America's Cup

[BurningChrome]

I was lucky enough to see some of the AC races from Alcatraz 4 years ago...mind-blowing boats and sailors. Looking forward to these new-fangled mono-hulls.

[CDreamer]

https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/foiling-monohulls

markpierce - "ask and yet shall receive". Although not multi-masted...yet.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by Tom A

Wife just saw on news that the Cup will be returning to mono-hulls! Hell Yeah!

Absolument. NYYC should be sanctioned for getting multis allowed when they did so to please Dennis C.

[CDreamer]

Sparks5501 -
Yeah, I've had the "pleasure" of droop-hiking a Star for three races in a row on a windy Saturday. Could be just brutal in the winter. Pretty wild...did you know they were originally gaff-rigged!? I never saw one rigged that way but as a sloop, tacking the huge Main with the small Jib took some getting used to, especially downwind with no spinnaker.
I raced on a couple of Dragons before that class largely died out. I hear they're making a comeback in Dubai...Beautiful.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pin...7600601607556/

Then Solings and Etchells came along and a lot of Star sailors moved to them. Then J24's....Johnstone's huge step forward. I raced on that boat for a good while...very big class and crazy talent.
The one boat I always wanted to experience was the Tornado but never got invited. I think I was too light for the trapeze....(not a problem now!)

I got to meet Buddy Melges at the North American Star championships once. And Lowell North (eventually founding North Sails) spoke at the dinner. What can I say? Icons. For me it was like meeting Johnny Bench or Orel Hershiser or somebody like that.
The thing about Stars was to see them at the starting line...all identical, all white hulls, all heeled at exactly the same angle on starboard tack. Thrilling, close-quarters racing.
But jump on a Viper or a J70 today...same feeling but 2-3 times the speed of a
Star...I mean...wow.

https://www.starclass.org/history/st...d-development2

[Stickman]

we'll see if the Kiwis start the finals up 1 race like we did!

I did enjoy the Bermuda venue. All aspects were great. But I'm guessing they won't be looking to kick in $70M again to host.

[Sparks5501]

Originally Posted by CDreamer

Sparks5501 -
Yeah, I've had the "pleasure" of droop-hiking a Star for three races in a row on a windy Saturday. Could be just brutal in the winter. Pretty wild...did you know they were originally gaff-rigged!? I never saw one rigged that way but as a sloop, tacking the huge Main with the small Jib took some getting used to, especially downwind with no spinnaker.
I raced on a couple of Dragons before that class largely died out. I hear they're making a comeback in Dubai...Beautiful.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pin...7600601607556/

Then Solings and Etchells came along and a lot of Star sailors moved to them. Then J24's....Johnstone's huge step forward. I raced on that boat for a good while...very big class and crazy talent.
The one boat I always wanted to experience was the Tornado but never got invited. I think I was too light for the trapeze....(not a problem now!)

I got to meet Buddy Melges at the North American Star championships once. And Lowell North (eventually founding North Sails) spoke at the dinner. What can I say? Icons. For me it was like meeting Johnny Bench or Orel Hershiser or somebody like that.
The thing about Stars was to see them at the starting line...all identical, all white hulls, all heeled at exactly the same angle on starboard tack. Thrilling, close-quarters racing.
But jump on a Viper or a J70 today...same feeling but 2-3 times the speed of a
Star...I mean...wow.

https://www.starclass.org/history/st...d-development2

Our Lippincott Star had an aluminum mast that you could bend to help shape the mainsail. The newer dacron sails were not as baggy and easier to trim. The difference between the wooden hull and the fiberglass hull was night and day. Great memories from growing up.

[CDreamer]

I built a W.E.S.T. system Windmill about 20 years ago. Still sail it from time to time and my boys race it on the handicap line with a couple of Flying Scots, Laser Il's, Dutchman, etc.
15' long and only 198 lbs dry. Far stiffer for the weight than the 'Glas versions.

It's a little like a miniature Star in that it has a large Main and small jib - but no spinnaker, which kept Windmills out of the Olympic lineup. It's a handful in 15 kts.
Like a Star, no backstay so you torque the forestay, use a lot of vang and put in some pre-bend before you launch. Not a tapered mast like Stars, but you can bend the section pretty good to depower in a lot of wind. No ballast either - daggerboard boat so all hiking. Got to have good core muscles to be successful. (Why I let the boys race it)

It will plane upwind in 12 knots. Lots of fun. The Southerns are in Pensacola (Grand Lagoon YC) so we might go this year.

