Anchor Bridles & Snubbers

[Bigsfish]

Scott

My personal opinion is that my single snubber going over the roller (additional chafe protection added) gets less damage than my bridal going through two chocks. The roller will turn as the snubber stretches and minimize wear. More important it is simple to place on the chain and let out more chain until it becomes tight, add a few more feet of chain, set the anchor and done. With the bridal I have to attach two lines to the cleats, lean out over the bow and attach the the device to the chain, and the rest is the same. I prefer the single snubber.

 

[syjos]

syjos,
"stopper"?
Another word for snubber?

A device used to take the strain off the windlass by securing the chain when the anchor is raised is a "chain stopper".


The device used to take the strain from the windlass by securing the chain when at anchor is a "riding chain stopper".

 

[Codger2]

I use a bridle made from 5/8" 3 strand nylon who's legs are 12' long. It fastens to the bow cleats (2) and has a chain hook at the junction of the legs.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Thanks syjos,
OK good. I thought it was more like a bridal. Of course I just make fast to my 14” dedicated anchor rode cleat.

 

[dhays]

Sounds great, but somewhat labor intensive. Has that knot been tested under strong load for any amount of time; that's a new approach to me.

Not really all that labor intensive. Wrap the dyneema loop around the chain (I also have a piece of dyneema that I made with an eye splice on either end which also works well). Then connect the two bridle ends to the loop with a soft shackle.

Frankly, what is the hardest is back feeding the bridle lines back through my anchor roller so they can be connected to the chain. When I just use a snubber instead of a bridle I don’t have to do that as the snubber line runs out the anchor roller with the chain. However, I like that the bridle doesn’t put any pressure on the anchor roller and is connected to the boat via the hawse holes which are closer to the surface of the water.

The dyneema loop is really strong. I figure about 1.5x the single strand working load.

 

[FF]

The key to the snubber is it should be as long as possible , but if lost overboard should not reach the shaft or prop .


,

 

[jleonard]

Another reason I like using a single line over the roller is I don’t have lines from the hauwes holes to the post to trip over. Everything stays along the pulpit out of my way.
Especially for important if we raft someone.

 

[Group9]

We always use two snubbers, mainly because that has just become our habit from many years. I'm pretty sure, that you could rig up one line that would probably be just as effective for most boats.

But, we don't even anchor for lunch without rigging a snubber. Too much potential for excessive strain on the windless, otherwise.

 

[angus99]

For those who run a snubber over your bow roller and—I assume—put all of the force of a strong blow on the roller, is there a point where you might think it’s too much and maybe switch to hawses?

 

[SailorGreg]

We always use two snubbers, mainly because that has just become our habit from many years. I'm pretty sure, that you could rig up one line that would probably be just as effective for most boats.



But, we don't even anchor for lunch without rigging a snubber. Too much potential for excessive strain on the windless, otherwise.

As you select hardware for your snubber attach point keep an eye on the WLL as compared to the chain itself. Especially with G40 chain. Very few chain hooks or grabbers that can grip the chain are rated at or above the chain. And they are expensive.
After trying everything, I now use a dyneema soft shackle. Not a perfect solution. I have a 10’ nylon snubber from my bow eye and when it is taut it transmits chain vibration back into the boat. The soft shackles help with this a bit.

 

[psneeld]

For those who run a snubber over your bow roller and—I assume—put all of the force of a strong blow on the roller, is there a point where you might think it’s too much and maybe switch to hawses?

Never have put the force of a strong blow on my roller.


Just don't anchor in those conditions. 35 knots over night has been my limit and maybe 50-60 in thunderstorms.


Worst has been 2X in emergency conditions where the chop was bad and no time for a snubber or bridle...THOSE were the times that everything took a beating but only for less than an hour or so.Had I had to sit longer, I would have put a single on, paid it out and been done in 30 more seconds as the bow was no place to work and the emergencies took precedence. (single engine failures at bad times)


If I was going to sit out a trpical storm or above I would probably rig a bridle..backup could still be a single which is easily done. But my plan is to nver ride out a tropical storm or above at anchor...or in such a hidey hole that heavy gear isn't that big of a deal.


The common theme that people anchor for a hurricane every time they anchor just baffles me.

 

[jleonard]

For those who run a snubber over your bow roller and—I assume—put all of the force of a strong blow on the roller, is there a point where you might think it’s too much and maybe switch to hawses?

I carry a second 1/2 inch snubber in similar length so yes I could rig a double easily.
But if the wind was that much I’d probably just let out a second anchor that is already rigged on my pulpit.

 

[jleonard]

I agree.

