Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-08-2021, 09:47 PM   #1
Guru
 
Adopo's Avatar
 
City: SC
Vessel Name: Calypso
Vessel Model: 1981 Fairchild Scout
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 608
Case in point on boat prices today

So I've been looking for a while, biding my time but sometimes you just feel like giving up. Missed the boat so to speak by waiting for things to cool down.

Heres a case in point. I go to various boats sites like yachtworld every day to see what's new. I like the DeFevere 52, nice looking lines etc and came across this one today, a 2014 asking $1,199,000 and having limited pictures I though I would check out soldboats to see if it was listed as sold in the past with better pictures.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/201...house-8142928/

So here are the results for this particular boat Anna.

Actual sales price listed in sold boats

2014 $1.027mm
July 2018 $695
March 2020 $685

Now asking $1.199


A 2016 also sold recently, in one day in Hilton Head Island where we just purchased a 60 ft slip in Harbour Town. Hate I missed this one as it was right there.

Nov 2020 $790
Aug 2021 $925

So the boat market is like the housing market, just off the hook with no slowdown in sight. I guess to sum it up I am too cautions with money and not cautious enough with time. I guess I am just going to have to accept that time is running out and just where the value really is. What we have belongs to someone else when we die. Experiences will always be ours. Why am I struggling with this truism.
Adopo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2021, 10:24 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,267
As you posted, it comes down to time.

Are you willing to bet against your life clock?

I am leaving to go cruising on my 60th birthday.
Yes people retire earlier, but darn few that I know.

I am not rich, but I'll have enough. It is not worth betting against my life clock. The chance that I'll never go if I wait.

You are in the same situation, tick tick tick Time keeps ticking away.

Perhaps that is some of what is fueling the current boat buying spree. We all probably know of someone that died early in the last two years.

Maybe, just maybe folks are unwilling to make the bet. Maybe they are looking at things and thinking it's their time, or never.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788 Dos Peces
Seward, Alaska - La Paz, Baja California Sur
https://maps.findmespot.com/s/XLJZ#history/assets
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2021, 11:32 PM   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
As you posted, it comes down to time.

Are you willing to bet against your life clock?

I am leaving to go cruising on my 60th birthday.
Yes people retire earlier, but darn few that I know.

I am not rich, but I'll have enough. It is not worth betting against my life clock. The chance that I'll never go if I wait.

You are in the same situation, tick tick tick Time keeps ticking away.

Perhaps that is some of what is fueling the current boat buying spree. We all probably know of someone that died early in the last two years.

Maybe, just maybe folks are unwilling to make the bet. Maybe they are looking at things and thinking it's their time, or never.
+1. We retired at 60 8 years ago. Absolutely love it. We sold our last boat in June and bought our current one in August. Not much on the market them and I paid the asking price because we wanted it and it was the last boat in the Great Lakes area that we had any interest in. That is just the way it is now. Will it change, yes sometime but do you feel lucky that you will live that long and what about the years before that you are missing our on?
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 04:57 AM   #4
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
+1. We retired at 60 8 years ago. Absolutely love it. We sold our last boat in June and bought our current one in August. Not much on the market them and I paid the asking price because we wanted it and it was the last boat in the Great Lakes area that we had any interest in. That is just the way it is now. Will it change, yes sometime but do you feel lucky that you will live that long and what about the years before that you are missing our on?
And that is why we are selling our boat. We want to travel world-wide but cannot keep the boat and do both. We love the boat and boating and have completed a Great Loop but it's time to move on to something new while we still have our health (early 70's). It's going to kill me to sell after putting heart and soul into bringing this vessel back to near perfect. Oh well.

I have a dear friend who retired at 53yo cuz he could. He and his wife were quite frugal. The wife always has used teabags twice. Anyway, not ever having had kids, today they are quite wealthy. I have been telling them for 15 years to start spending, travel, do something. Nope. Well, today my friend can hardly walk and he is just finishing a regimen of chemo after having a kidney removed. I think my friends became so accustomed to accumulating money that they cannot brings themselves to spend it. Money in the bank is nice but, beyond a certain point, having it is no better than not having it cuz it will only be enjoyed by someone else when you die.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 06:09 AM   #5
Veteran Member
 
