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Old 09-26-2017, 09:32 AM   #81
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8 people on a flybridge? Only if 7 of them are supermodels.
...and I'm the 8th person!
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:36 AM   #82
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OK, I stand corrected!!
So only 3 super models allowed on bridge with captain.
Wifey B: And now you'll have to correct Flywright too. Bunch of greedy men want 7, when they can't even handle 3.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:29 AM   #83
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OK, I stand corrected!!
So only 3 super models allowed on bridge with captain.
And I know a few Captains that can't handle one.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:36 AM   #84
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There will always be people who push things to the limits. This is fine when it is ONLY their own lives at stake. Trouble is many times stupid actions by one person cause harm to many people. Then there are people who encourage others to take stupid actions that they might not be prepared to take for themselves. We may have some of both answering this posting. The OP obviously wants to stretch the limits and is seeking confirmation that it is OK to do so. There is no prudent way to do what he is proposing---ipso facto he is taking unnecessary risks with others well-being.
Chris,

There's nothing wrong with operating to the limits, but we have to set limits and not stretch them one inch. And in some cases the limit changes with conditions.

As for the OP, his post is looking for good information, no where does it imply that he's asking our blessing to operate beyond safe limits. There "may" be a prudent way to do what he's asking, but he's shown no indication of taking unnecessary risks with others. Not fair to categorize him as unsafe. A prudent captain DOES ask questions.

I'm not an expert on weight and balance with his boat, so I won't comment as to what a limit might be. And "common sense" and what one "feels" is not good enough to make decisions like this when you "may" be operating at a limit. One needs facts.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:41 AM   #85
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As a prudent mariner I never let women over 105 lbs. on the flybridge.

It says so right in the official Marine Trader owner's manual.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:48 AM   #86
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As a prudent mariner I never let women over 105 lbs. on the flybridge.

It says so right in the official Marine Trader owner's manual.
Wifey B: Now you've just made me feel like Stephen Curry. Uninvited from a place I wasn't going to go to anyway.

I weighed 133 this morning.

Hope you just invite short girls cause I'd hate to see a girl my height (5'9 1/2") who weighed less than 105.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:35 PM   #87
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No women over 5'2". Wife won't allow them.

I'm only following orders.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:36 PM   #88
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No women over 5'2". Wife won't allow them.

I'm only following orders.
Wifey B: Does she also have a limit on the size of men?
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:41 PM   #89
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That would be sexist.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:32 PM   #90
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Wifey B: Supermodels typically between 5'9" and 6'0" (except Kate Moss at 5'7") and weigh between 120 lbs and 140 lbs. Most start modeling around 16 years old and weigh between 110 and 120 at that time.

People tend to underestimate the weight of the average person which is problematic for elevators and flybridges. Now the tiny 5'1" teen probably does weigh 100-110 lbs. But the average woman in Brazil and France is 138 lbs, Sweden is 147 lbs and US is 165 lbs. Average US Man is 195 lbs so out the window goes your estimates based on 150 lbs. as the average US adult is 180 lbs. Average Brazilian man is 160 lb and French man is 170 lb and Sweden is 180 lbs. Average height in US if 5'10" for men and 5'4" for women.

WHO is working to ban underweight/anorexic models. In fact, standards would call for a 5'10" model to weigh at least 129 lbs to be allowed on the runway. A BMI under 18.5 would be banned.

Gisele Bundchen 126 lbs.
Adriana Lima 135 lbs
Kate Moss 121 lbs
Lara Stone 132 lbs
Alessandra Ambrosia 119 lbs

Some of the other supermodel measurements would surprise you too.
This poster is impressed!!! You are not a 'voyager' by chance (Pun intended)

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Old 09-26-2017, 03:10 PM   #91
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This poster is impressed!!! You are not a 'voyager' by chance (Pun intended)

Al
Wifey B: Voyeur would be the word. Sort of ruins the pun though. No, I don't even pay attention to models but I've gathered the information to discourage young girls from unhealthy eating in a quest to be super thin. Our high schools have quite a bit Anorexia and Bulimia and other eating disorders as young girls start thinking normal is fat and whatever they weigh feels it's too much.

Now, the original post here was a joke and doesn't bother me. However, it does bother me when a 16 year old is 5'8" and weighs 115 and thinks she needs to lose weight and risks her health to try to do so.

Kids were seeing runway models ultra thin and fortunately the fashion shows have turned and will not allow them to model now. I know we've run terribly off topic and apologize for that but continuing with just one final thought.

We, inclusive of all people kids see, set examples. I've seen teen kids constantly concerned about their very normal weight because their mom was obsessed with hers. There are celebrities who have done very dangerous dieting to get very thin, too thin. The emphasis on appearance versus what's inside destroys the self esteem of so many young girls. There are actually clubs in schools in a few areas made up of anorexic and bulimic girls but not as a support group to help them with their disorder, instead as a group to support each other in doing what they have decided is right and supporting the concept that anorexia and bulimia are good.

