to all 42' Uniflite Double Cabin Sedan owners w. diesel heat

[EngNate]

Uni42, no they certainly dont! But I sure like the light and view - and that clear shrink film - but you have to tape over the edges or it just doesn't stick... I am in Bella Bella this year and expect lower temps but so far so good, today just the 4th freezing morning. I lived aboard in Vancouver (Milltown) 2016-17 and you'll remember that was cold. I've lived here winters too but not on board and it did get a few deg colder (to -19). I know at least one member around here in a colder spot still.

Kw for Kw, heating capacity doesn't differ between hydronic and direct air, but with hydronic, the heater unit(s) must have a real-world output to match the furnace - I've found that's a heater nominal rating about 2.5X the furnace capacity.

Frank, My Espar's specs 4.3Kw, .56L/Hr = .13L/Kwh. There isn't much variation in fuel efficiency between models of these small units. To save money you'd have to get fuel at less than $1/L. BC Hydro is still cheaper than liquid fuel.

 

[Boatingbill]

Better decision IMO...I'm not familiar with your Calaer unit, but
most of these diesel heaters would come with a metal to metal plunging fuel pump that can be loud & annoying... I can't imagine having 2 of those in my master state RM Knocking all night LOL.
No I have not checked my PM lately, I will soon.

Just a slight “whir” the blower is louder then the actual heater operation. No louder then a forced air furnace blower at home.

 

[Frankenstien]

Ruffryder ... yes, those windows of yours are identical to my leaky stern windows! ... I've still got the old, dried out white rubber moldings ... Tim at SeaCureTec has the material, in black only ... once I've decided on the lengths of material required and obtain same, what I really need is a good local (to Vancouver, B.C., Canada) installer ...

Your observation about the d. heater fuel pumps being noisy is well taken ... I wonder how far away from the heaters I can put those (I'm sure it'll say somewhere in the literature - it does say 'Maximum length of fuel hose' '8.8 m' '[28 feet]') ... maybe somewhere central and lower down in the e. r. ... as far away from the sleeping quarters fore and aft as possible, and, well below the Salon sole.

EngNate ... thanks for the Espar D7 specs ... interesting observations about fuel expense vs. electrical expense ... I'm paying 0.1306 per kWh + 5% GST ... I thought the d. heater(s) would be significantly more efficient ... have I made some sort of fundamental oversight here?

See attachment for Calaer (2 &) 4kW unit specifications.

My fuel consumption would theoretically be 0.12L/kWh ... x 2 heaters is .24L/kWh ... if both were running full tilt ...
... today, diesel at Steveston Chevron Marine would cost me $1.155CAD/L, gross, so I'd be spending 0.1386CAD/kWh on diesel fuel for d. heat ... x 2 heaters is 0.2772CAD/L ... if both were running full tilt ...
... so ... your point about relative expense is well taken, if my math and your direct comparison of the two heating methods is correct ... but why do my buddies with d. heat o/b all think it's more efficient?

Boatingbill ... the 'whir' of blower-driven air flow I can live with ... I sleep with the TV on anyways ... bad habit, I know ...

All in all, I'm sure thankful to all who stepped up and posted here to assist me wuith this initiative ... I've come to more than a few fundamental understandings / decisions about the install locations / considerations.

FFF

 

[Ruffryder]

Just a slight “whir” the blower is louder then the actual heater operation. No louder then a forced air furnace blower at home.

I would have to disagree... These fuel pump clicking noise is much
Louder than the blower motor whir.

 

[Ruffryder]

Ruffryder ... yes, those windows of yours are identical to my leaky stern windows! ... I've still got the old, dried out white rubber moldings ... Tim at SeaCureTec has the material, in black only ... once I've decided on the lengths of material required and obtain same, what I really need is a good local (to Vancouver, B.C., Canada) installer ...

Your observation about the d. heater fuel pumps being noisy is well taken ... I wonder how far away from the heaters I can put those (I'm sure it'll say somewhere in the literature - it does say 'Maximum length of fuel hose' '8.8 m' '[28 feet]') ... maybe somewhere central and lower down in the e. r. ... as far away from the sleeping quarters fore and aft as possible, and, well below the Salon sole.

EngNate ... thanks for the Espar D7 specs ... interesting observations about fuel expense vs. electrical expense ... I'm paying 0.1306 per kWh + 5% GST ... I thought the d. heater(s) would be significantly more efficient ... have I made some sort of fundamental oversight here?