 

[Chrisjs]

I tried the notched stainless plate that connects over the anchor chain. It worked OK but required 2 lines going to both side hawse pipes and back to the sampson post. Problem was that the hawse pipes on the Selene are set back a ways from the bow - after all they are primarily intended for mooring/docking lines. So, the positioning of the lines was such that when the boat swung or changed orientation because of wind or tide changes, the line from one side or the other would tend to rub around the bow. Lengthening the lines did not help much. The solution, applying the KISS principle, was to discard the notched thingy and simply run a good length of 3/4 inch nylon line over the bow roller attached to the anchor chain with a double rolling hitch. I usually anchored with 5+ scope when practical and the snubber line took the load secured back to the sampson post. I always left a long catenary of chain dangling. I did not have a chain stopper but also secured the chain directly to the sampson post with another thicker line to prevent any possible tension on the windlass in the event of snubber failure. We had the pleasure of anchoring in 25-40K winds more than few times with this set-up!!

 

[Flatswing]

Try a Dyneema soft shackle through a chain link to secure the snubber. I use a soft shackle to attach the snubber to a low bow eye (installed for this purpose since my bow is almost 9' above water), another soft shackle attaches snubber to chain. Quiet and very strong. Even easier is just tie the snubber to chain with a rolling hitch if you are using deck mounted posts or cleats.

I replace my soft shackles every 18 months or so since 5/16" Dyneema is about $1/ft and only takes 30 minutes to make new ones. Tip: make the simple ones first to try them out. Then (using longer ends than vids suggest) try the crown knot - the buried ends almost double the strength of the soft shackle.

 

[Group9]

As you select hardware for your snubber attach point keep an eye on the WLL as compared to the chain itself. Especially with G40 chain. Very few chain hooks or grabbers that can grip the chain are rated at or above the chain. And they are expensive.
After trying everything, I now use a dyneema soft shackle. Not a perfect solution. I have a 10’ nylon snubber from my bow eye and when it is taut it transmits chain vibration back into the boat. The soft shackles help with this a bit.

We actually just use a galvanized chain hook. It's never come off the chain while we were anchored, although I hear that is the main worry many have when using a simple chain hook. I have to confess. I don't even now what the rated strength is on it.

I grew up on a farm and saw the loads we put on chains, and related gear without failure. I have a hard time seeing boats putting more strain than we did on chain in most situations, but maybe they do.

 

[GoneFarrell]

15 to 20 feet of line from the Sampson post over the roller to a chain hook, easy quick to rig, works great!

Really softened the ride during a 30+ knot blow a couple of weeks ago. Could see it working, made it a lot easier to get some sleep!

 

[lipets]

The 5/16" Dyneema loop, how long do make the loop?

 

[AusCan]

I have a double bridle each with 20 feet of 1/2" 3 strand nylon. It stretches about 3-4 feet at 20% of breaking strain if I remember correctly. For a chain stopper, I have one similar to the Seadog, but it has a locking shackle that ensures it doesn't fall off the chain when the tension is off.

I usually tie off each bridle on my midship cleat, but if the swell is on the beam I'll tie one off on the bow and the other midship or even the stern.

I didn't used to use it in benign weather, but after a bent anchor shank and a bent bollard on my bow, I now use it every time I anchor.

 

[syjos]

I have one similar to the Seadog, but it has a locking shackle that ensures it doesn't fall off the chain when the tension is off.

With a lazy loop in the chain, it will not fall off.

 

[dhays]

I replace my soft shackles every 18 months or so since 5/16" Dyneema is about $1/ft and only takes 30 minutes to make new ones. Tip: make the simple ones first to try them out. Then (using longer ends than vids suggest) try the crown knot - the buried ends almost double the strength of the soft shackle.

I have made a number of the stronger soft shackles and they really are good. For me, I try to do a number of them at a time as the button-crown knot with the buried tails is more challenging for me than the typical diamond knot. I also rigged up a system to tighten the knot with a hydraulic jack as it is important for the knot to be well set. When done, the shackle ends up with about 230% of line strength.


The typical soft shackle, using the diamond knot, is going to have a breaking strength about equal to the line strength. The weak point is at the knot.

 

[dhays]

The 5/16" Dyneema loop, how long do make the loop?

About as long as you need.... I know, stupid answer but...


I don't know how long the one I use is and I'm not at the boat to measure. What I did, was take a bit of double braid line (being an old sailor I have lots of bits of line around) that is about 2x the diameter of the dyneema that I'm going to use. I then tie it into a loop and check lengths.



I use what I would describe as a double larks head to wrap it around the chain. In other words with a typical larks head you would wrap it around the chain once, but I wrap it around twice. Then you want it long enough to give you a large enough loop to attach the shackle. When wrapped twice it won't slide on the chain.


Maybe I can take some photos to try to illustrate what I am poorly describing.