JustCruisin's Avatar
 
City: Delmar
Vessel Name: Friar Tuck
Vessel Model: 1987 Monk 36
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 34
About a year ago my wife and I decided to buy a trawler and take some time and go cruising. I am mostly retired and she is fully retired. I am 59....anyway, we started shopping after much research into what we needed/wanted and could afford. We decided on a Monk 36 and bought a nice one, just got it to our home port last week. We missed out on two others that came for sale this fall as we could not get to them quick enough. Both sold for asking price. So if you are looking and know what you want you have to act fast, the nice boats that come to market are selling fast, even at somewhat inflated prices. I don't see prices coming down at all. Nobody really builds old style trawler boats anymore, and the newer cruisers are way out of my league. The inventory of nice used boats is getting smaller and the demand is ever increasing...my advice is don't wait.
JustCruisin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 06:24 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
City: Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 203
True story other than the names: I will call my clients Sam and Sue. They called me about a listing, a cold call, and shortly thereafter flew from TX to FL and spent 2 days looking at boats with me. Whether price or whatever, they didn't find anything that compelled them to pull out their ink pen. They would call periodically, fly to wherever to see boats, but over about a year's time, they never found the right one at the right price in the right location.

Was it "paralysis by analysis?" Perhaps, but I knew they considered themselves serious buyers. I got a call one night from Sue. She said Sam's funeral was the next day and she wanted to fly me to Texas for the funeral. After expressing my sympathies and appreciation for the offer, I asked "why?" I mean we really weren't very close and hadn't spent so many hours together. Sue explained that she and Sam talked about boats at dinner almost every night. They talked boats on their car-rides. She said that I had become so much a part of helping to fulfill a dream never lived, that she wanted me to be part of Sam's funeral. Sam was 62.

Almost the same story with Alan. After a few years of boat shopping and gaps in time, making several lowball offers, Alan and "Ann" made a successful offer on a boat in Fl. Alan cancelled the sea trial for the next week because he was having some testing done. He died a week later. While Alan was maybe 70, this story is only a year old. I had recommended TF to Alan and I believe he was a member here.

I have more of those stories. Only you can put a price on risk/reward theory.

The money you save by waiting for the right price or right boat, might be money never spent.
Judy at JWY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 08:41 AM   #7
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinajack View Post
And that is why we are selling our boat. We want to travel world-wide but cannot keep the boat and do both. We love the boat and boating and have completed a Great Loop but it's time to move on to something new while we still have our health (early 70's). It's going to kill me to sell after putting heart and soul into bringing this vessel back to near perfect. Oh well.

I have a dear friend who retired at 53yo cuz he could. He and his wife were quite frugal. The wife always has used teabags twice. Anyway, not ever having had kids, today they are quite wealthy. I have been telling them for 15 years to start spending, travel, do something. Nope. Well, today my friend can hardly walk and he is just finishing a regimen of chemo after having a kidney removed. I think my friends became so accustomed to accumulating money that they cannot brings themselves to spend it. Money in the bank is nice but, beyond a certain point, having it is no better than not having it cuz it will only be enjoyed by someone else when you die.

Very good points. It's a known condition that it's hard for people to spend their money after they spent a lifetime saving it. In the end, it's just numbers on paper that get moved around, and many of us will never spend what they saved. My MIL passed a few years back. Lived very frugally. You would think she was poor. It's amazing how much she had squirrled away in several banks and a safe deposit box.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 08:52 AM   #8
Guru
 
mvweebles's Avatar
 
City: Saint Petersburg
Vessel Name: Weebles
Vessel Model: 1970 Willard 36 Trawler
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 7,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judy at JWY View Post
True story other than the names: I will call my clients Sam and Sue. They called me about a listing, a cold call, and shortly thereafter flew from TX to FL and spent 2 days looking at boats with me. Whether price or whatever, they didn't find anything that compelled them to pull out their ink pen. They would call periodically, fly to wherever to see boats, but over about a year's time, they never found the right one at the right price in the right location.

Was it "paralysis by analysis?" Perhaps, but I knew they considered themselves serious buyers. I got a call one night from Sue. She said Sam's funeral was the next day and she wanted to fly me to Texas for the funeral. After expressing my sympathies and appreciation for the offer, I asked "why?" I mean we really weren't very close and hadn't spent so many hours together. Sue explained that she and Sam talked about boats at dinner almost every night. They talked boats on their car-rides. She said that I had become so much a part of helping to fulfill a dream never lived, that she wanted me to be part of Sam's funeral. Sam was 62.

