Around the world on soybean power. Does anyone know this boat?

[Oeanda]

I posted this on CF but - no bites. It is a long shot. But maybe Trawler Forum is a more appropriate place anyway.

Many years ago now (about 30 years now already, wow…) I listened to a very interesting radio interview with a fellow who circumnavigated in a boat powered by soybean oil. Pretty sure he was the first if not the only one who has done this. He had some interesting stories and said he was planning to write a book about the experience. I never was able to find his story online, or his book if he did indeed write it. I suspect he never did write it. I also forgot his name after the interview. Something like Peterson though, I believe. Does anyone know of the guy I mean? Thanks!

 

[Simi 60]

Earthrace.

https://www.wired.com/2007/12/around-the-worl/

 

[friz]

I will assume it was powering a diesel engine? Rudolph Diesel's first fuel was peanut oil. I believe just about any vegetable oil can fuel a diesel engine.

 

[OldDan1943]

No followup after that article.
3000 gallons of fuel and 3 gallons of human fat..... I would not consider that, running on renewable oil other than recycling the dinosaur the old fashion way.

 

[HTurner]

https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1995/vp950309/03070042.htm

 

[jgwinks]

The University research vessels I ran 15 years ago burned 99% soy oil. They ran very well on it, so clean that the lube oil looked almost the same at 100 hours as it did coming out of the jug. Actually made it harder to check the oil, you couldn't see it on the stick. Not as energy rich as petro, we burned about 5% more per hour. NOAA had a couple boats near us that ran on it too, the delivery guy said they and us were the only ones around here using it at that time.

 

[OldDan1943]

Did they use "new" or recycled soybean oil?
Even at today's prices, I suspect diesel will still be less expensive

 

[Oeanda]

HTurner found the one I was thinking of. https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1995/vp950309/03070042.htm

His name was Bryan Peterson. He putted along in an inflatable of sorts using biodiesel. In the radio interview he described it as being mainly soybean oil, if I remember correctly. I’ll dig around more now that I’ve got that info. It was just something that stuck in my mind over the years, partly because the guy had some interesting stories to tell. None of them particularly related to biodiesel.

Thanks all for the replies. Very interesting. That so-called ‘human fat power’ venture… interesting too, thanks Simi. Not really the most appealing sounding label is it?

 

[KnotYet]

Did they use "new" or recycled soybean oil?
Even at today's prices, I suspect diesel will still be less expensive

There is an important difference between vegetable oil and biodiesel fuel.

Waste vegetable oil or WVO which is often used in vehicles after some filtration
can essentially be free depending on where you get it.
I have used WVO in my VW TDI which was converted to pre-warm and filter it.
WVO would not be a good choice for a boat where storing it for months could be iffy.

Biodiesel is a manufactured product which has the advantage of needing no
on-vehicle pre-warming and can be used in almost any diesel engine.
The cost of biodiesel is often pegged to the cost of petro-diesel but obviously
those costs will depend on the source oil price and governmental involvement.

 

[Oeanda]

Now that I have the name right I’m digging up more info.

Around the World on Biodiesel | BiodieselMagazine.com

In 1994, Peterson completed a 35,000-mile, two-year trip around the world in a 24-foot soft-sided, Zodiac boat powered almost exclusively with B100. The expedition was funded by the United Soybean Board and 130 other government and corporate sponsors from 14 nations. It was the first documented example of B100 being used in a major marine application by an American.

 

[ofer]

very interesting i was wondering if he used the yanmar outboard. the last article mentioned it was only used as a backup. i still have one today

 

[klee wyck]

Drift warning....
Biofuels discussions raise my blood pressure quickly.
I benefit financially when use of biofuels increases. Significantly.
Biofuels place an increasing demand on everything I produce and therefore raise prices considerably. Financially, I win.
Yet, I consider biofuels policy some of the worst policy I have witnessed in my lifetime. Biofuels are just another way to burn carbon, something we suggest we are interested in getting away from.
But the huge problem for me is that biofuels represent in the simplest form a way to take food off of poor people's tables in order to burn it in rich people's vehicles. The fundamental idea of this is barbaric to the extent that I almost consider biofuel mandates as a crime against humanity.

The minority report........

