Attempt to define Rec. Trawler

[eyschulman]

I have tried to get this form with no results to define what it is we are talking about in particular the recreational trawler. Here is my attempt feel free to pitch in.

 

[McGillicuddy]

well I'm not sure what tankage is required to curse all the way along the coast. Maybe a swear jar is more appropriate?

 

[O C Diver]

This ought to be entertaining.

Think you have the basics. Will be interesting to see where it goes.

Ted

 

[BruceK]

It`s like a hippopotamus; hard to describe, but when you see one, you know what it is.

 

[eyschulman]

It`s like a hippopotamus; hard to describe, but when you see one, you know what it is.

A floating hippopotamus that's a good one.

 

[boatpoker]

Why ?

 

[Nomad Willy]

eyeschulman,
I crossed out #4,5,10 and 11.

However such words as often, may have, wish to believe and common seems quite vague. Wish to believe holds a lot of water though.

There are some boats that just don't measure up in some ways. I cruised an Albin 25 for 6 years and thought it was a trawler and still do. But they aren't heavier than average boats and IMO weight is the biggest identifier of the trawler boat. Rangers look like a trawler but their hulls are almost no different than most all Bayliners and no Bayliner is a trawler.

Perhaps it's a degree thing incorporating all the characteristics known to the breed. I definitely think it takes more than looks to be a trawler. Just super heavy dosn't make it either. Many boats not trawlers are presented as trawlers because it's vogue to pilot and own a trawler now. I'll call a boat as I see it and in case you're wondering eyeschulman I think your planing boat is a trawler.

A complicated poll could be done but then we'd just have a consensus of opinions but that's all we're likely to get anyway.

 

[kulas44]

I've always said "if you really own a trawler, theres no need to ask, is this a trawler ?". You just know and there is no confusion. Everybody wants to be a trawler, and then they want to say "man I'm glad I had them big engines and flat bottom, I left that (whatever situation) way behind. Hull speed does not mean trawler,,, but high speed ability negates it.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I'll stick my neck out on this one.

Californian, OA, Rangers, and many Mainships are at least slightly questionable. They all have a planing hull and are light enough to plane. Many will disagree w me and I usually think of the Californian and Manships as trawlers but the case for them is weak.

Carver, Sea Ray,Tollycraft, and Owens are not.

The following are.
NT, GB, AT, DeFever, Cherubini, Selene, Marine Trader, Most KK, Sundowner, North Pacific, CHB, Maple Bay, Willard, Monk, Pilgrim, Senator, Coot Fu Hwa, Island Gypsy, Marben and the Chantyman.

Some of these brands are not all trawlers. I speak of the ones we see here.

 

[FlyWright]

well I'm not sure what tankage is required to curse all the way along the coast. Maybe a swear jar is more appropriate?

LOL! It says "tank age adequate for coastal cursing." I guess if you have rusty ol' tanks that start leaking in an old boat cruising the coastline, you just might have a trawler!

 

[McGillicuddy]

I call my boat a yacht. If it's less than 39' it's a cabin cruiser. ??

 

[McGillicuddy]

I'll stick my neck out on this one.

Californian, OA, Rangers, and many Mainships are at least slightly questionable. They all have a planing hull and are light enough to plane. Many will disagree w me and I usually think of the Californian and Manships as trawlers but the case for them is weak.

Carver, Sea Ray,Tollycraft, and Owens are not.

The following are.
NT, GB, AT, DeFever, Cherubini, Selene, Marine Trader, Most KK, Sundowner, North Pacific, CHB, Maple Bay, Willard, Monk, Pilgrim, Senator, Coot Fu Hwa, Island Gypsy, Marben and the Chantyman.

Some of these brands are not all trawlers. I speak of the ones we see here.

How about Cheoy Lee?

 

[kapnd]

I think a trawler is best defined as any hull that has a large condominium attached.

 

[Nomad Willy]

McGillicuddy,
Don't know them well enough and don't ever recall seeing a pic of a hull. But from pics Iv'e seen they look the part. But then some aren't that do.

What do you think and why?

 

[McGillicuddy]

To me, a trawler is a beamy displacement hull capable of carrying a load at non planing speeds. It should have long range fuel capacity and be capable of foul weather operations. These are the characteristics of commercial trawlers that some yacht manufacturers are attempting to emulate.

CL did build some cruisers that were 'Trawlers' in that sense. Mine isn't one of them. I have a semi displacement hull with a large house. More of a fast three bedroom/two bath waterborne condo.

 

[Hawgwash]

Monk

Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know if all Monk branded trawlers were actually designed by either Jr. or Sr. Monk?

I know the Monk trawlers of the 80s were built in various places including Canada's east coast. I thought there were a bunch that came out of Taiwan as non-Monk, Monks. I think I may even recall Ed Jr. trying to stop them.

