Adventure #1: Getting her home

[jovial_cynic]

ooooook.

Each time I've been out to the boat, I noticed that the water in the forward bilge was getting a little deeper. As in, 2 inches in the course of a day. The previous owner said that he "wasn't allowed" to run the bilge pumps at all, and that it's normal for wood boats to have "some water" in them. But today, by the time I got to the boat, there was literally 13 inches of standing water - so much that it was nearly touching the lid.

On the one hand, did this guy sell me a sinking boat? If so, do I have any sort of legal recourse?

On the other hand, does this guy not know anything about wood boats, and that turning off the bilge pumps is a very bad idea? Ie., is this a normal amount of water coming into a boat?

All I know is that I bought a 110v sump pump and sucked water out of the bilge and into a 55-gallon drum, making sure there wasn't any oil or floating sludge, and then used the sump pump to suck the water out of the 55-gallon drum and into the water outside the boat. In all, I LITERALLY sucked 900+ gallons of water out of the boat. That raised that boat over 5 inches.

Here is what I think has been happening, but maybe somebody can clarify for me:

The water HAS been slowly seeping in the boat. The previous owner was honest in his statement that the boat has sat for 15 months without taking on a ton of water and sinking. But just recently, the amount of water intrusion has lowered the boat below the water line on the outside, and actually lowered the boat below the bilge-pump exit ports. This potentially created an additional entry point for the water, causing it to take on even more water, more quickly.

In theory, having sucked out 900+ gallons and raising the boat 5 inches (above the bilge-pump exit ports) should put the boat back into pre-quickly-sinking condition.

So... opinions? Did I get sold a lemon? What would you do?

 

[Mach_cat]

You mentioned spinning your propellers, it is possible you need to adjust your packing now. At each shaft you have another way for water to enter the boat.
Typically these should be dripping about 3-10 drips per minute when the engine is not running. Check there and see if maybe it started to run faster aft you started the engine. Then adjust them until you get it slowed down.

As to buying a lemon, not much recourse. This why we do surveys before completing a deal.

 

[dhays]

As Mach-cat mentioned, the only thing that changed is that you ran the engines. The first thing would be looking at the shaft packing glands. The second would be to look at the raw water intake hoses to ensure there is no leaking there.

Any boat is slowly sinking. As you noticed, there are lots of holes in the boats that can, and occasionally do, let water in. The primary job of a boat owner is to keep the water out.

It is my understanding that a wood boat will always take in some water. How much depends on a lot of things but it is slow.

The first order of business is getting your bilge pumps working. That is critical in any boat. The only contaminated water would be from oil or fuel leaks. Any bilge not connected to that can safely be pumped straight overboard. Most of us have a large drip pan under the engine so any bilge water in the engine space isn't contaminated with oil and can also safely be pump overboard.

Get your bilge pumps straightened out right away then...

The shaft packing glands can take on water much more quickly. Usually it is a matter of tightening up the packing glands. You may likely need to replace the packing, but first check to see if you can tighten them a bit to slow any leaking.

Then see if there is any leaking from the raw water cooling system. It can be from loose hose clamps, cracked hoses, etc... Be aware that you need to be careful about tightening hose clamps too much on an old seacock as if they are damaged it is possible to crush them. Get some plugs or Stay afloat before cranking on them too much.

 

[jovial_cynic]

I just did some research on adjusting the packing. Again - another new thing I didn't realize existed. I'll take a closer look there and see if I can see it leaking significantly.

 

[River Cruiser]

A friend had a 31' Mathews he ran aground while on the Detroit river. It later sank in the slip after being towed off. If I remember correctly the grounding pulled some of the packing from between the hull timbers and she started taking on water.

 

[BruceK]

Could be the glands let in some water, the boat sat deeper, deep enough to allow water in via a more serious hull defect.
900 gallons is a lot of water, I `d expect if you had a good look around you`d find a source, now you know there is one,or two,or...you might even hear it trickling in.
Be sure your bilge pumps are well fed by good batteries with a recharge source.

 

[swampu]

ooooook.

So... opinions? Did I get sold a lemon? What would you do?

