Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-22-2020, 03:58 PM   #21
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,830
Greetings,
Mr. sb. "I'm surprised the government hasn't stepped in and created a set of standards, regulations and enforcement like they have with other transport industries. (Auto, Aviation, etc...)" I sorta think they do have regulations under the USCG banner.


These are NOT suggestions but requirements that can be enforced by law. THESE are the rules you have to abide by. NOT the ABYC suggestions.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2020, 04:06 PM   #22
Guru
 
C lectric's Avatar
 
City: Gibsons, B.C., Canada
Vessel Name: Island Pride
Vessel Model: Palmer 32'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,514
I agree with the above advice. I will emphasize that when you buy a crimper get a decent one. THere is a lot of cheap crap out there that will do a poor job..

Go to the following site and do some reading:
https://marinehowto.com/
He is an expert.

I agree about the books, Wing's and Calder's.

In addition to the typical sealant lined heat shrink tubing for the connections and for the terminals I use some light weight clear heat shrink tubing to encapsulate the labels. That will make them permanent. I use a label maker and the tape is sticky, Nylon with an acrylic adhesive, as all get out but after too many labels falling of in my work making repairs absolute heck years later, I started using the clear heat shrink over the labels.

Labeller: Mine was made for T & B but is no longer available. Brother makes several suitable for electrical work.
C lectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2020, 04:48 PM   #23
Guru
 
City: San Diego, CA
Vessel Name: Second Chance
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. sb. "I'm surprised the government hasn't stepped in and created a set of standards, regulations and enforcement like they have with other transport industries. (Auto, Aviation, etc...)" I sorta think they do have regulations under the USCG banner.


These are NOT suggestions but requirements that can be enforced by law. THESE are the rules you have to abide by. NOT the ABYC suggestions.
Good point, the USCG regulations are there and are enforceable. They are really minimal for recreational vessels which drives an entity like ABYC to come up with their standards.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2020, 04:56 PM   #24
Guru
 
City: San Diego, CA
Vessel Name: Second Chance
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 663
TakoRadi, for labeling I use a DYMO 5200 that can print directly on shrink tube in four sizes, the shrink tube comes in cartridges just like the stick-on tapes do (which it will also print onto). Great when labeling new wiring where I can put the shrink tube on before the connector.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2020, 06:25 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
sledge's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Vessel Model: American Tug 41
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takoradi View Post
Sledge, is there a particular label maker/labels that withstand the moisture and heat of the engine room?


Tak
As some others noted, I too just use a Brother P-touch, and when you get replacement cartridges you can search for the water resistant version and they can typically handle the heat of an engine room.
One point if you are a little OCD like me; not all Brother or other models will do black on clear/white on black. Most will do the common black type on white.
I got a P-touch that does all three because you might find the OEM of the boat used white on black for certain things like circuit breaker labels.... but maybe they used black on white to label plumbing... etc.
sledge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2020, 05:41 AM   #26
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,138
"One more thing if you don't have it: I'd recommend an electric label maker so you can label everything as you go along, these are priceless on a boat"

YES!

And be sure to label any wire at an end and again a foot or two along the wire and cover the labels with clear tape.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2020, 10:59 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
friz's Avatar
 
City: Florida
Vessel Name: Chez Reagan
Vessel Model: Cargile Cutter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 186
2008 edition. There may be a newer one but this one should keep you confused.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AC & DC Systems on Boats ABYC 2008.pdf (225.5 KB, 37 views)
friz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2020, 02:16 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
City: St. Petersburg
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 281
There is a lot of incorrect info in this thread including:
sbman #7:
Quote:
This is one thing I really have against the ABYC standards. As a boat owner, wanting to have the actual list of standards even if they do read like government regulations was something I wanted as well and also looked for. You have to rely on hearsay and third party interpretations which is annoying unless you want to spend several thousand dollars to buy all the applicable standards, with the electrical alone at more than $500 as the OP states. Something reasonably priced for the boat owner/ DIY straight from the source that covered most things a boat owner might work with (Electrical, through hulls, plumbing, etc...) would sure be nice.
The fact is, anybody can join for $190/year which gains 24 hour/day access to ALL the ABYC standards. The $500 for the electrical standard (E-11) and thousands of dollars for all the standards is just flat wrong.https://abycinc.org/mpage/becomeamember

To then point about correcting what the surveyor has written up: surveyors rarely go behind the power panel and do not open up connection boxes, etc. so, if there are lots of electrical problems not in plain sight, the surveyor did not see them, they will not be written into the survey report which renders the typical survey report pretty minimal for electrical items.

To mitigate this shortfall, I recommend that a perspective buyer hire an experienced marine electrician, certified by ABYC, to perform an electrical survey prior to making an offer. I once recommended this to a boat broker that I had done a lot of work for and he said "I can't do that. It will bilge too many deals." Now that's buyer beware if I ever heard it!

I do concur with buying Nigel Calder's book. It is easy to read with great illustrations and he is part of the ABYC review process so ABYC requirements make their way into his book.

