trip when you are ready and the time is right.

 

[Parrothedd]

I’m in agreement with the guy who asked “Why”? We sailed to Bermuda from Annapolis and back and then asked ourselves why? I much prefer the Caribbean or even Bahamas or Mexico for fun and things to do once you get there.

 

[Chrisjs]

Does the OP intend to keep the boat and or sell it in Bermuda, or this intended as a round trip? Given all the issues, risk, and need for upgrades/improvements to the vessel, it would seem to be quite foolhardy to undertake this venture just to have to make the return trip a few weeks or months later. But clearly, some people like to live life on the edge!! Hopefully if he does decide to defy the odds and undertake this trip, it will go well and not end up endangering responders trying come to his aid.

Quite a few men (mostly) make it up Everest, but quite a few less make it back down!!

 

[rgano]

I'm giving myself plenty of time before making the Bermuda crossing decision. If I decide to go it will be in June-July 2021 timeframe.

If you make this trip successfully or otherwise, I sincerely hope that you would consider posting the info here and any lessons learned.

My own ocean-crossing experiences are numerous, but aboard ships, the smallest of which I commanded at the age of 29 and was 205 feet long, 1600 tons, and a crew of 69. I have often said I would never cross an ocean in anything smaller because I do not like to roll around like crazy all day for days on end in my later years - I did enough of that for a couple of lifetimes. Like you, I have GOM crossing experience in a GB42 I owned for 29 years and for comfortability considerations I would never have attempted the Bermuda trip in it, but I know I could have done it with some of the previously mentioned preps.

Have you carefully considered the crew who you would invite? On a snap-rolling boat like yours, I would hope they were all experienced in your boat and not "draftees" either from family and friends or off the dock with little seagoing experience. Care in this selection would prevent some very unpleasant interactions and possibly hazardous possibilities.

 

[Sealife]

Jessediver49,

I have read every post, and have been hesitant to respond....but, given the variety of responses and experiences given, here goes.

1) pay a weather router ( I used Chris Parker when we went from Cartagena to PR 920nm, not because I couldn’t figure it out, but because when it changed/ went to crap I had someone to blame so my wife didn’t give me hell). That trip was nowhere near any help, only you know or will find out what you are made of.

2) to discuss such things before you do it, most will get in the way having never done it, to prevent you. I find once you have enough momentum, few will stand in your way.

3) at 70, you have lived more life than me, and I would be willing to take the risk if it were on my bucket list.

4) take an overnight trip out into the GS w/ crap weather predicted, see how you and the boat fare while still on no schedule and closer to shore and able to return. Also giving you a chance to hone fuel calculations. I will tell you from experience that when it is bad, the boat will do it forever as long as it doesn’t get worse, but there is a “cumulative” affect on humans.

5) tKe with a grain of salt, yes I’m on an old KK w/ a single that did 10k miles around Central, South America, and Caribbean. The stuff I worried about before and after are vastly different. I’m sure, actually I know several people said I was crazy, of course not as crazy as Richard Bost on Dauntless, no offense Richard

 

[Sealife]

Second post: you could spend a lifetime planning. Our first trip on a 34 mainship from MD to Key West, I packed/planned like I was going off the end of the world. I did have an opportunity to sail from Bermuda to Rhode Island in a Tartan 37, and thought why do people do this for a good bit of the crap storm as we crossed the GS at night in a storm. Learning never stops, and if I knew half what I knew now and communicated it to my younger self, probably would have gotten out of boating. My point is, you feel the need, or you don’t.

Good luck, whatever your decision.

 

[MotorOn]

Very interesting thread!


Based on being skipper for 3 Marion Bermuda races, 3 Newport Bermuda race return deliveries, and a couple of other BDA trips in boats ranging from 36 - 50 ft (all sail), I can offer a few items of advice:

• Like someone previously mentioned, there is no such thing as a 5 day weather window. You may successfully time crossing the GS outbound, but the return trip would be much more challenging.
• As prep, i would go to the Bermuda race web sites and pretend you are going in a 42 ft sailboat. From that assumption, read everything they say about race boat conditions and requirements (and they say a LOT), boat and crew preparations and training. Do you regularly do MOB training?
• Another good place to look is https://www.sailing.org/specialregs
• Read Heavy Weather Sailing by K Adlard Coles.
• There is a publication like above for power boaters, but I couldn't find it. I'd scour the forums and old groups for it.
• There is a good chance the boat is likely to be able to make it given all the good advice in this thread were put into practice, but the crew is also as likely to get very, very beat up. How to deal with the broken ribs, concussions, seasickness, etc.
• Read about the Gulf Stream. You will need to deal with crossing it twice plus crossing the not-always predictable eddies on either side. Consider studying Jenifer Clark's website https://jcgulfstream.com/
• If i were doing the trip i would want 200% of the estimated fuel needed for a mill pond crossing.
• You will need a weather router and SSB and know how to use them.