[CDreamer]

Re: Americas Cup, I hear Oracle says they are staying out next time...I guess the spanking by NZ was too much for Larry.

[CDreamer]

This would fit nicely on the boat deck of a trawler.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moth...h_Kiel2008.jpg

[koliver]

Originally Posted by CDreamer

Sparks5501 -
Yeah, I've had the "pleasure" of droop-hiking a Star for three races in a row on a windy Saturday. Could be just brutal in the winter. Pretty wild...did you know they were originally gaff-rigged!?

The one boat I always wanted to experience was the Tornado but never got invited. I think I was too light for the trapeze....(not a problem now!)

I got to meet Buddy Melges at the North American Star championships once. And Lowell North (eventually founding North Sails) spoke at the dinner. What can I say? Icons. For me it was like meeting Johnny Bench or Orel Hershiser or somebody like that.
The thing about Stars was to see them at the starting line...all identical, all white hulls, all heeled at exactly the same angle on starboard tack. Thrilling, close-quarters racing.
https://www.starclass.org/history/st...d-development2

Thanks for the Star history.
Back in the beginning, I had #2855, a wood hull, made before tweaking the allowable limits to flatten the bottom became the norm, so not competitive in 1971 to 75 when I was sailing her. Still a fantastic boat to learn to sail and race in. My crew weighed 105# at the time, I was about 150, so what you say about Tornadoes applied to us on our Star.
I had the opportunity to sail a Tornado once. Like taking a Formula One for a spin. Wow!

[LarryM]

Originally Posted by CDreamer

Sparks5501 -
Yeah, I've had the "pleasure" of droop-hiking a Star for three races in a row on a windy Saturday. Could be just brutal in the winter.

CDreamer,

I had completely forgotten how painful droop-hiking could be. For a time I had a 5.5 Meter where it was de rigueur. Before that was an International 505 where trapeze sailing was used for pain and fun. I'd give anything to be that fit and fearless again.

[Nomad Willy]

The high tech is interesting and boat design is very interesting for all boats. But high tech and extreme things or activities are very vogue now. Younger people (that could be 50 or 15) seem to need separation from older people as if to say "ik I'm not like that".

I read that there's a huge reduction in the numbers of young people that have strong desires to have or do some of the things that when I was young was very important. Having a drivers license, going "all the way" w the opposite sex and dating, getting drunk, working for money and having the things that it made availible like a car. It seems far far fewer young people aspire to these things that were must do or have when I was a young person ... think late 50's and early 60's.

I was shocked to read this and think it's essence opens the door to very interesting studies and conversation. As a whole it's easy to see (for me) why young people thought as they did because I was part of it. However getting drunk has always been a dumb thing to do. Perhaps doing dumb things in one's youth shows the way to smarter things and activities later on. As an old man I think drinking is dumb now but liked the element of excitement it provided in my youth.

HaHa I meant this post just to be a question.
Do they race 12 meter boats anywhere now?

[CDreamer]

NW-
I don't know about the 12 meters regularly racing - they are high maintenance - but of course there are many beautiful old keelboats still racing all the time. I mentioned Dragons earlier...they've regained popularity in Dubai of all places. It's a status symbol, and they're kept in absolutely pristine condition.

http://www.artisanboatworks.com/clas...ational-dragon

I will suggest that it's important not lump all the "young people" together. My 20-something sons were crewing in a race series this weekend on J105's, leading to the North American championships next month. They get up, show up, they're pleasant and respectful and as a result older adults want them around. They're both "attached" to great girls but I'd say they live more of the style you're describing above. Work hard, have fun, be nice.
Here's the J105:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.jboats.com/j105/amp

I know these aren't old boats but they're great boats. Still a keelboat, and from a sailor's perspective, in many ways better than their predecessors.
You might appreciate that 105 class racing includes the Owner-as-Driver rule.

My uncle was a pretty famous naval architect who lived on Bainbridge Island (WA) for 50 years or so. They didn't even have a tv but the did have a dock. He "collected" 6-Meter boats. Like 12's, they were all slightly different but built within the 6-meter formula. Dennis Connor, Ted Turner, Tom Blackaller, used to head up there from time to time and race uncle Harry's little fleet against each other.
You'll also appreciate that he and his wife flew to Houston once for a funeral...when he got off the plane I noticed he still had bottom paint on his hands (no doubt Interlux #49 Red). He said, "Yeah...that's what I was doing this morning before she made me leave for THIS fun event."