I have personally had several discussions with the powers at ABYC to try and get the Standards as open source. I continue to be turned down primarily because the other standards writing organizations (UL, NFPA, ISO, ASME, NMEA, IEEE, etc., etc.) charge for their standards.
__________________
Charlie Johnson
ABYC Master Technician
CharlieJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2020, 02:45 PM   #29
Guru
 
City: San Diego, CA
Vessel Name: Second Chance
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieJ View Post
There is a lot of incorrect info in this thread including:
sbman #7:


The fact is, anybody can join for $190/year which gains 24 hour/day access to ALL the ABYC standards. The $500 for the electrical standard (E-11) and thousands of dollars for all the standards is just flat wrong.https://abycinc.org/mpage/becomeamember
Glad to be wrong here. I had not seen any way for recreational boaters to join AYBC, it appeared to be limited to industry professionals. I see now there is a second side of their website if you hit the 'Recreational' button up on the top right corner of their website. Thank you for pointing this out, just joined and will see what's available.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2020, 02:56 PM   #30
Veteran Member
 
Takoradi's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Vessel Name: The Janie C
Vessel Model: Uniflite 42
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 95
CharlieJ, yes thank you for the correction. This is such a great web site.



Tak
__________________
One day no be all day
Takoradi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 11:43 AM   #31
Guru
 
City: San Diego, CA
Vessel Name: Second Chance
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 663
So after joining (for free, 5 days) I was able to view the entire standards library, and print the ones I'm interested in referencing. I also received a 'members only' special offer to pre order a printed copy of the standards for less than $100 in a book form although that offer ends tomorrow. That's very reasonable and a good option.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 11:58 AM   #32
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,830
Greetings,
Mr. sb. !s that $100 for ALL the "standards" or only one section?
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 12:01 PM   #33
Veteran Member
 
Takoradi's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Vessel Name: The Janie C
Vessel Model: Uniflite 42
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 95
Thank you All Y’All! Great answers
__________________
One day no be all day
Takoradi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 12:08 PM   #34
Guru
 
City: San Diego, CA
Vessel Name: Second Chance
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. sb. !s that $100 for ALL the "standards" or only one section?
It's actually $89 for the entire standards in a printed book format, members only pre-order price, it's for the upcoming release.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 12:45 PM   #35
Member
 
City: Hinckley
Vessel Name: Erie Sponsible
Vessel Model: Uniflite 42DC
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 14
FYI-The original wiring on my '81 42DC Uniflite was done very well. Not to current standards, but all tinned copper and pretty well thought out. What was bad was stuff previous owners added. I added GFCI's, removed added Romex, and hope to remove unused stuff. Plan to upgrade to 50A service with ELCI. I guess what I am saying is, you may not have to do as much as you think. Hit the dangerous stuff first, then start pecking away at it.
sparky66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 01:12 PM   #36
Guru
 
City: San Diego, CA
Vessel Name: Second Chance
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky66 View Post
FYI-The original wiring on my '81 42DC Uniflite was done very well. Not to current standards, but all tinned copper and pretty well thought out. What was bad was stuff previous owners added. I added GFCI's, removed added Romex, and hope to remove unused stuff. Plan to upgrade to 50A service with ELCI. I guess what I am saying is, you may not have to do as much as you think. Hit the dangerous stuff first, then start pecking away at it.
I've found the same. All the original wiring on my '77 42 DC is done to a high standard with good quality materials and still perfectly serviceable. Thankfully there are very few modifications or additions so overall in pretty good shape.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 01:12 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
garychurch's Avatar
 
City: Green Cove Springs
Vessel Name: Laa-Dee-Dah
Vessel Model: 64’ Grand Banks Aleutian
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 104
Standards organizations, such as SAE, RTCM, RTCA, etc are NOT government organizations they are commercial industry associations which also may have government membership and/or charter.

They make their money by selling standards created, sponsoring meeting and associated activities. Occasionally they can get government sponsorship of identified and needed standards.
garychurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 01:19 PM   #38
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by garychurch View Post
Standards organizations, such as SAE, RTCM, RTCA, etc are NOT government organizations they are commercial industry associations which also may have government membership and/or charter.

They make their money by selling standards created, sponsoring meeting and associated activities. Occasionally they can get government sponsorship of identified and needed standards.
Very true, yet surveyors and insurance companies treat ABYC Standards as if they are LAW!
Alaskan Sea-Duction is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 01:25 PM   #39
Guru
 
City: San Diego, CA
Vessel Name: Second Chance
Vessel Model: 42' Uniflite Double Cabin
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan Sea-Duction View Post
Very true, yet surveyors and insurance companies treat ABYC Standards as if they are LAW!
Since finding access to them through the free membership, and printing the ones I knew applied to my boat, I've already referred to them several times in less than a week. They are nothing mystical or hard to understand and are written in no-nonsense easy to understand wording.

I was looking at my bilge pump installations for instance and it's nice to able to just look at the appropriate complete document instead of digging through one or more DIY repair books looking for information and hoping it's complete.
sbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2020, 01:48 PM   #40
Guru
 
Alaskan Sea-Duction's Avatar
 
City: Inside Passage Summer/Columbia River Winter
Vessel Name: Alaskan Sea-Duction
Vessel Model: 1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbman View Post
Since finding access to them through the free membership, and printing the ones I knew applied to my boat, I've already referred to them several times in less than a week. They are nothing mystical or hard to understand and are written in no-nonsense easy to understand wording.

I was looking at my bilge pump installations for instance and it's nice to able to just look at the appropriate complete document instead of digging through one or more DIY repair books looking for information and hoping it's complete.
I agree they are a good resource, but they are not a legal standard.
Alaskan Sea-Duction is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
abyc, codes, electrical, standards

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012