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Old 03-06-2018, 07:56 AM   #21
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If your PSS still leaks after the 1” Compression there may be “Gunk” where the seal disk meets the stainless flange. Take 400 grit sand paper doubled up and “Drag” it around the seal surface a few times to clean them.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:57 AM   #22
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5 year old article:

https://www.passagemaker.com/technic...ss-shaft-seals
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:51 AM   #23
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As this quoted article summarizes (read until end) a properly installed and maintained drip less system works as advertised and just as well as a non dripless system assuming of course recommended maintenance. Seems like the OP is interested in doing it right and should have no problems.

Like anything on a boat, let things go or do something wrong and problems arise. The classic but sad first hand case I'm aware of is during an insurance survey of a Feadship the insurer's hired gun turned and repositioned a set of valves he shouldn't have. The valve left open was an oil drain from a crankcase. Yes, the engine oil was dumped into the on board used oil tank, but the engine was running and soon out of oil. Insurer paid dearly for a new engine.

Or how about failed raw water hoses, bad through hulls or horror of horrors a ripped off IPS! Not to forget there are hundreds of thousands of bellows in use holding out the waters we race around in - millions actually on 60 years of stern drives.
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:59 AM   #24
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Oh great... something ELSE to now be worried about! I guess I need to check my PSS seals this weekend.
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Old 03-06-2018, 09:14 AM   #25
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Greetings,
From post #18. "Personally I do NOT like PSS or similar style systems." Not getting into a p*ssing contest. This is MY opinion. If you've got one of these or are thinking on getting one of these, fill your boots.
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Old 03-06-2018, 09:23 AM   #26
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Greetings,
From post #18. "Personally I do NOT like PSS or similar style systems." Not getting into a p*ssing contest. This is MY opinion. If you've got one of these or are thinking on getting one of these, fill your boots.
RT, Thanks for posting an article that says PSS systems are just fine if installed and maintained properly. But you've never been shy about stating your opinions so hammer away, it is the Internet.
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:49 AM   #27
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The price of a traditional water-cooled stuffing box is 4 times more than the ones without a water connection. How important is it for an 8 knot boat's shaft seal to be water cooled? Anyone here using Gore GFO packing without cooling water? The savings will be less than a boat buck, but if I can avoid paying for something that I don't need and simplify the set-up even more (less parts to fail), I'm all for it.

My reason for wanting to do the switch from PSS to traditional stuffing box is mainly for my own peace of mind. I do my best to be diligent with my systems check, but the stuffing box is something that I tend to not pay close attention to. Worse case scenario on a neglected traditional stuffing box is more acceptable to me than on a PSS. If the PSS seals were new, I don't think I would consider changing them, but since they are due for replacement ....
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:03 AM   #28
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Have you considered a Tides Marine dripless seal. They have a different design approach compared to PSS. I have had both, and did need to do some adjusting on one PSS, but that was because the yard never secured the set screws, so not PSS's fault.

Any other experience with Tides?
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:14 PM   #29
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Advice requested: PSS bellows loose and leaking

Replaced mine last week. 8 years old and still working well. Preventative maintenance. You can see the sharpie mark on the shaft from where it was compressed, per the installation instructions .Click image for larger version

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Old 03-06-2018, 01:03 PM   #30
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Replaced mine last week. 8 years old and still working well. Preventative maintenance. You can see the sharpie mark on the shaft from where it was compressed, per the installation instructions .Attachment 73724
What a great looking setup. DeFever does the PSS system correctly. But, good access and being openly visible helps. If I had a vessel with a "buried" shaft through hull that was not easily visible PSS would not be the ticket. Likely though that would not be a vessel we'd consider, or if we did borrow RT's Juneau Sneakers.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:00 PM   #31
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Have you considered a Tides Marine dripless seal. They have a different design approach compared to PSS. I have had both, and did need to do some adjusting on one PSS, but that was because the yard never secured the set screws, so not PSS's fault.

Any other experience with Tides?
Thanks. I looked into it. It appears to be more robust and I like that the mating surfaces are male and female. It eliminates the fear of someone or something bumping into it and causing a leak. When I was tightening the hose clamps on my PSS, I had a temporary gusher when the mating surfaces misaligned momentarily.

