Article on new Waypoint 36 - Page 2

BandB · 02-22-2018, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou_tribal

To be clear, as an introduction, I am not a fond of volvo in any way so bare with me for the following question...
Looks like a lot people here are against volvo engines, may I ask for more info as of why is that?
Being from european origins, volvo has quite a good reputation for cars and trucks there so my question, just to educate myself.

L

I don't share the disdain for Volvo but do understand it. Parts prices was a big part of it, but now the other builders in their hp ranges have caught up to them. Dealer and corporate support was the other reason. I think most of that has been in the US as they're widely used and well respected in Europe. Still, in the US, you won't find the knowledge everywhere that you do on other brands. Then those two reasons lead to depressed resale values and ability to resell.

I don't know what year engines Ghost has his issues with. I personally wouldn't say no to a new boat with Volvo, but I think improvements have been made over the years, including the company becoming more supportive.

Some of the dislike you hear is justified and some may not be, but regardless, the facts are clear that in the US you will hear a more significant number of people against Volvo than any of their competitors.

BruceK · 02-23-2018, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

...Some of the dislike you hear is justified and some may not be, but regardless, the facts are clear that in the US you will hear a more significant number of people against Volvo than any of their competitors.

The dislike crosses the Pacific. A neighbour bought a like new used Riviera 40. The marina mechanic said "It has a problem, 2 problems actually,the Volvo engines".

BandB · 02-23-2018, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceK

The dislike crosses the Pacific. A neighbour bought a like new used Riviera 40. The marina mechanic said "It has a problem, 2 problems actually,the Volvo engines".

I don't have a good feel for the thoughts in Australia so interested in what you and others have to say. Just in Europe the thoughts on Volvo are far more favorable than the US.

Now, as to Marine Mechanics, they can be lousy sources. They often are very tied to one or more brands on which they're trained, certified, experience, but strongly negative toward any other brand. If it's not something they're qualified to work on then it's all bad.

BruceK · 02-23-2018, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

..... Now, as to Marine Mechanics, they can be lousy sources. They often are very tied to one or more brands on which they're trained, certified, experience, but strongly negative toward any other brand. If it's not something they're qualified to work on then it's all bad.

I`ll just speak for this one mechanic. He has no particular allegiances and will work on boat diesel engines in general. Even on gas ones, outboards, and on sterndrives(?outdrives). His concerns about Volvos are parts availability and cost,the way heat exchangers are set up,complexity causing increased servicing cost compared to other makes, things like that.
Riviera fit a lot of Volvos,also Cummins.Based on what I read on TF, the mechanics comments, other things heard locally,I tend to exclude anything with Volvos from my interest. A kind of "swipe left" I think.

sunchaser · 02-23-2018, 06:08 AM

Will Tomco provide a non Volvo engine to satisfy a new build owner's desires? Can't see why not. To be fair, a read of boat diesel finds numerous non Volvo issues. Many owner induced. Don't forget boat builder induced too, especially poor exhaust or intake system design.

Very impressed with how Cummins Northwest supported D Hayes engine swap out last year. What a great ending.

**koliver** · 02-23-2018, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunchaser

Will Tomco provide a non Volvo engine to satisfy a new build owner's desires? Can't see why not. To be fair, a read of boat diesel finds numerous non Volvo issues. Many owner induced. Don't forget boat builder induced too, especially poor exhaust or intake system design.

Very impressed with how Cummins Northwest supported D Hayes engine swap out last year. What a great ending.

Most of the anti-Volvo sentiment expressed here comes from East Coast guys with older Volvos. Their currently new engines have few or no detractors, so a general hate on Volvo seems to be an emotional rather than data based sentiment.

As for support here on the west coast, I am a beneficiary of great factory support. A Commander 30 owner couldn't get his boat from Vancouver to Bamfield as quickly as he wanted, so after Volvo was done supporting his efforts, he got a new pair of higher hp Volvos and I got his cast-off TAMD41s, at 1500 hrs. I couldn't be happier.

My mechanic was involved in the Commander deal, so I got the info from the horse's mouth. I have been impressed with the amount of support available here in SW BC, though I doubt it is the same everywhere.
I haven't heard of any other mfg going to quite the same distance for their customer.