Almost the same story with Alan. After a few years of boat shopping and gaps in time, making several lowball offers, Alan and "Ann" made a successful offer on a boat in Fl. Alan cancelled the sea trial for the next week because he was having some testing done. He died a week later. While Alan was maybe 70, this story is only a year old. I had recommended TF to Alan and I believe he was a member here.

I have more of those stories. Only you can put a price on risk/reward theory.

The money you save by waiting for the right price or right boat, might be money never spent.
Stories like these are sure sobering. For many who have some good fortune or good luck, there comes a point where you can no longer ignore or deny - you are past the halfway mark in life. The currency in life changes from money/wealth to time, the most prescious of alll commodities.

I have owned my Willard 36 for 23-years. I do not remember the exact selling price, but it was top dollar for the time. I do not mean to disrespect the value of a hard-earned dollar, but between houses, properties, and boats, I've made several major purchases over the years and bargained hard for the best price. But in hindsight, once I have purchased, the actual purchase price becomes inconsequential. It's what you do with the asset that counts.

My point is that buying-in to this market takes a strong stomach. But in the end, the TCO of a boat involves much more than purchase, and boats are lousy investments. These are discretionary purchase dollars. If you want and can use a boat now, many people can afford a small haircut due to market conditions.

Peter
__________________
_______________________________________
Cruising our 1970 Willard 36 trawler from California to Florida
Join our Instagram page @MVWeebles to follow along
mvweebles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 09:31 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
City: madisonville la
Vessel Name: Princess M
Vessel Model: 2006 Mainship 34
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 149
My wife and I were able to retire early not by living within our means but below our means! The decade we have owned "sleep aboard " boats has been the best 10 years our our lives. Sorry to sound preachy but to live the "good old days" requires 3 thing. Time,some disposable money, and health! Health is usually the one to go first! This applies to men earlier than women as the life insurance tables predict. I say go far it!
keith c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 10:04 AM   #10
Guru
 
City: West coast
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,137
If inflation affects new boat prices, all else being equal that will support used boat prices.
Boat proves will only come down when demand decreases due to an economic event like 2008. Until then …

As for the big jump in the historical “Anna” first mentioned by the OP, I wonder if upgrades such as new electronics were a cause too?
bowball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 10:07 AM   #11
Guru
 
RCook's Avatar


 
City: Holladay, UT
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 841
Retired at age 51. We've been able to cruise BC and SEAK almost every summer since 96 - priceless! From a 22-footer, we moved to a 26, now a 37. Each seemed like a financial stretch at the time, but no question each has been worth it.

Assuming my somewhat worn-out knee gets fixed reasonably well, plan to keep cruising for many more summers. But who knows what health challenges may come up. I also say GO FOR IT if you can swing the costs. Doesn't have to be million-dollar boat.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37-065) Poulsbo WA
Previously: New Moon (Bounty 257), Cindy Sea (C-Dory 22 Cruiser)
"Cruising in a Big Way"
RCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 10:09 AM   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,267
In 2003 I was searching for a new boat in the 30 foot range. I saw on boat trader I think, a listing for a Uniflite 36. The photos were nice so I called the owner.

We spent an hour on the phone. He was a surgeon, and had dreamed of traveling to Alaska by boat. He had bought this boat to restore into perfect condition and go cruising. It had new engines, new everything. A complete professional ground up refit.

He told me that he was so sad that he started too late. Yes he enjoyed his work, so much that he mis timed his own body. Now it was too late for him, his body had declined too much in the last couple years to make the trip.

I got the feeling that if someone wanted his boat and were going to Alaska he would almost give it to them, if they would just share their story with him. If they would just live his dream.

Very sad indeed. I did not buy the boat, as in the end the cabin layout was not what I was after, but I will always remember his story.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788 Dos Peces
Seward, Alaska - La Paz, Baja California Sur
https://maps.findmespot.com/s/XLJZ#history/assets
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 10:28 AM   #13
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,937
Inflation and the rising cost of fuel may actually reduce demand and scare off some potential buyers if we don't get that under control. We all know, fuel is not the most expensive part of boating , but those coming into boating or switching from sailing make it a big factor.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 10:30 AM   #14
Guru
 
City: Galveston, Texas
Vessel Model: 24" El Pescador
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 744
I sold my business effective 1/1/2016. Had been shopping for boats in the PNW for 2 years. Numerous trips to Seattle and BC area to look at boats, Seattle Boat Show etc.



