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Old 04-23-2019, 10:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by hollywood8118 View Post
first off.. here you go..


https://www.amazon.com/Voyaging-Unde...gateway&sr=8-1



Second,


It appears you have totally made up your mind on single vs twin.. why try to persuade others to your side of the argument?


The reality is this, shit happens no matter if you have one or two.



The reality is that your probably more likely to succumb to any number of other things than failure of a single diesel to get you home.. eventually. heart attack, storms, fatigue,swamping, sinking due to twice as many hoses to the outside of the boat, fire, run down by a freighter, running aground.. the list goes on and on.



Has anybody ever heard of a single engine passagemaker (designed and equipped to cross oceans solo, unsupported ) that has quit due to the diesel stopping and not being able to be repaired at sea? .. I have not.


The mindset changes when you have only 1 and you do EVERYTHING to make sure it will keep running.. and you have ALL the spares and ability needed to fix anything short of the block splitting in half.



A local builder of a number of steel passagemakers used a specific CAT engine that if necessary could have a piston removed in the super unlikely event of a massive rotating failure ( I cannot imagine doing it at sea .. in the middle of nowhere but he thought it was possible.. Delfin is a CAT guy and may be able to shed light on this one ) .


I'm comfortable with the right single setup, I feel the accessibility in the ER to easier checks may help to divert disaster to the loss of a power plant. But I really like the wing engine idea as a backup, they are typically out of the way of the main and have other possibilities.


HOLLYWOOD
I'm sorry that you've misunderstood my "motivations". I am NOT trying to convince you or anyone else that two are better than one. Rather, I am just explaining the rationale behind my current position. It makes no difference to me that you go with a single, or believe a single engine is better than two, and I am sure your reasons go deeper than just "purism". It is entirely possible that a single IS better in the right cases.

I do see one significant advantage to a single engine over twins, and that is the protection afforded by the keel to the screw. That, not any minor difference in fuel burn, is the principle reason I have NOT ruled out singles (although, admittedly, leaning strongly toward twins).

BTW, I have purchased a Kindle copy of the book $25.99 or so. Thanks for the "push".

I agree that "poop" happens, but if you have but one main-propulsion plant, you are poop-out-of-luck for all intents and purposes, IMHO.

Your point on engine-access caught my attention, however.

Finally, I do sincerely appreciate your input and advocacy of your viewpoint. I am still hashing this out to a degree, but as one more oriented towards Operations rather than Engineering, I would probably err on the side of having redundancy, rather than relying on my being able to rectify a serious issue. Sure filter changes, no problem, temp and pressure checks, no problem, fluid-level checks, no problem. hose replacement, no problem. Heavy wrench work, not my cup of java!!! In other words, I have more faith in a second engine, than my ability to make a serious repair to a broken single. I don't want to even pretend to be an engineer or mechanic. I hope you understand my rationale, even though you don't agree with it, or feel it is appropriate for you and your skillset.

Mahalo
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:19 PM   #22
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Difference between a plane and a boat is that in a plane if the engine quits (SE) it won't keep flying. If the engine quits in your boat, it'll still float.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:16 AM   #23
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Difference between a plane and a boat is that in a plane if the engine quits (SE) it won't keep flying. If the engine quits in your boat, it'll still float.
True, for a while, anyway.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:16 PM   #24
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Perhaps motorsailer is a good choice.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...house-3230216/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...nc-44-3172585/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/199...ailer-3179555/

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...ailer-3470405/
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:43 PM   #25
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I had an ATL fuel bladder for the previous boat. The Sport Fish crowd love these, and stack them in the aft cockpit. They also make strap kits for other areas, but I wouldn’t do that for longer distances/weather.

I don’t have any desire to cross oceans in a boat or take on big weather, but I admire those that do. Personally, if I was going to do a crossing I wouldn’t want to rely on bladders.

BTW, that story about running one engine, and then swapping a Prop is classic.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:52 PM   #26
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Bladders can be used and work well. Many delivery captains occasionally use drums. However, I'm going to point one thing out, even with a Hatteras.

Most builders have matched fuel capacity to uses they see as appropriate. I see the 42 LRC and just have to think that Hatteras didn't picture it crossing to Hawaii and perhaps it's not really a good boat to make that attempt in.
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Old 04-24-2019, 09:42 PM   #27
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The most off shore I have ever done is from California to Catalina. (A half a dozen trips) One trip in a 27' express cruiser it got a lil exciting. Which in the scheme of things - ain't nothing!!!!


Then I read something like this - Diesel Ducks Home Page

Which in part reads ….. "there were only two boats out there; David, and an 80 tugboat which was swamped and sunk."

As a "wanna be" trawler, show me the marina. May be an over reaction and my tolerance for risk isn't high for the unknown.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:44 PM   #28
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Here is a good article from someone who installed bladders for that exact passage in a trawler (a Nordhavn).

https://mvdirona.com/2012/12/fuel-for-the-crossing/

The single/twin debts will rage on forever but keep in mind most ocean going recreational singles have a smaller ‘get home’ engine (just in case). Generally better fuel burn, easier maintenance, less machinery space = more fuel, etc.

