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Old 02-06-2018, 05:55 PM   #21
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Good for you. I don't think I'll find a $25 per day tech around where I live.

I am not in $25/day land......yet.

And one mans tech is another's counting to 5. Boatbuilding and repair work is easy for those who do it for a living.

I reckon you guys have to travel a lot less miles to find cheap countries than me. I have an 8000nm trip ahead of me so will be going for good when we do it.
You can just nip down the road to a yard in mexico , panama or similar for big savings, surely.
Summer vacation and a refit
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Old 02-06-2018, 06:56 PM   #22
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Annual costs...

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And reality/maths.



Like I pointed out, do you really think people with, for example, a Fleming 55 spend 10% or

$250,000 a year on maintenance?


Maybe not ONLY maintenance, but complete ownership costs? Yes. Well... maybe a little less, but the 10% number is not a rule... it is a suggestion... a guesstimate... quoting it as a hard and fast certainty is not in the spirit of the thread.
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Old 02-06-2018, 06:56 PM   #23
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On our old ‘87 Krogen Manatee, we’ve managed to keep our expenses below 10 %, even with a steady stream of projects, but for the last 2 years she’s been behind our residence so dockage only costs 200 bucks for annual condo maintenance. I do most work, but haul outs and paint ad about another 1200 annually. A lightning strike added another 7K or so in wiring & parts, but countless hours in labor in 2015 & 2016.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:12 PM   #24
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This is another one of those depends questions. Is the boat new or is it 30 years old. Is it in top shape or is there deferred maintenance. Do you like the boat the way it is or are you planning changes.

What ever your budget is you will spend it. If your budget is too small you will fall behind and one day you will own junk. If your budget is too big you one day be selling a like new boat for pennies on the dollar.

I think the 10% rule is a pretty good guess for the average boat in average condition. Less if the boat is newer than 10 years and more if older than 20 years.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:24 PM   #25
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Very hard to say but hoping you have no major breakdowns (engine, electronics, etc) my best guess is anywhere north of $12K per year ; provided:


-you try to do all repair & maintenance yourself,
-anchor whenever possible. Go to marinas only very occasionally
-go slow
-stay out of bars & restaurants


Good luck
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:46 PM   #26
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The other part that hasn't been addressed is "make it mine" cost. When you buy a boat, there is the fist provisioning from the galley ware to linens and towels for the stateroom. Some of us have spent quite a bit more in the first few years on things like some new electronics, anchors, fenders & dock lines, furniture, window coverings, floor coverings, and the list goes on.

Then there is the deferred maintenance list. Those are items overlooked by the previous owner and missed by the surveyor.

Obviously, some of this stuff is optional or may be transferred from a previous boat, but there will be a significant cost to "making it mine".

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Old 02-06-2018, 07:48 PM   #27
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annual costs

Great info.Drinking it all in.
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Old 02-06-2018, 07:58 PM   #28
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Don't do lazy budgeting on something this important. In an RV, do you intend to cross the country, put on 30,000 miles a year and stay at the finest parks or to just stay parked in a national park?

Think of intended use and budget each component of ownership. Do you intend to anchor in the Bahamas or dock for a week at Atlantis? Fort Lauderdale or Jupiter? How many miles cruising in a year and then break down consumables and fluids versus routine maintenance vs major repairs. Use the budgeting to learn. Check out marina prices in different areas. Check out yard situations, haul out costs, bottom painting costs.
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:37 PM   #29
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And if you own a house will you rent it out?
Income from that will probably pay for your cruising lifestyle and some.
Which reminds me.....we need to go back and kick the possums out and put paying tenants in their place.
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:47 PM   #30
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Greetings,
Mr. S. "...kick the possums out..."?

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Old 02-06-2018, 09:49 PM   #31
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10% of the boat cost per year is a pretty good average number (for western/developed countries). Pretty close for my 22 footer (and it's stored on a trailer on a farm when not being used).

Bigger, fancier boats need bigger and fancier parts. Parts for boats built in small quantities are going to be pricey. Some years it'll be more and some less. Have average out the big ticket items (i.e. engine rebuilds).

It'll be a bit higher in the EU.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:00 PM   #32
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Greetings,
Mr. S. "...kick the possums out..."?
Recently found 2 of them sitting on the barbecue, outside of course. They will inhabit roofspace if they find an entry, I had to evict one.
The brushtail variety can be nasty brutes, ringtails are cute, and the pretty small sugar glider can "fly" from tree to tree, gliding on extendable membrane.
https://www.wildlife.vic.gov.au/mana...ldlife/possums
Quite unlike the US opossum, or the Irish O`Possum.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:27 AM   #33
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Consider a few other possible costs depending on your situation:

1. Memberships like BoatUS and Tow BoatUS, MTOA or GB equivalent. Brendan Isles or equivalent for mail service and a legal address.

2. Storage of your stuff. If you are coming from an RV, you may have already addressed.

3. Transportation. With an RV, you can tow the car around. Not so much with the boat. How do you plan to get around? If you have a car what do you do with it when you cruise or move around? Also, if you keep an auto at a marina in south FL, it more than likely will be near salt water which causes rust/corrosion. You auto might depreciate faster sitting in the salt air and bombarded by the sun.