See attachment for Calaer (2 &) 4kW unit specifications.

My fuel consumption would theoretically be 0.12L/kWh ... x 2 heaters is .24L/kWh ... if both were running full tilt ...
... today, diesel at Steveston Chevron Marine would cost me $1.155CAD/L, gross, so I'd be spending 0.1386CAD/kWh on diesel fuel for d. heat ... x 2 heaters is 0.2772CAD/L ... if both were running full tilt ...
... so ... your point about relative expense is well taken, if my math and your direct comparison of the two heating methods is correct ... but why do my buddies with d. heat o/b all think it's more efficient?

Boatingbill ... the 'whir' of blower-driven air flow I can live with ... I sleep with the TV on anyways ... bad habit, I know ...

All in all, I'm sure thankful to all who stepped up and posted here to assist me wuith this initiative ... I've come to more than a few fundamental understandings / decisions about the install locations / considerations.

FFF

My transom windows are fabricated from 1/8th smoked Lexan, so is my salon door but thicker.
Black trim molding came from a local automotive seal place... didn't require any special skill or tool to install, they went on smooth easy peasy.
Regarding those fuel pumps, shorter the better & ensure to mount them in let's say 30 degree.

 

[Frankenstien]

Ruffryder ... thanks for the heater noise clarification and window molding info ... was the molding material you used a two-part affair? i.e. one substantial perimeter molding with a center gap that gets stuffed with a thin piece to compress all for the desired leak-proof fit?


I'm just not entirely confident in my ability to do those window moldings myself ... I once saw a pro do the small quarter window moldings in my old Porsche 928 (I'm glad that car's gone!) using a thin piece of line to roll the edges of the new moldings into place ... working in a very confined space ... that's the kind of guy with that skill set I'd like to attend my boat to do these windows ... if for no other reasons than precision material cutting skills, and, any problems encountered (i.e. what's the exposed opening gonna' look like?, and, what thickness[es] / type of wood [potentially deteriorated from prolonged exposure to water leakage?] am I going to run into?) as the windows come apart could be dealt with quickly and effectively ... as you know, it rains up here in winter ... a lot ... I can't have my leaking issues drag on endlessly, nor can I afford to have the thing apart for more than a short afternoon ... FFF

 

[EngNate]

In Alberta it would be a different story, with recent figures .88/L for non highway diesel and .167/Kwh for electricity. Its intuitive I guess that burning a flame on the spot is more efficient than piping in the energy. And I don't know but I suspect that a fuel heater's Kw is the burner rating and includes heat that goes out the exhaust. An electric element dissipates all of its power into the air. Due to our abundant hydro, BC electric rates are among the lowest in North America, while our fuel is among the highest.

 

[Frankenstien]

In Alberta it would be a different story, with recent figures .88/L for non highway diesel and .167/Kwh for electricity. Its intuitive I guess that burning a flame on the spot is more efficient than piping in the energy. And I don't know but I suspect that a fuel heater's Kw is the burner rating and includes heat that goes out the exhaust. An electric element dissipates all of its power into the air. Due to our abundant hydro, BC electric rates are among the lowest in North America, while our fuel is among the highest.

EngNate ... I've been giving some thought to your last post and the calculations you introduced earlier to compare the expense of diesel heat to electrical heat ... even given your comment about a diesel heaters' kW designation (& output range) possibly being the burner rating (and including heat going out the exhaust - I'll have to dig into the Calaer literature as well as literature from, say, Espar / Webasto, to try and nail the rating aspect down), I remain unconvinced about making direct expense comparisons as you have suggested ... in my gut, and, based on anecdotal evidence, I still think diesel heat has the advantage, qualitatively as well as expense-wise.

So ... are there any other HVAC experts out there that can confirm or clarify the comparisons being made here?

Thanks, FFF

 

[EngNate]

Easily found on a home heating and cooling forum. Specify your fuel and electric costs and ask if it will be cheaper to run an oil or conventional electric furnace. Just ignore all the ones that tell you to get a heat pump. Or ask a local home heating outfit. Of course, they are going to want to answer the questions that might sell you a new heat pump...

Heat is heat, qualitative aspects will depend on how it is dissipated into the space - forced air, convection or radiant. There's only the one option with a direct air heater.