 

[DavidM]

Biofuels are just another way to burn carbon, something we suggest we are interested in getting away from.

But the huge problem for me is that biofuels represent in the simplest form a way to take food off of poor people's tables in order to burn it in rich people's vehicles. The fundamental idea of this is barbaric to the extent that I almost consider biofuel mandates as a crime against humanity.

I totally agree with the last paragraph quoted above. Just like ethanol in gasoline, it takes farmland, cultivation and processing resources and burns it to benefit the growers and the processors.

But that first sentence above, not so much. When soy beans are grown, they capture CO2 in the atmosphere and through photosynthesis convert it to sugar, carbohydrates and fatty acids. When you burn it in a diesel engine you are just returning the C to the atmosphere as CO2. The cycle is carbon neutral. Cultivation and processing impacts are another issue but I suspect that soy based biodiesel isn't as bad as ethanol which takes a huge amount of energy to process.

David

 

[klee wyck]

But that first sentence above, not so much. When soy beans are grown, they capture CO2 in the atmosphere and through photosynthesis convert it to sugar, carbohydrates and fatty acids. When you burn it in a diesel engine you are just returning the C to the atmosphere as CO2. The cycle is carbon neutral. Cultivation and processing impacts are another issue but I suspect that soy based biodiesel isn't as bad as ethanol which takes a huge amount of energy to process.

David

I agree that taking carbon from the atmosphere and then returning it to the atmosphere is less of an affront than taking it from the ground and emitting it to the atmosphere. No contest. And BTW congratulations for being among the very small crowd that has considered this (unlike the cow haters which have not acknowledged the same when cows emit carbon captured from the atmosphere via plant photosynthesis).

However, if you really want to give up food producing assets in order to supply energy, you will be better off not growing the soybeans or corn at all and just planting PV on those acres. No carbon involved.

 

[phillippeterson]

A good video on the ethanol fallacy.

 

[Oeanda]

Can’t disagree with the failure of Big Corn to magically provide a free lunch for us. No free lunch. To be fair the perspective was different when this guy did his trip 30 years ago. It was worth a try.

Anyway, the story interested me at the time I overheard it simply because of some of his boating stories, which didn’t really have anything to do with biodiesel. One of his experiences was motoring through the night on a flat calm moonless night with a sky full of stars and a long wake of phosphorescence trailing out behind him, all perfectly reflected in the water. So he had the overwhelming illusion that he was travelling through space, for about eight hours or so. It sounded pretty magical

 

[Datenight]

But the huge problem for me is that biofuels represent in the simplest form a way to take food off of poor people's tables in order to burn it in rich people's vehicles. The fundamental idea of this is barbaric to the extent that I almost consider biofuel mandates as a crime against humanity.

The minority report........

Thank you Bill. I have said this since the first corn fortified gasoline came on the market.

Rob

 

[Slowmo]

When Biodiesel first appeared on the scene it was bad news. It wasn't 'diesel' at all it was an ester which was chemically unstable and would deteriorate in a matter of months. Not good on boat. However current bio diesels actually go through a hydrocracking process and end up with a stable and high cetane diesel. Now that doesn't get into the area of whether its the right thing to do, but certainly running things like used vegetable oils through and getting more use out of them isn't a bad thing. Diverting food to fuel though is astoundingly stupid.

 

[klee wyck]

When Biodiesel first appeared on the scene it was bad news. It wasn't 'diesel' at all it was an ester which was chemically unstable and would deteriorate in a matter of months. Not good on boat. However current bio diesels actually go through a hydrocracking process and end up with a stable and high cetane diesel. Now that doesn't get into the area of whether its the right thing to do, but certainly running things like used vegetable oils through and getting more use out of them isn't a bad thing. Diverting food to fuel though is astoundingly stupid.

Apologies for derailing again but the central planning gets really asinine in this realm and you are from CA so that brought it to mind.
CA has a renewable fuel mandate that went into effect a few years ago that is creating strange circumstances in rural America now.
If you want to sell natural gas in CA, some percentage of it must come from renewable sources(I think 20%?). This has created obscene premiums for renewable gas such that when natural gas from fossil sources was less than$5 per MMBTU, the price for renewables that would get that gas into California has gone up to over $85/MMBTU!!. This has caused the energy companies to want to fund extremely large dairies in areas like Kansas just to create digestors that cause manure to turn into methane which is then piped to CA (or not) to get the rest of their gas qualified to sell in CA.
I have a client that has been offered $30 million in funding if he builds a 25k cow dairy, not because we need the milk, but because we need the methane in order to sell more fossil gas in CA.