If you make it to BDA, make sure you get duty free fuel b4 leaving, and raise one for us at the Swizzle Inn :lol:



BTW, if any one is wondering, it simply wouldn't occur to me to cross in a GB42, and I like BDA (that is, the BDA before being overrun with cruise ships)...


The bottom line is simple: you need to be as prepared as any of the Bermuda Sailboat racers and more so; they mostly have ways of propulsion when the engine breaks. You won't.


Also having a mechanic is not going to be nearly as valuable as someone who can change diesel filters down in what will be a hot, smelly engine room, in a rolling sea, without spilling too much.




fwiw,
Passe Partout Too

 

[Ric in Richmond]

Back in my youth....late 80's . 5 of us brought a Beneteau 30 (!!) back from Bermuda after the Annapolis to Bermuda Race.

Oldest guy was out of college and had ZERO experience.

The rest of us were in or had just graduated from college.

It wasn't a bad ride most of the way. Some crazy big seas but not crazy big winds....interesting to say the least.

A near lightning strike on July 3rd...Like 100 yds away...fat blue spark ...surface of the seas explodes kind of strike.

Keel bolts leaked the entire way.

Pulled in to Cape Charles and spent the night. Really didn't want to get back on the boat. We made it up to the mouth of the Potomac and that stretch of washing machine hell kicked our asses. We anchored at St Marys, called the owner and asked if he wanted to do a nice summer cruise home and got the heck off.


I'd go a lot of places on a GB 42. Bermuda is not one of them......

 

[Mako]

When I turned 50 I dived the Andrea Doria; when I turned 60 I got full-caved certified to do a photo shoot in a Texas cave at depths ~ 170 ft deep in an overhead environment... I just turned 70 and continue to have a zest for adventure but I'm enjoying life too much...

70 years old and still technical diving... you da man!

 

[mvweebles]

Peter - What are your planned destinations after your refit?

Ensenada is 70 nms South of San Diego which is where Weebles is being refit since I brought her down from San Francisco 14-months ago (great run - 500 nms nonstop during a seasonal wx window) . Ultimately, will take an open ended cruise and end up in St Petersburg FL. When I delivered, I dropped a lot of boats in BC/Puget Sound but never cruised there. Boat should be done in March (really) but I have some personal items to attend to. I'd love to head north to Alaska for the summer then south out of PNW in October 2020 to Central America and the Panama Canal.

 

[Jackhulse]

I think that trip is marginal, for two reasons:

1. A 5 day weather window is iffy. Yes weather forecasting is getting better and major storms are easier to predict and 5 days should be predictable. But it is on the edge IMO.

2. So when the edge falls apart, that boat is not one I would want to be in. It isn't ballasted so its range of positive stability is probably significantly less than 90 degrees, maybe as little as 60 degrees. Also the scantlings and particularly the forward facing windows are not capable of taking green water over the bow. Its downflow capability is unknown. And finally the systems lack redundancy and survivability. Look up the offshore sailboat racing rules to see what I mean.

David

I wouldn’t take our Endeavour 44 catamaran trawler to Bermuda, for several of the reasons outlined in this blog. Aside from fuel, which could be a real problem if weather significantly slowed the trip, the high winds and wave action are not meant for coastal boats. I helped sail a Swan 47 from Tortola to Easton, MD, about 1800 miles. We had good winds and not bas seas for most of the trip, but squalls for 2 days, 10’+ seas. Swan is a heavy duty offshore boat, no problem. The following year, we were trying to bring the same boat from Tortola to Bermuda. After 5 days, the heavy northwest winds and high seas were driving us towards England, so we diverted to Nassau. Weather prediction did not show this. The Swan handled it fine. Would not have wanted to be there in a Grand Banks.
Jack

 

[Jackhulse]

A Fleming 55 made all the way across the Atlantic:

https://www.flemingyachts.com/news/fleming-owners-travel-from-florida-to-europe-on-a-f55

Apples and oranges. A Grand Banks is not a Fleming, plus another 17 feet LOA.