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Old 01-02-2018, 07:55 AM   #61
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Well, Flywright pretty well tongue in cheek hit the nail squarely.

Worrying about a few amps and how long they run is for only part of the crowd.

For some of us, who live aboard have more amp eaters to fry than living out of a shoebox size fridge and only opening it for lunch for 30 seconds, and not refilling it till the next trip with precooled goodies.

On any given day.....I may have the following drawing down the batteries while 400 watt solar tries to keep up.

1. Danfoss powerd fridge/freezer
2. Danfoss powered cooler for beverages (boondocking used sparingly)
3. Wall warts charging 2 cell phones, 2 tablets, 2 laptops, electric toothbrush, and multi use powerd speakers for radio or tv use.
4. 24 inch TV
5. Chartplotter for anchor alarm
6. LED anchor light
7. Misc. LED light usage
8. Toilet flushing
9. Water pumps
10. Microwave, and/or blender
11. Dingy hoist
12. Tiny but present drains, propane sniffer, battery monitor, electric panel meters and lights....

There are times when all those kicking in and on at the same time exceed 20A.

Plus most of the time, the solar is not any where close to putting out 400W due to environmental condituons or shadowing from boat swing, sun angle, etc....

So being a frugal but non-camper style cruiser, who has been a student of batteries and revalent tech since my first cruiser in the 70's, getting along with a reasonable cost liveaboard set up for 7 month snowbirding, electricity aint for lab rats....nothing ever works like it does on paper Like last year when my primary battery charger went out in the Keys and took awhile for an ordered one to show up.

You have to "get it" just to get through each day and all the boating books, magazines and product manuals aint gonna help that much.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:56 AM   #62
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Isn't propane on a boat dangerous?

Or is that just wrt sailboats, trawlers handle atmosphere below differently?
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:16 AM   #63
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"Isn't propane on a boat dangerous?"

Anything / everything can be dangerous if not respected.

Most gasoline powered boats do not blow up.

Many of the "trawlers" I have been aboard use propane for the range , some for heat as well.

A propane reefer can be reasonably safe IF it is mounted above the WL in a deep tray with an overboard drain.

There are also good bilge sniffers that can cut the unit off of required.

We simply built a box to hold the unit outside on a deck with overboard drains.

For the Never Propane folks there are kerosene units that are safer than most kerosene cabin lamps.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:50 AM   #64
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I find a thousand amp battery bank, a 220 amp 2nd alternator with with 4 stage regulator, and a 120vac battery charger much simpler. If moving every other day, the alternator takes care of the power requirements. If sitting on the hook for multiple days, running the generator every day or other day for 2 hours takes care of power requirements. Besides, have to make hot water and run the washer / drier don't you know.

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Old 01-02-2018, 08:52 AM   #65
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Can you get quality efficient propane absorption "guts" for custom/built-in icebox conversion? Sources?

Or is a premade off-grid whole-fridge the only option?
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:13 AM   #66
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"Can you get quality efficient propane absorption "guts" for custom/built-in icebox conversion? Sources?"

Not that I have seen they are a package.

There are many DC owner installed units available .

For our 90/90 we chose an engine driven compressor and eutetic plates.

4 days of ice cream after a 2 hour engine run.

But we do have a custom top loading box with 4-6 inches of freon blown foam .

One of these days it will be able to pump a batt set up to full rapidly , and DC might be great, for folks that anchor out as much as possible.

A day dockside is always EZ living , but after 22+ years as a dockside liveaboard , my sole interest these days is living on the hook., no noisemaker aboard.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:22 AM   #67
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Isn't propane on a boat dangerous?

Or is that just wrt sailboats, trawlers handle atmosphere below differently?
Propane has to be treated with respect. The ABYC requirements for propane on a boat are pretty strict. If your boat has a propane system that meets these requirements, it is safe.

Some boaters are pretty lax with propane and in those cases, it can be dangerous.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:37 AM   #68
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For our 90/90 we chose an engine driven compressor and eutetic plates.

4 days of ice cream after a 2 hour engine run.
Those too are getting rarer, but I love the idea.

Also engine-driven watermaking.

For battery charging, a specialized, very high output alternator designed for continuous max output at low rpm.

I have little use for AC power, want to stay DC only as much as possible.

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One of these days it will be able to pump a batt set up to full rapidly , and DC might be great, for folks that anchor out as much as possible.
That's what LFP gets you, no amps acceptance lowering as SoC rises, no need to get to 100% Full.

So no matter how high your usage, just a few hours a week burning dino juice can take care of **all** your electric needs.

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my sole interest these days is living on the hook., no noisemaker aboard.
Wow, very ambitious! Of course running all the above off your propulsion engine is cheating 8-)

Or are you seriously considering no alt charging either, 100% of electricity from renewables?
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:17 AM   #69
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I think a compmetely solar powered boat just completed the Great Loop..

Nice, If you like living under a giant solar panel with a boat hull...
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:14 AM   #70
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Propulsion is a whole 'nother ball o' wax.
I believe going solar-only for electric House loads is radical enough for the moment.
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:17 AM   #71
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Worth paying for the Trojans compared to relabelled.....
What?! Am I the only one ROTF? LOL
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:00 PM   #72
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What?! Am I the only one ROTF? LOL

No. We better be quite though and stop being middle school boys or Mrs Shields will send us to detention.

Later,
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:18 PM   #73
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No. We better be quite though and stop being middle school boys or Mrs Shields will send us to detention.