 

[dhmeissner]

With apologies, I am going to quote Tad Roberts from another forum post I read in the past.

<quote>
A "Trawler Yacht" is whatever you want it to be....I've been involved in a boat sold as a "Fast Trawler" design that was nothing more than a recycled sportfisherman hull with funny windows. The term may have been relevant back in 1967 when Grand Banks first started building their 36' and 42' displacement cruisers. At that time both Edwin Monk and William Garden were using either "Diesel Cruiser" (Monk) or "Diesel Yacht" (Garden). Garden also used "Diesel Boat", which is to the point. The marketing folks didn't find these terms very catchy. Beebe reports that some referred to them as "Northwest Cruisers" but I never heard that used by anyone.
</quote>

 

[dhmeissner]

Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know if all Monk branded trawlers were actually designed by either Jr. or Sr. Monk?

I know the Monk trawlers of the 80s were built in various places including Canada's east coast. I thought there were a bunch that came out of Taiwan as non-Monk, Monks. I think I may even recall Ed Jr. trying to stop them.

Monk Sr. Passed away in 1973 he was 79 years old. I'm pretty sure the Monk 36 design was Edwin Monk Jr.

 

[Panacea]

Ahhhh... this topic again. I've never chimed in on the age old debate, but this time I will...

When my boat was built, the mission was long range cruising in a seakindly boat. I have a range of about 1,300 nm and cruise at 9 knots with a semi-displacement hull, full keel, protected running gear, and weigh about 100,000lbs. Basically, I meet all the requirements of the original post, but my boat doesn't look like an old fishing boat and have interior decor of a seafood restaurant. Is my boat still a trawler?

She is to me!

 

[dhmeissner]

Ahhhh... this topic again. I've never chimed in on the age old debate, but this time I will...

.... but my boat doesn't look like an old fishing boat and have interior decor of a seafood restaurant....

She is to me!

Now that right there is funny.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Panacea,
I said I'd call it like I see it so no your boat is not a trawler.
That said I'm calling her a planing hull w yacht like superstructure and topsides. Her hull bottom aft is perfectly straight as it appears in the pic. Her transom is raked fwd like a speed boat .. not a sea boat. If she's a basic good design and not overloaded she should be capable of motoring gracefully in some quite nasty seas but not really big ones. A beautiful boat but a yacht or large cruiser in my book. But my comments are just that .. or and 100% opinion.

Dave,
TAD said "A "Trawler Yacht" is whatever you want it to be..."
Well he's sounding a little evasive to me. But there is tons of truth in what he says (as always) but I'm thinking he really dosn't want to get into it. And in his position I have respect for that.

Hawgwash,
I'm agreeing w Dave here but I really don't know. There are so many boats called a Monk design it's hard to believe they designed all of them. I've wondered too but if I had to bet I'd go w Dave.

McGillicuddy,
The Cheoy Lee boats are more like the great yachts of the 50's called (sadly) "houseboats". Big flush deck yachts w lots of room below. The "houseboats" of the twenties had FD hulls (even fantail sterns) and some were magnificent yachts. The Choey Lee boats are one of the other large boats I'm not very (hardly at all) familiar w but if the CL has a stern that is not straight aft (I should say parallel w the WL) then maybe so. Gotta say here I'm not really sure. However if I was familiar w the CL I'd probably say yes .. a trawler. The Mainship, Californian and O Alexander are in the dono zone too. I single them out because they are straight planing hulls. The Californian looks somewhat like a trawler and employs basically a common trawler engine so they are probably trawlers. Many boats are in this middle ground like is she a blond or is she a brunette?

 

[CaptTom]

Don't overthink this.

"Trawler" is (with the exception of real fishing boats) a marketing term.

It's designed to evoke a lifestyle of comfort at a slower pace. That's all.

It's become common enough that people have a general idea what you're talking about when you use it. Like most marketing terms, it doesn't really have a hard-and-fast definition.

I keep using it, not because I'm trying to impress anyone with my boat's commercial fishing capabilities, but because people understand the term well enough to distinguish my boat from, say, a sailboat or an express cruiser.

If they really want to know more details, they'll ask. Most people don't.

 

[eyschulman]

Why ?

Why not? Afraid to get caught out in the fog? The issue cries out for clarification. It is nice when words have meaning even if the meaning in some cases is a vague term used to help sell boats. Here on this forum we talk about Trawlers so what are we talking about? A hippopotamus because we all know what that is? Well a hippopotamus can be defined. So if we all know what a trawler is when we see it, define it. Dose the definition include you have to own one or know what it is to identify one but you cant define it with words?

 

[Panacea]

Panacea,
I said I'd call it like I see it so no your boat is not a trawler.
A beautiful boat but a yacht or large cruiser in my book. But my comments are just that .. or and 100% opinion.