I think every boat is a lemon, you just gotta add a little sugar and hope for the best.
My boat is almost 70 years old and my task today is to move one of the mains over about 1/8-1/4". Yep, 70 years ago they didn't align the engine and didn't bother in the last 70 years. PO said he never went over 1400 rpm because of a vibration, well lets don't fix the problem we will just learn to live with it. I think there is a lot of complacency in boating. Sooner you learn that the better outlook you will have.

 

[jovial_cynic]

I head back to my boat tomorrow. I'm very interested to see how much water it has taken on in 48 hours. Specifically, I'm curious if my theory about the bilge output holes being above/below the water line is what is making a big difference, vs. the shaft packing. I only say that because a month before I bought the boat, the previous owner fired up the engine for somebody else who was interested in buying it. Therefore, firing up the engine isn't the single changing variable on which I can pin the problem.

We shall see. I'll keep you all posted. Ebay tells me that my new raw water pump arrives on Thursday, so I may be installing it Thursday or Friday night, depending on how difficult it is to pull the pulley. I may just measure the pulley and get a new one installed onto my new pump; that way, I have a spare pump/pulley combination.

I do know that my thru-hull that goes to this particular water pump is toast. As in, the lever has corroded... off. So I don't think I can tighten it to prevent water from gushing in when I disconnect the hose. My diesel mechanic said to grab a small nerf football and just stuff it in the hole once I remove it from the pump. This sounds rather exciting and adrenaline inducing. It involves football, too. Neat! But in all seriousness, maybe a nerf football. Maybe a 1.5" wood plug that I can shove in the hose and tighten with a hose clamp. I don't know yet. Suggestions?

I do know that once the boat gets to Olympia, I'm getting it pulled out of the water and getting it sprayed down, sanded, painted, and getting the thru-hull valves replaced as needed.

 

[jovial_cynic]

Success!

I spent several hours at the boat today, and managed to replace the bad raw water pump. I probably could have gotten it done a bit faster if I didn't spend time making adjustments to the belt in the hopes that the problem was a loose belt rather than a sticking pump.

Things I learned:

1. Water that comes in through the hose from the thru-hull valve (the handle for which disintegrated) doesn't come in so quickly that I have to panic, particularly if I planned ahead with something to cork the hose.

2. A new raw water pump comes with the impeller factor installed clockwise, but for my boat, I need it to be counter-clockwise.

3. Harbor freight sells a 6-ton miniature press that's great for pushing pulleys off their shafts.

And great news - the original owner of this boat is going to give me a full tour of his boat tomorrow, to include explanations of all the nuances and odd switches he added.

Feeling pretty good right now. I don't feel like the captain of a ship yet, but I guess this is a start.

 

[Scottbwheeler]

I'd say that's a pretty good day! Good luck getting her sorted out!

 

[Lou_tribal]

Success!

2. A new raw water pump comes with the impeller factor installed clockwise, but for my boat, I need it to be counter-clockwise.

3. Harbor freight sells a 6-ton miniature press that's great for pushing pulleys off their shafts.

I did not know that impellers have a direction?

a 6-ton press? miniature? to push a pulley?

L.

 

[jovial_cynic]

I did not know that impellers have a direction?

a 6-ton press? miniature? to push a pulley?

L.

I've heard that if you get them lubed up enough, you can throw them in the other direction, but life is a bit easier if you get them turned in the right way so it doesn't have to overcome the fins fighting against the cam. I was able to pull mine out and twist into the right direction as I was putting it back in.

As for the press - I'm a car guy, and typically, you run with a 12- or 20-ton press. The 6-ton press is overkill for a water pump pulley, but it's still handy to own.

 

[menzies]

Hah? Welcome go DIY boating?

 

[jovial_cynic]

Isn't all boating DIY boating?

 

[Ski in NC]

Impeller vanes will adapt to which ever way you spin the shaft. Don't worry about which way they aim.

 

[jovial_cynic]

Impeller vanes will adapt to which ever way you spin the shaft. Don't worry about which way they aim.

Really? I read online many times people warning to ensure that they were installed the correct way. Additionally, the box my pump came in gave directions on which way the impeller should be installed based on your desired direction, and specifically stated that it *was* installed "clockwise" for that reason.