Visited with a financial advisor to get a little "hand-holding" that my financial position could afford a boat in the $250k range--he said yes, not a problem so we bought a 52' North Pacific in the $450k range :-)


Lot of work, upgrades, etc--outfitting the boat the way I wanted and we spent about 6 months in each of the next two years-April and into October running from Anacortes to Glacier Bay & back.
GREAT TRIPS!!
I would do it again in a minute, wife loved it but some health problems caused her to want to not do it again.
I think we lucked out and sold the boat before the chinese virus hit and avoided a year or two of a boat in a slip that couldn't go anywhere.


We sold the boat we bought in the $450k range for the same $450k. So--I have avoided adding up how much we put into the boat (it was a lot) but that was the cost of a years worth of exciting vacation in the most beautiful boating environment on the planet.



Well worth it in my opinion. Glad we did it when we did and sorry we didn't/couldn't continue.
I agree it is difficult to evolve from the saving mode to the spending mode. I still work 2-1/2 days a week but it is more out of the need of the business (difficult to find employees) than me needing more money.


Check your finances and if they work....implement your plan
__________________
Ken Diestler
Galveston, Tx
ktdtx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 10:41 AM   #15
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Wifey B: The price of a boat only matters at one instance on one day. The pleasure one can bring is infinite.

I believe in saving but not just "because." Our purpose was always for retirement with dreams of water, mostly targeting the TN River although some thought of Myrtle Beach. We didn't save to accumulate or to be misers, but with goals in mind. We didn't deprive ourselves but enjoyed ourselves as much as possible while working and using our boat on the lake where we loved being.

Plan A was retire when hubby turned 60. I'm 9 years younger.

Dream and Plan B was to retire when hubby turned 55.

Actually, Plan C had recently given us thought which was retire at 50 and enjoy our home and boat on the lake.

It was always known to us that when we reached the point we would enjoy the lifestyle we wanted, it was goodbye to jobs even though we both loved our jobs. Our ultimate decision didn't really surprise hubby's boss as he knew us both well and knew living came above job.

So, in 2012 we take our first Florida vacation. (Him 41 and almost 42, me just turned 33). We love Fort Lauderdale, enjoy Disneyworld, and on Saturday night at the end of the first week, we're laying in bed in a hotel near Tampa and checking emails and other things and suddenly.....

Some good news and it hits us and hubby calculates and I say yes yes yes yes yes and right there around midnight we decide to retire. We didn't wait a month or a week or a day to decide. First moment we saw we could, we did.

We called and gave notices on Monday. We met with a realtor on Sunday. We looked at all the aspects of moving over the weekend. We were all in. Now are we fully retired? Well, hubby's little business hobby got way out of control but except during pandemic we only work on average 2 days a month and I do a lot of free education consulting plus we ended up directing a school. Still, we're free to do mostly what we want, when we want. Life started anew at that moment and we've embraced it all. New place, new friends, new family, new.

It's nothing as we imagined it being, not even where, but it's better. However, I think the two things that we can share are 1-Have a plan, a dream, a purpose behind the saving. 2-When the opportunity hits, grab it and ride it forever.

We dreamed of boating up and down the TN River. We dreamed of being able to visit in Myrtle Beach and not having to get back home to work. Our savings always had a purpose. We never deprived ourselves to save but we did think. I remember when we lived in a house on the water we paid $180k for and renovated for another $40k or so, a steal, people pushing homes in a country club development to us at $2 million. We laughed, then hubby calculated and we laughed harder. He would say something like "would you trade 5 years of retirement for that house?"