Consider also that these fuel furnaces are high maintenance, very high compared to an electric heater which needs practically zero. They require periodic combustion chamber cleaning which means removal and disassembly and new gaskets. I avoid excessive hours on my system, and I do this stuff myself at minimal cost. Adding an electric element to the system is on my future project list.

Got the proper exhaust fittings in the kit, and enough insulating wrap? I use and recommend at least a double layer, all the way over clamps, and bound with wire. Immediately after the hull fitting it needs to go up in a U bend several inches high. Secure the insulated exhaust tubing well, using copper plumber's strap, screws and nuts to make stand-offs. This tubing can and does rot out, develop cracks, especially if moisture sits in it during idle times. Take precautions here with a secure installation. And install CO detectors!

These heaters are really finicky about using the provided fuel tubing. Expansion/contraction of rubber hose will prevent the pulse pump from delivering the required amount of fuel. Large diameter or excessive length does the same. If a filter is provided its a tiny one, the only one that can be used, except at the very end at the fuel source, as close and direct to the tank as possible. Here I would install a small spin-on Racor (type) filter/separator, one with a bleed plug, and an outboard motor primer bulb at the filter inlet so you can purge the filter and lines. Each heater needs its own fuel supply back to this filter. The fuel pumps usually come with cables - easy way to know how far away you can put it. They can be noisy. Should come with a cushion clamp, isolating it further with rubber washers or grommets on the mounting screw will help. Cheers!

 

[Ruffryder]

I need to correct myself since I got confused ?
Yes they're 2 piece rubber moldings, one thick piece outter edge with a inner thin fill piece goes on the outside from Seacure.

 

[Frankenstien]

I need to correct myself since I got confused ?
Yes they're 2 piece rubber moldings, one thick piece outter edge with a inner thin fill piece goes on the outside from Seacure.

yup ... thanks for clarifying Ruffryder ... I suspected you might have used the two-piece stuff from Tim at SeaCureTec ... here's what he told me (via e-mail Reply) on 25SEP20:


"Transom window gasket (black) w' locking key $8.48/ft ( will need length per window)"


So, I want to ensure I get him to cut the exact correct length of material for each window ... not easily measured (at least not with the tools / methods I have at my disposal) without actually removing a window to check ... even then, the old white rubber material around mine is so brittle-looking I likely could not get it to lie flat and straight enough for an accurate measurement anyways ... FFF

 

[Ruffryder]

You're welcome.
I would add a couple extra inches...they can be easily cut flushed at the bottom when installed.

 

[sbman]

yup ... thanks for clarifying Ruffryder ... I suspected you might have used the two-piece stuff from Tim at SeaCureTec ... here's what he told me (via e-mail Reply) on 25SEP20:


"Transom window gasket (black) w' locking key $8.48/ft ( will need length per window)"


So, I want to ensure I get him to cut the exact correct length of material for each window ... not easily measured (at least not with the tools / methods I have at my disposal) without actually removing a window to check ... even then, the old white rubber material around mine is so brittle-looking I likely could not get it to lie flat and straight enough for an accurate measurement anyways ... FFF

You can take a small lightweight line and hold it up to the outer edge along the existing trim, then follow the curves of the window with the line all the way round till you get to where you started. Then measure how much line it took to get all the way around and add a couple of inches for good measure.

I have purchased plenty of the trim used in the framed windows from Seacure and it's good quality stuff. A bit expensive but really for a 'yacht' product, not badly priced.

I've also purchased a number of the hard plastic trim pieces (engine room vents) and they are quite reasonably priced. I'll post photos of some of them on my refit thread once I get to installing them.

 

[Ruffryder]

More expensive option, but replace both transom windows with 2 new that opens like my buddy's Blue Horizon up in BC.

 

[Frankenstien]

Thanks for the tips guys! ... sbman ... that method of yours for measuring is something I should have thought of ...DOH! ...

Ruffryder ...those windows on Blue Horizon sure look spiffy ... any chance of putting me in touch with the owner? Maybe via PM ... FFF

 

[sbman]

Thanks for the tips guys! ... sbman ... that method of yours for measuring is something I should have thought of ...DOH! ...

Ruffryder ...those windows on Blue Horizon sure look spiffy ... any chance of putting me in touch with the owner? Maybe via PM ... FFF

Same here. my rear windows need updating