But because of my good experience with traditional stuffing box packed with Gore GFO, I think I will just stick with that set-up. Also, I can service it without a haulout.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:44 AM   #32
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"Since when is a dripless seal "dangerous"? Thousands of boats are using them including mine."

The thin wall rubber of the unit can fail, and if it does the water inflow is beyond most bilge pump setups.

It was an attempt in its day to stop the hassle of a dripping shaft seal when in port.

Its day (to me ) is LONG past , and in many boats a weak point that need not be tolerated.

With good PM ,,, change the rubber bellows often, it is less dangerous,but still a needless danger. .
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:15 AM   #33
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Greetings,
Mr. m. I am of the same opinion as yourself. "bulletproof" and "peace of mind". Personally I do NOT like PSS or similar style systems. They are "solutions" looking for a virtually non-existent problem IMO. I would much rather tolerate a bit of water in the bilge than trust a system that might cause a sinking. A "classic" stuffing box system can be readily re-packed while in the water and $$-wise, a few feet of GFO packing is far less expensive than hauling and replacing a complete "dripless" system every 5-8 years.
Mr. RTF I agree with your opinion. When I refit my boat, I asked myself, can I fix this with parts I can get from a remote marinia with out delay waiting for parts. I went with traditional packing gland rather than PSS, standard fuel line and SS clamps rather than high pressure compression fittings, PEX over copper, all parts found in a hardware store. Fancy systems are great until they fail when you only have three days left on vacation and have to get back to somewhere.

PS, there are lots of videos on you tube of PSS failing. The CG mandates minimal packing gland flow rate, without any packing installed. I have removed the packing nut all the way off the shaft while in the water, changed the packing material, no problem.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:51 AM   #34
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OK, now you guys have me afraid to leave port or even start my engine!

Lots of failures can sink a boat so I'm wondering what the actual risk is. There are thousands of these seals out there and failures aren't making the news. The companies are still in business so somebody is buying them and I assume they are being installed in new boats (like mine was).

As for youtube, it's the Internet so anyone can put anything on there.

I do appreciate the warning and I'll check on mine and possibly have it replaced but I don't think I'll go to the trouble and expense of having it converted to the old type. It's actually a bit hard to get to so adjusting or repacking it would be a pain for a person my size and age.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:24 AM   #35
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OK, now you guys have me afraid to leave port or even start my engine!

Lots of failures can sink a boat so I'm wondering what the actual risk is. There are thousands of these seals out there and failures aren't making the news. The companies are still in business so somebody is buying them and I assume they are being installed in new boats (like mine was).

As for youtube, it's the Internet so anyone can put anything on there.

I do appreciate the warning and I'll check on mine and possibly have it replaced but I don't think I'll go to the trouble and expense of having it converted to the old type. It's actually a bit hard to get to so adjusting or repacking it would be a pain for a person my size and age.

Just ignore. As you say, lots and lots of people using them and loving them. Others have made the choice to stay with a packing gland which is just fine. And there are always people who will dump on whatever they don't have, or whatever is "new".
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:28 AM   #36
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Lots of failures can sink a boat so I'm wondering what the actual risk is. .
The wonderment of TF is everything nautical related is a risk. For those really curious about product XYZ a talk with your favorite large yard pros, professional Captains and insurer can help clear the air.

The TF nautical worries for us neophytes, beyond dripless seals, is a very long list. Generally though, "if I don't have it", it is no good.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:37 AM   #37
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Now I feel better.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:09 AM   #38
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Mine is 18 years old and 2500 hours, looks like something on the list, good tip.

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The suggested replacement interval is 6 years. Our Mainship is now 15 years old and I'm sure they have never been replaced. Will take care of it at the next haulout.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:17 AM   #39
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I suggest you phone them. I found their support excellent when I called.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:54 AM   #40
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I don't know what brand mine is but as far as I know, it's never been serviced and it doesn't leak. There's a spare seal on the shaft that hasn't been used.

I'll find out the brand and recommended service interval the next time I'm on the boat and decide what to do.
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