[CDreamer]

LarryM-
Man those 505's were a wild ride.
I have to say that the most painful boat I raced on regularly - although beautiful to watch - were the Thistles. Big main, round bilges, no decks. They were like a bathtub with a 4" rail to hang over. We wore knee pads turned around backwards and sailing pants with padding but by Sunday night you were black and blue.

https://4310b1a9-a-e7d5ad29-s-sites....attredirects=0

[koliver]

[QUOTE=CDreamer;595573] I mentioned Dragons earlier...they've regained popularity in Dubai of all places. It's a status symbol, and they're kept in absolutely pristine condition.

International Dragon

My uncle was a pretty famous naval architect who lived on Bainbridge Island (WA) for 50 years or so. They didn't even have a tv but the did have a dock. He "collected" 6-Meter boats. Like 12's, they were all slightly different but built within the 6-meter formula. Dennis Connor, Ted Turner, Tom Blackaller, used to head up there from time to time and race uncle Harry's little fleet against each other. "

There is still a small fleet of Dragons at RVYC in Vancouver. On the Labour Day weekend they have their annual regatta in Centre Bay, Gambier Island. Usually 4 to 6 show up.

The 6 meter Worlds were held at RVYC in Vancouver last week. We were at the club on Thursday, which was the 6m windup and prize-giving. I have never seen our club host a larger crowd. My guess is there were between 200 and 300 for the party. Our Ross MacDonald won in one class, but wasn't sailing for RVYC. There were Cassics and Modern classes, flying sails and NoFS classes. Something for everyone.

[LarryM]

Originally Posted by CDreamer

LarryM-
Man those 505's were a wild ride.
I have to say that the most painful boat I raced on regularly - although beautiful to watch - were the Thistles. Big main, round bilges, no decks. They were like a bathtub with a 4" rail to hang over. We wore knee pads turned around backwards and sailing pants with padding but by Sunday night you were black and blue.

https://4310b1a9-a-e7d5ad29-s-sites....attredirects=0

CDreamer,
I always admired Thistles, but Jeez, that gunwale looks wicked! And, you are correct, 505's were a handful and not particularly forgiving. Gybing the chute in heavy air separated the men from the boys. I sailed mostly in San Francisco Bay so it was often challenging. On plane at anything over 10 knots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8eADMGw_OI

Sorry for the thread creep everyone . . . .

[CDreamer]

I guess to Nomad's comment though, the boats we are talking about are all old designs but were pretty technical boats. Stars are a 1930's design. Thistles 1945. The others are at least 1960's.
The "thrill-ride" mentality is older than recent decades...the more things change...

[Scary]

The Kiwis are looking to make this a race between Australia and New Zealand, Nobody else has the dingy experience on Sidney Harbor 18's or Moths. Moths are on foils. Those guys grow up sailing planning dingy's and high speed cats. The stability of the cats makes sailing on foils easy compared to monohulls. Monohulls on foils should be a very exciting thing to watch, Talk about crash and burn.
I too sailed and owned a 505 , a Parker called Titty Pink, it was supposed to be lavender, somehow the English think pink is lavender. It had a blond deck, actually very pretty on the water.
I Also raced Hobie Cats , 18's , qualified for the worlds in Auz. the Hobie's were much easier to sail than the 505's , faster on all points as well.
This should make a great show, everybody understands crash and burn.

[CDreamer]

With Team Oracle likely out next time (per Ellison) there's no heir-apparent to sponsor a US team. Unless one emerges soon, with a change of hull designs, I don't see how a US team / boat would come together fast enough to be competitive. So a NZ - AUS final could be pretty likely.

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/20...-americas-cup/

[dhays]

Originally Posted by CDreamer

LarryM-
Man those 505's were a wild ride.
I have to say that the most painful boat I raced on regularly - although beautiful to watch - were the Thistles. Big main, round bilges, no decks. They were like a bathtub with a 4" rail to hang over. We wore knee pads turned around backwards and sailing pants with padding but by Sunday night you were black and blue.

https://4310b1a9-a-e7d5ad29-s-sites....attredirects=0

I agree. Thistles were a killer to race in.