anchor chain chafe

[ORIF]

I've been having an issue with my chain rode chafing against the sides of my bow pulpit hawse channel (if that's the correct term).

Only occurs in high wind or current conditions when I can't keep it coming in straight.

I've been working on some designs to try to prevent this and after my 3rd iteration was wondering if anyone has a better design they could share.

Thanks,

Edward

 

[C lectric]

Uhmw poly pads on side will stop any wear of the plank. It will last many years.

Unless not stopping the wear????

Is there still a problem?

 

[Comodave]

Have you tried an anchor bridle? We have a plate that slides onto the chain. Then 2 legs of 3 strand go up to the bow, one to each side. Then let out some more chain so that it forms a bight in the chain. Then no more chaffing from the chain and also no more noise as the chain moves on the bow roller. It also gives you some stretch in the anchor rode which is a good thing.

 

[wwestman]

Is this happening as you raise and lower the anchor or while you are stationary under anchor?

 

[Comodave]

It looks like the alignment is pretty good so I would guess that it isn’t when raising or lowering. Or maybe it is and then a bride would not help.

 

[BruceK]

Too dark to see what`s happening, but what is the condition of the roller? It may need replacing.

 

[Peter B]

It looks like the alignment is pretty good so I would guess that it isn’t when raising or lowering. Or maybe it is and then a bride would not help.

He says...
"Only occurs in high wind or current conditions when I can't keep it coming in straight.", so I read that as when retrieving...

It looks like he has put in a fairly good cure already actually.

 

[jleonard]

I'd make longer side pads or add a pair partway down the channel.

 

[psneeld]

I've been having an issue with my chain rode chafing against the sides of my bow pulpit hawse channel (if that's the correct term).

Only occurs in high wind or current conditions when I can't keep it coming in straight.

I've been working on some designs to try to prevent this and after my 3rd iteration was wondering if anyone has a better design they could share.

Thanks,

Edward

Sounds like retrieving...I have the same issue where it gets hung up on the "ears" of the pulpit.

 

[ORIF]

He says...
"Only occurs in high wind or current conditions when I can't keep it coming in straight.", so I read that as when retrieving...

It looks like he has put in a fairly good cure already actually.

Correct. Only occurs on retrieve.
I may be going down the right path with this but still need some modifications and possibly different material.

Thickness is fine for the chain but the shackle can get hung up as it comes in and tears up the Starboard.

Considered planing down the Starboard but then not much for the recessed fastener to hold onto.

Hasn't happened yet but concerned the thin pointed end of the starboard By the roller might flex in if the chain is brought in against it wrong and lock down the roller.

Roller seems fine by the way.

Considering 316 stainless as a thinner pad with less flex. And maybe bend it around the front end so it won’t catch on the chain and flex in on retrieve

 

[Mischief Managed]

It looks to me like you solved the problem with some sacrificial poly wear plates. The PO of my boat solved the same problem with a custom welded aluminum piece that is quite nice, but if I had to fix it myself, I would have used plastic like you did (and I have the tools and ability fabricate stuff in aluminum...). Looks good to me.


Edited to add: I have the same boat was you and my Vulcan anchor goes through the forward hole in the pulpit, it seems to be covered with HDPE on yours...


The attached photo is with the CQR that came with the boat. The 73 lb Rocna Vulcan that replaced it, fits much better.

 

[caltexflanc]

ORIF: Are you using the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor? I am having a hard time visualizing this issue. When you progressively power the boat forward and slack the chain, it should be coming straight up, even if the boat is horsing around in wind or current. Also as another poster suggested, is the right size anchor roller in there, furthering the centering of the chain?

Nice boat by the way!

 

[psneeld]

If you use thinner metal, I would try and get it bent around and under quite a bit.


You can see on my pulpit, the slightly bent ears snag the chain unless less than 45 or so degrees to either side.

 

[Baker]

ORIF: Are you using the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor? I am having a hard time visualizing this issue. When you progressively power the boat forward and slack the chain, it should be coming straight up, even if the boat is horsing around in wind or current. Also as another poster suggested, is the right size anchor roller in there, furthering the centering of the chain?

Nice boat by the way!

I think he may be onto something!!! I power up...get slack...retrieve until the slack is gone...and then repeat! THe anchor should never bind against anything...at least not heavily.

 

[GH41]

Correct. Only occurs on retrieve.
I may be going down the right path with this but still need some modifications and possibly different material.

Thickness is fine for the chain but the shackle can get hung up as it comes in and tears up the Starboard.