Still, some of the larger Hatteras LRCs and Fleming’s have made some pretty long passages with twins. To each his own.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:14 AM   #29
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Bladders can be used and work well. Many delivery captains occasionally use drums. However, I'm going to point one thing out, even with a Hatteras.

Most builders have matched fuel capacity to uses they see as appropriate. I see the 42 LRC and just have to think that Hatteras didn't picture it crossing to Hawaii and perhaps it's not really a good boat to make that attempt in.
I've been thinking the same thing. Perhaps, one of the two larger models of the LRC. My thinking is very fluid on most of these issues, including # of engines.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:25 AM   #30
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Thanks, but I really want a flybridge with a bit of a "back patio".
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:15 PM   #31
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I would consider "Long Range Cruiser" and "Passage Maker" mutually exclusive. While a passage maker might be a 'long range cruiser', not all LRC's are passage makers.

I would not consider a Hatteras LRC a passage maker. Kady Krogen, Nordhavn, Selene.....
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:53 PM   #32
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I would consider "Long Range Cruiser" and "Passage Maker" mutually exclusive. While a passage maker might be a 'long range cruiser', not all LRC's are passage makers.

I would not consider a Hatteras LRC a passage maker. Kady Krogen, Nordhavn, Selene.....
The list of power boat brands, less than say 60 feet, that have successfully crossed oceans during the last century is very long. Much more than the heavily marketed three mentioned above. Remember the Cheoy Lee 48 (or so) that garnered some comments on TF about 4 months ago?

Not to mention there is far more to a successful crossing than initially fussing about tankage. Starting with crew capability and experience. A good read is the recent blog of Ron and Nancy Goldberg on their Nordhavn 50 "Duet". Their DIY skills are awesome.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:16 PM   #33
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I would consider "Long Range Cruiser" and "Passage Maker" mutually exclusive. While a passage maker might be a 'long range cruiser', not all LRC's are passage makers.

I would not consider a Hatteras LRC a passage maker. Kady Krogen, Nordhavn, Selene.....
Sort of contradicted yourself. Unfortunately, I am not in a financial position to purchase what you consider "passagemakers".
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:11 PM   #34
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Noted a Roughtwater 58 in Hawaii with a SINGLE 6/71, Niaid stabilizers etc. No pictures of engine room that I could see. It was the subject of a short thread on this forum, mostly about Varnish.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...ower-7219.html

Found a brochure, stated fuel, 1,200 gal. Stated Range 2,000nm.

http://www.roughwater.com/content/im...ghwater583.jpg

Any thoughts, feedback.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:42 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open-d View Post
Noted a Roughtwater 58 in Hawaii with a SINGLE 6/71, Niaid stabilizers etc. No pictures of engine room that I could see. It was the subject of a short thread on this forum, mostly about Varnish.



http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...ower-7219.html



Found a brochure, stated fuel, 1,200 gal. Stated Range 2,000nm.



http://www.roughwater.com/content/im...ghwater583.jpg



Any thoughts, feedback.


2,000 NM range is based on 10.5 kt cruise. Lower the cruise speed and the Roughwater would have significant range.

With proper care, a DD 671 NA should last forever.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...dard%20listing
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:59 PM   #36
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2,000 NM range is based on 10.5 kt cruise. Lower the cruise speed and the Roughwater would have significant range.

With proper care, a DD 671 NA should last forever.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...dard%20listing
Yup, proper care on a 40+ year old vessel is the question. Be nice if there were some ER pictures.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:13 PM   #37
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2,000 NM range is based on 10.5 kt cruise. Lower the cruise speed and the Roughwater would have significant range.

With proper care, a DD 671 NA should last forever.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...dard%20listing
Beebe warns against assuming that stated Range is at the Stated Cruising Speed. Quite likely the stated Range is a much lower speed than the State Cruising speed.
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:16 AM   #38
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Beebe warns against assuming that stated Range is at the Stated Cruising Speed. Quite likely the stated Range is a much lower speed than the State Cruising speed.
Don't assume anything. Calculate it using flowmeters and be sure. Also, do not assume your fuel capacity. There have been a lot of 500 gallon fuel tanks sold that only held 460 gallons.
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:49 AM   #39
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Open-d, I gotta ask- are you looking for advice per your original post or to argue away every viewpoint that doesn't match yours?

Lots of experience here, and IMO good advice has been offered. Is your only point to beat others into submission?

Just wondering, after re-reading the entire thread...
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:51 AM   #40
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Don't assume anything. Calculate it using flowmeters and be sure. Also, do not assume your fuel capacity. There have been a lot of 500 gallon fuel tanks sold that only held 460 gallons.
Beebe also warns against those sort of assumptions as well!!! For example, the listing on Yachtworld apparently fudged the fuel capacity upping it from the factory-listed 1200 gallons to 1300 gallons. So many potential pitfalls.
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