I can see where you're coming from. Another big difference between trawlers and yachts is the people that own them. The yachties have their nose in the air and are less fun to be around. Trawlies are laid back have more fun.

So... just to stir the pot, what about the old Hatteras LRCs? Not a trawler... just a slow heavy yacht? The bottoms are somewhere between semi displacement and planing. Is it the softer chines that make it a trawler? Ever see the chines on a steel/aluminum displacement hull? They are typically hard (see attached pic). Or are aesthetics alone what define a trawler (see planing Mainship trawler pic)?

I agree with the word "trawler" being marketing jargon. Some people get it mixed up with a "blue water passage making power boat". In reality, trawlering is a frame of mind.

 

[Hawgwash]

I'm pretty sure the Monk 36 design was Edwin Monk Jr.

In the 70s & 80s when the stampede was away from gas and sail, into slow fuel sipping boats, any family in Taiwan who could stick glass mat in resin, lived on and built "trawlers" which then flooded the NA market.

The 36 Monk was one of them.

Having been an Ed Monk fan forever, I remember at the time having some contempt for this new Taiwan creation because I believed it was being put forward as an Ed Monk design. As I said, I think I even recall Ed Jr. trying to stop the use of the Monk name.

I could be wrong but this is somewhat supported by Nova Boat Builders using the cleaver language "Designed by a legendary naval architect."
http://www.novatrawler.com/36monk.html

Boat US also described it as the "Namesake of late naval architect Edwin Monk Sr."
http://www.boatus.com/boatreviews/power/monk36.asp

My distaste for the pretendiness has tempered due to the somewhat decent track record of the post Taiwan models and what could be appealing to me, if it turned out to be a proven good choice, is the lack of import duty into Canada.

 

[dhmeissner]

Thanks for the links, Hogwash. And you know, now that I think about it you're probably right, if the Monk 36 was indeed penned by either of the NA's they would have said so. Much like the Roughwater boats that were designed by them, first by Sr. and later Jr. And as we all know Ed Monk Jr. continued on with Ocean Alexander as well as many other projects.

Heritage - Ocean Alexander

To their credit, none of the OA boats are labeled trawlers.

But then I did find this which adds to the confusion:
Monk 36 | Soundings Online

 

[Nomad Willy]

Panacea,
Points well taken.

If the Hatteras LRC are not planing and clearly SD hulls I'd throw them into the trawler ring. The Hatteras LRC are another boat I'm not very familiar with. I recognize them of course but know little about them. Mostly what I see and read here on TF. I'm probably not the person to be making these calls but the elements are the same big or small boat and over the years here no one has made much or any calls. Don't want to offend I suppose ... but I'm not intending on saying anything nasty or derogatory about a boat ( and certainly not a person).

Soft chines (SC) don't make a trawler either commercial or pleasure. SC don't make a SD hull either. Most lobster boats are planing hulls SC or not. If you can put 400hp in a lobster boat and get 35 knots it's clearly not a SD hull. SC are an element of slow or faster but not SD or planing.

The term "trawler" re rec boats wasn't a marketing term until about 25 years ago. It was just a term or name the boaters called a boat to better identify it. Commercial folks noticed in time and thought .. "hey these people like "trawler" so lets use it". I don't think commercial folks coined it or started using it. I think it evolved from boaters. Just my opinion. But as a result of the commercial element all manner of boats not even close to trawler have been called that .. mostly to sell boats.

And re your planing Mainship pic that's why I had Mainship in the questionable category.

Dave,
The Monk is in the questionable category also. I had the IG in the trawler cat but there is little difference between them. Perhaps the Monk 36 could be in the trawler cat even though they have (I'm quite sure a planing hull form sans the keel) but the keel is there. And unlike the lobsterboats I've never seen one planing. Perhaps too heavy and that is a big trawler characteristic. OK lets move the Monk 36 into the trawler cat.

 

[Hawgwash]

But then I did find this which adds to the confusion:
Monk 36 | Soundings Online

Indeed it does. Though I have not researched them much, I believe that is the first direct connection to Ed Monk I have ever seen.

Thanks for the link; time for some digging.

 

[boatpoker]

I have a range of about 1,300 nm and cruise at 9 knots with a semi-displacement hull, full keel, protected running gear, and weigh about 100,000lbs. Basically, I meet all the requirements of the original post, but my boat doesn't look like an old fishing boat and have interior decor of a seafood restaurant. Is my boat still a trawler?

She is to me!

Of course she is a trawler however the next owner may call her a motor yacht and he too would be correct. Call her what ever makes you happy but I don't see anything "protected" about that running gear.

 

[kulas44]

The KK 42 is a trawler. Nobody EVER mistakes it for anything else. They NEVER call it anything else. Even non boaty people call it a trawler. That is your bar, and its pretty high.