Considered planing down the Starboard but then not much for the recessed fastener to hold onto.

Hasn't happened yet but concerned the thin pointed end of the starboard By the roller might flex in if the chain is brought in against it wrong and lock down the roller.

Roller seems fine by the way.


Considering 316 stainless as a thinner pad with less flex. And maybe bend it around the front end so it won’t catch on the chain and flex in on retrieve

Get rid of the Starboard use 3/8" Delrin. Bevel the front and back to prevent snags.

 

[koliver]

Uhmw poly pads on side will stop any wear of the plank. It will last many years.

Unless not stopping the wear????

Is there still a problem?

UHMW is orders of magnitude more durable than Starboard. Some breadboard material is a good compromise.

 

[psneeld]

Most of the time, sure, power up, vertically retrieve.

BUT, sometimes the wind and current twists the boat very fast making it a painful dance of anchor retrieval and boat handling.

Twins or a thruster may help....not always available.

Some boats may be way worse than others.

 

[ORIF]

ORIF: Are you using the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor? I am having a hard time visualizing this issue. When you progressively power the boat forward and slack the chain, it should be coming straight up, even if the boat is horsing around in wind or current. Also as another poster suggested, is the right size anchor roller in there, furthering the centering of the chain?

Nice boat by the way!

Thanks for the good suggestions so far.

I'm not using the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor with one exception: after hurricane Irma, the boat blew up aft end to the bank. Even at high tide I did not have enough water to use the engines but the boat floated enough to winch off with the windlass. That was my best option that day given all the other circumstances I was dealing with. Went very slowly, paused to allow wind assistance when I could, and used a lubricant on the fiberglass to minimize sawing.

Other than that, as PSNEELD points out, there have been occasional wind or current conditions that caused the chain to come in off center but not to the same degree as my hurricane scenario. I'm not expecting to have to depend on these sacrificial pads much but if I have an extreme unplanned scenario like the one described above I want to be ready. These hurricanes don't seem to be slowing in frequency.

Will look into Delrin and UHMW polyethylene. Thanks for those suggestions.

I'm very familiar with UHMWP as it is used as the bearing material in total joints. As such I've handled it many times but have never tried to machine it.

Can anyone tell me if it would be easy to mill with my planer, jointer, or router?
I'm assuming it would be easy to mill but have never tried.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Will look into Delrin and UHMW polyethylene. Thanks for those suggestions.

I'm very familiar with UHMWP as it is used as the bearing material in total joints. As such I've handled it many times but have never tried to machine it.

Can anyone tell me if it would be easy to mill with my planer, jointer, or router?
I'm assuming it would be easy to mill but have never tried.

It's a pleasure to machine with woodworking tools.

 

[Shrew]

If this is during retrieval, and the wind is blowing you beam too, then this is what we do.

1) With the bow into the wind, back down until the rode is paid out straight, and inline with the wind.

2) try to slowly bump into and out of gear heading straight upwind, and retrieve as you're making forward motion.

3) we use the bow thruster to maintain fine adjustments.

4) IF the boat blows off and the chain starts heading a little perpendicular, then simply stop and wait. The boat will wag back.

5) Anticipate the wag and start pulling in again as you approach straight. Then bump back into gear and start pulling in again.

You may to stop and wait for the wag several times during the process.

 

[GFC]

Or maybe it is and then a bride would not help.

No suggestions here, I just had to poke a bit of fun at Dave for his suggestion of using a bride. Put her on deck and give her a boat pole to keep the chain straight.

 

[ORIF]

It looks to me like you solved the problem with some sacrificial poly wear plates. The PO of my boat solved the same problem with a custom welded aluminum piece that is quite nice, but if I had to fix it myself, I would have used plastic like you did (and I have the tools and ability fabricate stuff in aluminum...). Looks good to me.


Edited to add: I have the same boat was you and my Vulcan anchor goes through the forward hole in the pulpit, it seems to be covered with HDPE on yours...


The attached photo is with the CQR that came with the boat. The 73 lb Rocna Vulcan that replaced it, fits much better.

Mischief,

Your right about my pulpit modification. The end of the pulpit was ripped off as a result Hurricane Matthew. Long story. Just had it repaired last year. Initially upset me every time I looked at it. Then decided to consider it a battle scar and let it go while I worked on other parts of the boat.
Last haul out, the boat yard owner couldn’t stand leaving it and did the repair. Came out great.

I have a 55lb Rocna that lives there and switch to a 73lb Rocna for hurricanes (Getting really tired of these hurricanes).