But when the epiphany and good luck hit us in 2012, the question was do you want to work or retire, want to save more or go now? The answer was clear. We're active, we work at different things, but we control our lives. See, the 9 years since, we have in our bank of life. We don't know the future. If anything has become apparent the past two years, none of us know. But we can't lose the last 9 years and it's been wonderful. He's now 51 and I'm 42 (omg I hate typing that) and we're healthy but we don't know about our plans for 60 or 55, whether we'll even reach those ages. We may have 40 more years or 0. You've got to grab hold of life and all it offers when you can. We did that when we worked. We had jobs we loved and loved where we lived and turned down all sorts of "opportunities" elsewhere, that might have even moved retirement sooner but sacrificed our enjoyment of life along the way. Most can't retire at the ages we did, but way too many stories like Judy wrote about. Can you retire and afford boat A now but work two more years and get boat B, well would you rather enjoy the next two years on boat A or work? Boat B might never come.

You only control the present. You build for the future but don't control it, sadly. But the present you control and there are always choices. Make the one that will bring you happiness and think selfishly of your happiness, don't do what others think. Omg can you imagine the questions we got. "You're retiring? You're too young to retire." I worked with so many teachers who targeted full teachers retirement. 30 years or 25 years and 60 years old or 5 years and 65 years old. So many were so close when illness or tragedy hit their families. Now, it's part of life and most people must work until 65 or even older. Most people don't have the choice. Most people aren't as blessed as we are or others in this discussion are. I love my life as it is but had we had the choice of waiting another 15 years for this or just retiring and enjoying our boat on the lake, we'd have both chosen boat on the lake.

Ultimately, pursue happiness. They need to teach that in school. Do what makes you happy in life. I loved teaching and he loved business. But we both love whatever it is we do now as well.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 10:41 AM   #16
Guru
 
ofer's Avatar
 
City: Homer, Ak
Vessel Name: Unicorn
Vessel Model: 1970 50' DEFEVER OFFSHORE CRUISER Timber
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith c View Post
My wife and I were able to retire early not by living within our means but below our means!
!!!!!!
I strongly believe that is retirement. many ignore this and "retire" prior to retirement.

can't save forever all is left above ground for the living. if you think you need to leave some $ to your loved ones...Why? you may not approve on how they spent your inheritance.

I have formulated a plan to leave $1.00 in my bank account to be split by my three children. yes, I love them to death.
ofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 10:58 AM   #17
Guru
 
backinblue's Avatar
 
City: Stratford, CT
Vessel Name: Blue Moon
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 355
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,937
good plan, I agree!
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson
backinblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 11:00 AM   #18
Guru
 
City: West coast
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,137
Too much talk of retirement.

As Frank Lloyd Wright said, take care of the luxuries and the necessities will take care of themselves.
bowball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 11:12 AM   #19
TF Site Team
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,828
Lots of good advice here, however... recognize that it is a BIG adjustment when approaching or in early retirement.
Our mantra has always live within your means and you will do fine. Those that have the "I wants" can get in trouble. With the above attitude its a big adjustment to go from saving for retirement to spending in retirement. I think the same love within your means still applies but it takes some work and frequently help from a neutral financial planner to help understand what your means are in retirement. Its easy when earning difficult when tapping savings, retirement, SS etc. I think the real savers while working struggle opening the check book in retirement. Develop a plan of what the necessities are and whats available for luxuries/ disposable spending. Then set some priorities & goals and go for it.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 11:53 AM   #20
Guru
 
City: Owings, Md
Vessel Name: Graceland
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 MK1
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by ofer View Post

I have formulated a plan to leave $1.00 in my bank account to be split by my three children. yes, I love them to death.
My parents are following the same plan, and I am extremely grateful for it. Dementia runs rampant in my family, on both sides. We watched our otherwise healthy elder family members loss all capacity to operate independently by their early to mid eighties (they were probably going down hill much earlier then we knew).

My parents have always lived below their means and did retire early, are ski bums half the year and enjoy traveling abroad or cruising their boat the rest of the year. Currently my father's nearest sibling is fully beset the by the disorder but so far my father is doing well. My siblings and I will never know for sure if my parents active lifestyle is improving their odds of avoiding dementia but it certainly isn't hurting and they are making the most of every day. There is truly nothing to lose by their approach. My mother promises to ski off the side of a mountain before she loses her memory, which is probably a little overboard but they aren't slowing down now.

Their current boat is modest by the standards of most on this forum but they were genuinely self conscious about it with regards to me and my siblings as it exceeded the price of every home they purchased or built (although they are worth far more now) but fortunately my siblings and I don't consider it any of our business and we would much prefer to visit them at a marina than a nursing home.
Gdavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012