4. Lodging. More than likely you will need to haul the boat and have work done periodically. You might not be able to live on board during this time. Other boaters may offer temp lodging or you may need to get a hotel room. You might want to budget 5-10 days a year for this.
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Old 02-07-2018, 08:42 AM   #34
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Annual costs depends on what you include in your math!! We kept our boat in an LLC for tax / liability reasons. We avoided initial sales tax by keeping the vessel in RI. This saved approx. $30-$40K on the $500K vessel depending on state sales tax. Our trawler sipped fuel (3nm/gal), so fuel was not a major component of operating cost. In New England the boat was hauled and winterized each Winter, and kept at a dock during the Summer. I did most of the work and maintenance, and was not an "open checkbook" type. We kept track of ALL costs including buying, selling and depreciation. In round numbers 8 years of ownership and 1,500 hours of run time (approx 10K nm) cost $320K - $40K/year - 10% of final sale price. Your experience may be different but the 10% figure seems real to me, and I know people who easily spend a lot more!! I also know people who will never admit what they really spend!!
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Old 02-07-2018, 09:03 AM   #35
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Thanx to all who have spent some time to share their experiences...
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:19 AM   #36
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Annual costs depends on what you include in your math!!...
Yep. I do finance and management for a living so I'm a little anal about the spreadsheets and accounting. In 2017 our boat cost an average of $1,365 per month, year round, or $16,380 per year. However, about half of that is loan payments on the boat itself (we financed only a fraction of the purchase price but for a very short term so the payments are purposely sky high so we clear it quickly). Then about $3,500 is fall pull, winterization, shrink wrap, storage for six months, and re-launch in the spring. $3200 is annual slip rent. The rest is fed doc fee, state registration (boat and dingy), fuel, insurance and annual maintenance and upkeep, although I do almost everything myself (not because I want to, but it's almost impossible to find boat mechanics and electricians and even cleaning services in my part of the country (South Dakota, Missouri River)). Electronics upgrades here and there each year. This coming summer it'll be the stereo, kind of recreational, unnecessary but nice-to-have expense. We'll need to replace a couple canvas/stratoglas panels on the upper deck. $149 each last time we did that. New water heater this spring. We should do a new refrigerator this year but I'll try replacing the thermistor/temp sensor first. We also got a sweetheart deal on our purchase price just by good luck so that throws off the percent figure. Like Chris says, all depends what you want to include in the % calculation, the relative cost of where you live, winter/no-winter, etc. We're way over 10% for a little while but once we clear the purchase price that'll drop sharply.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:16 PM   #37
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Hi Verconium,

You pose an almost unanswerable question. In the boating world, the true answer to your question is "it depends". Not the answer that you're looking for! But the only true and honest answer, nevertheless.

Your true answer will only be revealed to you AFTER you have owned your boat for some time. And, as nobody can see into the future, opinions on what that answer may be (10% of boat value, 24%, blah blah blah) are only opinions, and most of them are stinky. Therefore, I can only offer you anecdotal evidence on what MY true cost of ownership for a similar vessel was.

To set the stage, my previous boat was a 1984 Canoe Cove 53, an aft-cabin fiberglass motoryacht, bought used, owned and operated by myself 95% of the time in the full-displacement (<10kts) mode over a 13 year time span here in the Pacific Northwest. The PNW is far from a 3rd-world country, but probably somewhat less expensive than the southeast US. And FAR, FAR from any $25 per hour labor! I am a confirmed DIY owner, only subbing out ownership tasks such as haulouts and major repairs that were outside either my expertise, or facilities to accomplish. Probably not atypical for the majority of those that participate in this forum.

And here's the numbers over that 13 year time:

Fuel: $41,474
Insurance: $16, 461
Repair and upgrades: $230,689
Moorage: $105, 112
Taxes: $30,369
Depreciation: $53,000
Total: $477,654
Average money per year to own: $36, 743

Note that this table does NOT include my cost of money over those 13 years. Had I chose to invest the money I paid for the boat in 2002 in Southern California real estate and financed the purchase of the boat instead, my money to own this boat would have been several hundreds of thousands of dollars additional.

And also please note that I chose to use "money" for my metric, rather than "cost". I firmly believe in that timeless adage that sums up similar financial calculations for leisure items with the summary:

"Cost-PRICELESS".

It's been worth every penny to me to date.

Regards,

Pete
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:25 PM   #38
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A thought: your boat has to be somewhere, 365. If you are not underway, anchored out or in a slip you own, you are paying.
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:01 PM   #39
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I keep thinking if we had used all the boat money to buy, say a piece of property on Prudence Island in Narragansett Bay for retirement it would be paid off by now - but then we live 1500 miles from Rhode Island and as long as we're still working here we'd rarely see it. Would I trade all the quiet, red and gold sunset evenings on the water here for that piece of real estate that I'd see "someday," unless I keel over first? Trade off having a boat free and clear and prepared for the Trent Severn someday? Trade off trucking the boat to Duluth someday and sailing off to the world (or at least North America)? No, I guess not. Ah, trade offs, opportunity costs, choices, choices in life.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:28 PM   #40
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Has anyone else said it?
If not then, "If you have to ask, you can't afford it".
That still about covers it.
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