I’m not sure if my Model 9 Plath windlass could handle the 73 pounder on a routine basis. Anyone have any opinion on that? Might start a separate thread.

 

[Comodave]

No suggestions here, I just had to poke a bit of fun at Dave for his suggestion of using a bride. Put her on deck and give her a boat pole to keep the chain straight.

Obviously I am spelling challenged... Spell check didn’t catch it because bride is a word, just the wrong word. However a bride might make a difference, maybe?

 

[caltexflanc]

I’m not sure if my Model 9 Plath windlass could handle the 73 pounder on a routine basis. Anyone have any opinion on that?

Plath is still in business, I am sure they'd have an opinion.
(503) 668-5757

In their catalog, they characterize the Model 9 as being for 24-35' boats, or 40 pound anchors, so the answer may be no. Possibly they could guide you to an upgrade or modification, very high quality company.

https://www.rcplathco.com/catalog/plath_marine_catalog.pdf

 

[rgano]

Correct. Only occurs on retrieve.
I may be going down the right path with this but still need some modifications and possibly different material.

Thickness is fine for the chain but the shackle can get hung up as it comes in and tears up the Starboard.

Considered planing down the Starboard but then not much for the recessed fastener to hold onto.

Hasn't happened yet but concerned the thin pointed end of the starboard By the roller might flex in if the chain is brought in against it wrong and lock down the roller.

Roller seems fine by the way.

Considering 316 stainless as a thinner pad with less flex. And maybe bend it around the front end so it won’t catch on the chain and flex in on retrieve

How about having a stainless steel channel made? Solves the too-thick problem.

 

[ORIF]

Plath is still in business, I am sure they'd have an opinion.
(503) 668-5757

In their catalog, they characterize the Model 9 as being for 24-35' boats, or 40 pound anchors, so the answer may be no. Possibly they could guide you to an upgrade or modification, very high quality company.

https://www.rcplathco.com/catalog/plath_marine_catalog.pdf

I talked to Ron at Plath a few years ago. We discussed those specs and if I remember correctly, he commented that ratings may have been pretty conservative in the 80's and that this windlass was built like a tank. He wasn't going to come right out and say it'd be fine but I concluded from the conversation that it probably would.
I sent it back into Plath to have it refurbed and have babied it on retrieves using the engines to give the chain slack and giving it rest stops as I weigh in.

There's a 100amp fuse that I blew twice soon after getting the boat but haven't done that since learning to treat it right. I did switch it to a 100 Amp circuit breaker so I wouldn't have to remember where I put spare fuses...

 

[ORIF]

How about having a stainless steel channel made? Solves the too-thick problem.

I've considered that. Just saw this on a Tolly similar to mine for sale on the web. Unsure whether this was fabricated or is manufactured

 

[Peter B]

Correct. Only occurs on retrieve.
I may be going down the right path with this but still need some modifications and possibly different material.

Thickness is fine for the chain but the shackle can get hung up as it comes in and tears up the Starboard.

..."I'm very familiar with UHMWP as it is used as the bearing material in total joints. As such I've handled it many times but have never tried to machine it."

Or, maybe just obtain a more stream-lined shackle, and then leave well alone for now, replace starboard with the poly if, and when, it wears a bit much.

Are you an orthopod, by the way - referencing your mention of joint replacement bearing surface material..?

 

[ORIF]

Or, maybe just obtain a more stream-lined shackle, and then leave well alone for now, replace starboard with the poly if, and when, it wears a bit much.

Are you an orthopod, by the way - referencing your mention of joint replacement bearing surface material..?

Yep. And I've read countless articles in our journals over the years regarding the engineering of UHMWP. These articles can also be a good cure for insomnia. The poly engineers have really come a long way in how to make it stronger, better, more durable. How to make it highly cross linked and best ways to radiate it without forming free radicles that weaken it. Like I said, it'll cure insomnia to read about it but this R&D over the last few decades is why a joint replacement is now more likely to last a remaining lifetime.
Found a 12x12 inch sheet on Amazon I'm going to try if tonight's latest modification doesn't hold up.

 

[ghost]

I have the same Plath windlass on a heavier 48. I TT Plath when considering a heavier anchor, and he literally laughed and told me it would be no problem. Mine hasn’t been rebuilt yet and still makes nice sounds. I pass Plath on my way to Mt Hood a few times a year when I visit my parents, one of these years I’ll drop it off. I don’t plan on ever needing to buy another windlass and it’s 40 years old now.