Really folks, you cannot make this crap up. It borders on obscene, state sponsored foolishness.
Makes me crazy......

 

[friz]

Concerning "crimes against humanity" etc. I have got to think they were pulling our collective legs.

 

[OldDan1943]

Yup off topic until you get to the last paragraph.
I remember when Nordhavn sent 3 of its boats to Bermuda. They sent one of their smallest boat and 2 larger boats to shepherd the smallest boat. They transferred fuel to the smallest boat via a pump and a garden hose..... Of course they had a complement of engineers and spare parts onboard the 3 boats.
All 3 boats made it to Bermuda. The important conclusion was, yes the smallest boat could and did successfully make the voyage BUT Nordhavn strongly discouraged anyone else from trying it.

So you see, although the diesel will run successfully on other 'oil', give serious consideration to avoiding any other fuel besides diesel. If it were less expensive every boat owner would jump on the idea.
These guy were proving it possible but, is it worth the hassle. Is the 'prepared' fuel readily available, in your cruise area, I think not.

As always, your boat, do what you wish.

 

[skipperguy]

just sayin'

no way to be sure but does anyone know the long term risks to inhalation of soybean oil fumes ?....................LOL.

Many years ago now (about 30 years now already, wow…) I listened to a very interesting radio interview with a fellow who circumnavigated in a boat powered by soybean oil. Pretty sure he was the first if not the only one who has done this. He had some interesting stories and said he was planning to write a book about the experience. I never was able to find his story online, or his book if he did indeed write it. I suspect he never did write it. I also forgot his name after the interview. Something like Peterson though, I believe. Does anyone know of the guy I mean? Thanks![/QUOTE]

 

[Jarrow Lily]

I will assume it was powering a diesel engine? Rudolph Diesel's first fuel was peanut oil. I believe just about any vegetable oil can fuel a diesel engine.

He also had a semi diesel with a platinum hot tube running on finely powdered coal dust. Ship huge marine engines start on light oil and once warm and running switch to heavy oil heated and thinned by the running engines waste heat.


We had a local Flour Mill explode when they stopped the water wheel power and put in a steam engine. The fine particles of loose flour from the milling process were ignited when the boiler doors were opened for more coal.


ICE fuel does not have to be liquid or gaseous...................

 

[PNK]

I used to have some involvement with recycling cooking oil for fuel before I retired several years ago, and it has become a pretty big business. US production alone is around 6% of petroleum product production, but many other countries also produce large volumes. I believe the biggest company in this business exclusively is Renewable Energy Group, but most of the big oil companies are also producing bio fuel. I used to run one of my tractors with it, but never a boat.
It is actually cheaper than diesel per gallon, but as some of you said it doesn't have an equivalent energy content, so the true cost is probably higher than diesel. It can be made from almost any vegetable or animal oil, but as several pointed out it doesn't last as long as petroleum fuels, so going around the world on soybean oil would be risky, but for local boating it is probably fine. Generally it burns more cleanly than petro-diesel, but before trying it you might want to be sure there is nothing in your engine warranty that would cause problems in case of a future claim.
You can fill up with it at many gas stations, especially in California, but I don't remember ever seeing it available at a marina, although now with diesel becoming so expensive that could change!

 

[Austinsailor]

https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1995/vp950309/03070042.htm

I had forgotten about this, and never heard whether he was successful.

I was taking a welding course at Austin Community College in Texas and he and the boat were in the shop. They were using the shop’s equipment and volunteers to build a cabin and other equipment on it. The metal was donated from somewhere. I wondered if he ever made it anywhere. Seemed like a wild Eye’d dream at the time. I didn’t work on it - I was busy welding up tanks for my own boat!

 

[Brooksie]

Saw her many years ago in FL and had a chance to examine her. Joint venture w/ Cummins. Last I knew engine blew at a very inconvenient time and place and that trip was never finished. Sure was an odd and fragile looking thing as I recall.