Later,
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Sorry.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:38 PM   #74
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By "relabeled" I actually mean the mass-market, fraudulently labeled as deep cycle, as with most 12V in big box.

In this context

Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
My Trojan T105s were under $100 each and no sales tax in Delaware.
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Originally Posted by LaBomba View Post
T-105s were $650 taxes included for 6 of them in Florida.
What would be your counter argument?
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:46 PM   #75
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They offer multi brand among which their own TransCanada, price would range from 189$ for the entry level model (220ah), to. 229$ for their higher model (235ah) to 275$ for trojan T105.
And yes here too, only 20% difference for sure worth going with Trojan.

Now if you happen to know the OEM on the other is Crown or Deka or another known quality maker, that's different.

But I think lots more likely it's JCI.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:03 PM   #76
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By "relabeled" I actually mean the mass-market, fraudulently labeled as deep cycle, as with most 12V in big box.

In this context

What would be your counter argument?
No argument from me - Just mentioning facts in my world.

End of 2009 I purchased four [4] East Penn manufactured, FLA, Group 31, deep cycle batts at Batteries Plus store. After 8 plus years and no more than 50% drain allowed per 100% recharge... these parallel linked batteries still perform well [not as good as new - but good enough]. I use them for house bank and as starter batts for twin engines. Always keep topped off with distilled water; check water level twice per year; add when required.

We do not live close to boat so our usage frequency is not as often as some others on TF. However, we do spend 35 plus days per year aboard [35 days x 8 yrs = 280 days batt usage] . Also, I do not keep the boat hooked up to shore power and therefore no charging on batts while away from boat... occasionally up to a couple months at a time.

90% of time on boat is gentle cruise or on the hook. Don't like to stay on boat at dockside.

Cost for batts 8 yrs ago = $400 plus tax. $400 -: 8 yrs = $50 per yr... so far! We feel good with those numbers. Plan to replace with like kind when need arises.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:46 AM   #77
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"For battery charging, a specialized, very high output alternator designed for continuous max output at low rpm"
Look at a DN 50 , these alts are mounted in buses and are easily (and cheaply) available rebuilt , with no core charge. 12 or 24v 200-300A

There HEAVY , but if you want one come on by and its free.

On a GM bus they are engine mounted and gear driven but belt drive is also done.

The field current is only 7-8 Amps do a marine V reg works fine.

Bolted to a Honda gas engine with a simple voltage control, they could operate at just the required RPM to deliver the charge required , making a real quiet package.

Might be easy enough to use a second set of belts for the refrigeration , BUT the car compressors can require 10+ hp requiring a bigger gas engine.

50DN - Delco Remy

Alternators by Model Family | Delco Remy


Delco Remy 50DN™ High Output Heavy Duty Brushless Alternator. The 50DN is designed for transit bus and motor coach applications. Providing 270 amps at 24 volts the 50DN provides plenty of power at low engine speeds. The 50DN is oil cooled and offered in gear drive and belt drive configurations. FIND A PART ...
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:32 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"For battery charging, a specialized, very high output alternator designed for continuous max output at low rpm"
Look at a DN 50 , these alts are mounted in buses and are easily (and cheaply) available rebuilt , with no core charge. 12 or 24v 200-300A

There HEAVY , but if you want one come on by and its free.

On a GM bus they are engine mounted and gear driven but belt drive is also done.

The field current is only 7-8 Amps do a marine V reg works fine.

Bolted to a Honda gas engine with a simple voltage control, they could operate at just the required RPM to deliver the charge required , making a real quiet package.

Might be easy enough to use a second set of belts for the refrigeration , BUT the car compressors can require 10+ hp requiring a bigger gas engine.

50DN - Delco Remy

Alternators by Model Family | Delco Remy


Delco Remy 50DN High Output Heavy Duty Brushless Alternator. The 50DN is designed for transit bus and motor coach applications. Providing 270 amps at 24 volts the 50DN provides plenty of power at low engine speeds. The 50DN is oil cooled and offered in gear drive and belt drive configurations. FIND A PART ...


45kg !!! Indeed they are heavy!

L
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:17 AM   #79
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If it's rated 270A max, any idea of actual output at 1800rpm?

Others to look at: Eco-Tech, Zena, the 400A military ones from C.E.N.

Note that huge output specs don't actually help speed up charging time with lead, even high CAR chemistries. But with LFP full day's supply in under an hour.
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:03 PM   #80
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You've uncovered my facade. I admit to having the blowboater mentality. I'm not a real trawlerman.
Or maybe I'm just waiting for God to give me one of those power hungry boats with an electric stove, dishwasher, microwave, auto-flush toilets, and underwater strobe lights.

It wasn't under the Christmas tree.
Just how long should it take to change from that "Blowboater mentality"?

I have been happy in my change to the "dark side" way back in 1994, but I still shy away from excessive dependence upon electric accessories like those you list. I reduced the batteries from twin house banks to a single, by the simple expedient of trashing the power hungry Norcold AC/DC fridge and going with a Danfoss compressor (at 2.7 amps when running), and adding a Danfoss driven freezer (another 3 amps when running). This brought my at anchor fridge demand down enough to require only 4 6v LA GC batteries for house use.

My Motorhome, OTOH has all those electric accessories you list, including a Maytag home style fridge, so is incapable of more than a very few days "at anchor" without returning to base for a large power hose attachment to shore power. It has 8 6v LA GC batteries for house. edit" no underwater strobe lights".

I think I will hang on to my "Blowboater mentality" as long as I can.
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