 

[dhays]

I usually tie off each bridle on my midship cleat, but if the swell is on the beam I'll tie one off on the bow and the other midship or even the stern.

Every boat is different. When anchored in shallow water and concerned about wind, I've taken the the bridle lines and run them through the hawse holes at the side of the bow and then straight back to a midship cleat. Rather than cleating at the hawse hole, the hawse hole acts like a fair lead. This puts the angle of the bridle where I want it, gives me the full 25' of length for the bridle, yet keeps the nylon off the rocks or out of the mud. I can also shorten up the length of one side to turn the boat slightly or reduce sailing at anchor.

 

[AnnapolisJoy]

Total confidence

I have a 55’ trawler. It came with a makeshift bridle we used for a couple of years. Being experienced sailors we never found a need for a bridle until we went to the dark side. We weathered many storms in the sailboat and with the bridle on the trawler but never felt safe.

The opportunity to upgrade came when I lost the makeshift bridle to a big bow wave. My research led me to a Mantis. A 55’ boat with <80,000 lbs dead weight needed a real bridle. Bought one at the Annapolis boat show from the Mantus booth. I could not be happier.

The bridle provides incredible scope at anchor. From the shallow water of the Bahamas to deeper water in New England we feel totally safe in any weather or currents.

The investment in a great bridle is not to be overlooked. I will never have a boat within one.

 

[psneeld]

AnnapolisJoy


Curious.....how does a bridle provide "incredible scope"? ... what exactly is that?

 

[dhays]

I agree that your Flemming deserves a "real" bridle. I just don't think it needs to be an expensive piece of equipment.

Appropriately sized Dyneema and your sailing skills would do just as well, and I might argue, better.

I agree about the scope issue. I anchored today with 1.5' under my keel. The tide will rise 12' tonight. My bow roller is 5' above the water. At high tide the roller will be 23' above the water. With 60' out, that would be 2.6:1 scope.

My bridle puts the ride attachment 2' above the water making it 20' above the bottom. For a 3:1 scope. Not a huge difference at high tide, but at low tide it is the difference between 5.45:1 at the roller vs 7.5:1 at the bridle.

I have a 55’ trawler. It came with a makeshift bridle we used for a couple of years. Being experienced sailors we never found a need for a bridle until we went to the dark side. We weathered many storms in the sailboat and with the bridle on the trawler but never felt safe.

The opportunity to upgrade came when I lost the makeshift bridle to a big bow wave. My research led me to a Mantis. A 55’ boat with <80,000 lbs dead weight needed a real bridle. Bought one at the Annapolis boat show from the Mantus booth. I could not be happier.

The bridle provides incredible scope at anchor. From the shallow water of the Bahamas to deeper water in New England we feel totally safe in any weather or currents.

The investment in a great bridle is not to be overlooked. I will never have a boat within one.

 

[syjos]

Scope is measured from the bridal attachment point.

Why would you use Dyneema (Amsteel)? It does not stretch.

The secondary use for the bridal is for easing the pull of the rode by stretching.

 

[dhays]

Scope is measured from the bridal attachment point.

Why would you use Dyneema (Amsteel)? It does not stretch.

The secondary use for the bridal is for easing the pull of the rode by stretching.

Dyneema not for the bridle lines, but for the attachment to the chain. I use dyneema to attach two lengths of 1/2” nylon three strand.

Just rowed back to the boat after buying a pair of Merrill boat shoes I found on sale for 50% (yeah!) and trying a flight of ales at Western Red Brewery. I meandered through a marine consignment shop and was fortunate to get away without stumbling on something that I just “had” to have. Some live music at the park now. Got to love Poulsbo.

9’ under the keel now. So about 3.75 scope at the moment.

 

[rgano]

Braided snubber

I pick whatever length I think I need for a given boat and use either 3/4-inch or 5/8-inch twisted nylon and unlay the three strands for about six feet and then braid them back together. You can see the transition from twisted to braided just before the rolling hitch around the chain begins. The beauty of the braid is that it works quite well on nylon twisted or braided rode.

 

[dhays]

I pick whatever length I think I need for a given boat and use either 3/4-inch or 5/8-inch twisted nylon and unlay the three strands for about six feet and then braid them back together. You can see the transition from twisted to braided just before the rolling hitch around the chain begins. The beauty of the braid is that it works quite well on nylon twisted or braided rode.

I used to use a rolling hitch variation. It is a good and simple solution.

3/4 or 5/8” seems a bit large for your size of boat in terms of the stretch available. For a snubber for my boat, I’d use 5/8” and I’m 43’ and about 35,000 when loaded. With a bridle I make that smaller since it has two legs.

The braided section is interesting. Can you explain why you do that?