RT Firefly · 02-23-2018, 10:37 AM

Greetings,
Mr. k. Yup, all of the information presented is anecdotal although yours is direct evidence. Like ALL service/parts situations, a lot depends on the area of the world AND the supplier (sometimes I think it also has to do with what phase the moon is in as well).
As well as MY bias against Volvo based solely on "dock talk" I'm also of the opinion that Volvo's, in general, are quite good engines until...

Hamrow · 02-23-2018, 10:50 AM

ATs have a loyal following. As an owner and having been through the factory a couple times, i can attest to the quality of the vessels and the people that build them in La Conner.
I suspect this Waypoint will do well and also help the small Tomco outfit succeed in a competitive market where it is challenging to continue to do all the manufacturing on American soil.
The American Tug models have historically been offerered with both Cummins and Volvo power, though a non-scientific search seems to favor Cummins in the past. Our 435 has a Cummins QSC and we're very pleased with it so far. We too were avoiding Volvo-powered boats during our search as i was concerned about cost of maintenance, but perhaps the newer Volvos will do better.
I haven't asked them but i suspect Tomco would be willing to work a Cummins into that boat... if not now then perhaps after they have cranked out the first few Waypoints...

nwboater · 02-23-2018, 10:59 AM

Why not a diesel outboard instead of the Volvo inboard? Swap the dinette for a sofa and reverse their location...or, delete the guest quarters for a cozy sofa/bed plus more storage.

**koliver** · 02-23-2018, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RT Firefly

Greetings,
Mr. k. Yup, all of the information presented is anecdotal although yours is direct evidence. Like ALL service/parts situations, a lot depends on the area of the world AND the supplier (sometimes I think it also has to do with what phase the moon is in as well).
As well as MY bias against Volvo based solely on "dock talk" I'm also of the opinion that Volvo's, in general, are quite good engines until...

Time to stop repeating or even listening to "Dock Talk" that is not supported by actual evidence?

RT Firefly · 02-23-2018, 12:05 PM

Greetings,
Mr. k. Isn't the majority of the communication on TF dock talk?

ancora · 02-23-2018, 12:45 PM

We've owned our twin Volvo powered trawler for 18 years and we concur with the above. Volvo deserves it's reputation as offering the worst customer service in the industry.

sunchaser · 02-23-2018, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koliver

Time to stop repeating or even listening to "Dock Talk" that is not supported by actual evidence?

Indeed.

Along with dock talk, owner induced issues seem to weigh heavily on stated diesel engine problems. As Pogo said many decades ago, " I have seen the enemy and he is us."

sunchaser · 02-23-2018, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancora

We've owned our twin Volvo powered trawler for 18 years and we concur with the above. Volvo deserves it's reputation as offering the worst customer service in the industry.

But yet you've kept the boat for all these years and not thrown out the engines.

ancora · 02-23-2018, 01:45 PM

Why should I? The engines are good, it's the factory support that is lacking. There is not one dedicated (Volvo only) dealer in North America.

sunchaser · 02-23-2018, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancora

Why should I? The engines are good, it's the factory support that is lacking. There is not one dedicated (Volvo only) dealer in North America.

Thanks for the clarity. Sounds like you and Mule have a lot in common in many areas. He doesn't like Westerbeke factory support and you feel the same about Volvo.

Fletcher500 · 02-23-2018, 03:18 PM

My opinion is not based on anecdotal dock talk. It was my personal experience and they were not older engines. Personally, I wouldn't consider a boat with Volvo. The service and parts price issues are real. Most of the new EC's in the 40 to 50 ft. range are using Volvo because they are cheaper. There are reasons a new Volvo engine is cheaper than a new Cummins or Cat.

ancora · 02-24-2018, 12:29 PM

Gettin' back to Tomco, does that new boat have a cored hull or is it solid glass?

Hamrow · 03-08-2018, 01:52 PM

Tomco generally does solid glass below the water line and cored in the upper structures.

As for the Volvo; I'm hearing it was picked for the Waypoint partly because there was not a comparable Cummins in that size/power footprint to fit the boat, keeping in mind the Penta D4 is a fairly compact 4-cylinder producing 260hp.