In the end, you have to rotate the impeller to even get it installed, so I'll end up twisting the impeller in the correct direction anyway... so I suppose it's a moot point going forward. But I was under the impression that if you get it installed them the "wrong" way, you'll risk damaging the vanes.

 

[GregBrannon]

2. A new raw water pump comes with the impeller factor installed clockwise, but for my boat, I need it to be counter-clockwise.

An interesting observation . . .

The internals of the pump include an intake that is fed by the hose from the raw water source (the thru-hull), and an output that continues to the engine, supplying water to the heat exchanger. The impeller should rotate in a direction that pulls or collects raw water from the intake and pushes it to the output. This graphic shows how it works: https://www.google.com/search?q=raw...7AkIQg&biw=1717&bih=963#imgrc=ruN6eMRjbeZ8HM:

If the rotation of the pump were reversed, so would the flow of water change directions, an undesirable condition. A raw water pump for your engine should turn in the required direction, so I assume that all is well with your installation. The impeller should take the required shape as the pump spins in the correct direction.

Keep us posted and good luck! When does the delivery trip start?

 

[Ski in NC]

Really? I read online many times people warning to ensure that they were installed the correct way. Additionally, the box my pump came in gave directions on which way the impeller should be installed based on your desired direction, and specifically stated that it *was* installed "clockwise" for that reason.

In the end, you have to rotate the impeller to even get it installed, so I'll end up twisting the impeller in the correct direction anyway... so I suppose it's a moot point going forward. But I was under the impression that if you get it installed them the "wrong" way, you'll risk damaging the vanes.

Take the back cover off the pump and try turning it both ways. That will tell you.

Also, many engines kick backward like a 1/4 turn on shutdown, so that reverses the pump a bit. Somehow pumps seem to live through that.

 

[dhays]

I used to try and have the vanes of the impeller oriented the correct direction. After reading informed comments such as Ski's, I quit worrying about it and never had any problems with the impellers.

 

[jovial_cynic]

Keep us posted and good luck! When does the delivery trip start?

In theory... tomorrow! I'm going out to the boat today with the original owner to learn all the nuances of the boat. I'll be taking lots of pictures, writing lots of notes, and then heading down to Olympia with a bunch of other folks. I'm very excited (and a little nervous) about it.

Take the back cover off the pump and try turning it both ways. That will tell you.

Also, many engines kick backward like a 1/4 turn on shutdown, so that reverses the pump a bit. Somehow pumps seem to live through that.

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[GregBrannon]

In theory... tomorrow!

Hope the theory is proved, and I'll be thinking of you. Looking forward to hearing how it works out.

 

[jovial_cynic]

Success!!! More to come. I just docked at Swantown.

 

[jovial_cynic]

Some updated pictures. Man, this first trip sure was fun. 8.5 hours of slow moving fun!

 

[GregBrannon]

Congrats!

 

[dhays]

Some updated pictures. Man, this first trip sure was fun. 8.5 hours of slow moving fun!

Excellent!

Congratulations. Very pretty boat.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Congrats for your successful trip. Wish you the best with your boat!

 

[jovial_cynic]

Thanks, everybody. Technically, "Adventure #1" is now complete as I have made it home. The next step is to get her cleaned up. We are going to spend today cleaning and making the boat look presentable. I think most of today is going to spent in the bilge, where I'm going to be cleaning some brown/orange gunk that's been sitting in the bilge for a couple of years. I believe it has clogged and seized all of the on-board bilge pumps, so I'm going to clean out the bilge and replace the pumps. That should take roughly... all day. Before/After pictures will be coming.

My wife already has her eyes on an "already pretty" boat that we will end up buying, and I'd prefer not to be admiral. Therefore, I've already got the Matthews up for sale on the local craigslist.

 

[menzies]

Huh?

 

[Donsan]

I am beyond disbelief. Is this pretty boat a woody?

Can't wait for the next thrilling episode of "Beyond All Odds".

 

[dhays]

Jovial, I believe there is an old Mathews for sale that is located in the Tacoma Yacht Club. You might take a look to see what a Mathews can look like.

Sounds like you have a project on your hands to clean and then sell this boat. I understand the need to keep your wife happy. That is a good choice.

There is a reason I don't make any major purchase decisions without FIRST getting agreement from my wife.