Now, back to the fly bridge. I'd limit at 4 and that's strictly based on appearance and being careful. To go higher I'd need to see something concrete and proven on the boat in question. We've placed limits on our boats and they're not from the builder or anything else. They're based on size of boat and bridge and various calculations including Australian and available seating. They are likely lower than some would carry, but better to err in that direction than the opposite. The CE certification actually does include number of people but it's for the total boat. They might rate a boat B8 and C10. Beneteau has that type rating on their boats. It's saying 10 people close to shore but 8 offshore. However, once you see the total number then we don't go to the Australian formula that limits those on the bridge to 1/4 but we consider it.

I think the OP showed great listening skills. I do believe he came in wanting confirmation 8 or 6 was ok, but when people responded he decided 4 was his number. I applaud him for that.

A lot of people ask questions but have predetermined their answers and we just spin our wheels responding as they ignore any that don't agree with them.

I'm so suffering boat withdrawal. Help! 25 days and no boating. That's a record for us.
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:19 PM   #92
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A few years ago a Silverton rolled over on the East Coast during a fireworks display due to too many people on the fly bridge. A similar incident occurred off Vancover Island recently when a whale watching vessel rolled over. Lives were lost in both cases.
I had read about this as my current 'crush' is on the Silverton 36/38 Convertibles.

The Silverton that rolled in 2012 was a 34 foot boat that the captain said rolled because of a "rogue" wave. Me thinks that having 27 persons on board was a contributing factor! Unfortunately, three children in the saloon lost their lives. Incredibly, last year another Silverton 34 capsized. This one had 30 persons on board! (fortunately, all survived)

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Old 09-26-2017, 03:37 PM   #93
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[QUOTE=BandB;595920]Wifey B: Voyeur would be the word. Sort of ruins the pun though. No, I don't even pay attention to models but I've gathered the information to discourage young girls from unhealthy eating in a quest to be super thin. Our high schools have quite a bit Anorexia and Bulimia and other eating disorders as young girls start thinking normal is fat and whatever they weigh feels it's too much.


Point noted and taken. On the other hand, I am just stupefied at the extreme number of not just overweight women wandering the streets, but 'Huge' women who appear to just not care how they appear in public. Yes, yes, I know, 1st amendment. Still from my perspective, they appear unhealthy and the thought going through my mind as I view these folks, is "God, what will the surgeon think as he/she prepare to operate, other than the content of the Hippocratic oath ?"

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Old 09-26-2017, 04:42 PM   #94
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[QUOTE=Al;595926]
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Point noted and taken. On the other hand, I am just stupefied at the extreme number of not just overweight women wandering the streets, but 'Huge' women who appear to just not care how they appear in public. Yes, yes, I know, 1st amendment. Still from my perspective, they appear unhealthy and the thought going through my mind as I view these folks, is "God, what will the surgeon think as he/she prepare to operate, other than the content of the Hippocratic oath ?"

Al-Ketchikan
Wifey B: There's no first amendment involved in how one looks in public. I see the overweight women and I feel bad for them. It's a very large problem and doctors do nothing really to help them. Until we recognize it as a condition and not a character flaw, we'll never address it. No one wants to be morbidly obese and they do greatly endanger their health. There's a weight for all of us that is our healthy norm. Too slim or too big are both health issues. I know I'm very lucky not to have either problem and I work hard with my hubby for both of us to stay that way. But i do feel for all those struggling with weight.

As to surgery, it changes many procedures dramatically and an obese person gets reminded of it throughout any major procedures. I worked with a teacher I felt so bad for, maybe the best teacher I've ever met.
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:42 PM   #95
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The wrangler who guided us over the Sierra Nevada Mountains limited rider weight to 200 pounds. I asked him what if about Arnold Schwarzenegger wanted to ride. The wrangler said Arnold would have to walk.
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:54 PM   #96
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You guys are complicating this. Put as many pax as you like(or don`t like) on the FB. Consequent roll of the boat will flick the excess overboard leaving the correct FB loading complement. This assumes the boat hasn`t capsized or sunk during the "load adjustment" process.
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:59 PM   #97
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Wow! As the OP, I had no idea my innocent little post would generate such a discussion! The idea I like the best is to tow some of the guests in the dinghy. They will get a great view and eat fewer of the snacks. The rest can stay in the cabin and watch the air show thru the side windows.

Seriously, I'm convinced to allow no more than 4 on the fly bridge, and fewer if conditions are rough or the wakes are too big. I have no problem with hanging out a little farther away from the action, so more of the show will be viewable off to the side rather than overhead.

BTW, Grand Banks seems to be very difficult to reach these days, unless you want to buy a new 60-footer. I doubt very much they would have real and/or accurate stability data in any event. I tend to be a pretty cautious skipper and, worst case, I can call all of you as witnesses for the defense in my court case! (grin).
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:04 PM   #98
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Oldersalt, FWIW I think your FB load rule makes a lot of sense,commonsense that is. A basic rule, with the limit adjusted down as conditions dictate. Happy safe boating!
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:15 PM   #99
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The CE certification actually does include number of people but it's for the total boat.

Just to clarify a little, if the procedures are followed properly, CE capacity calculations are performed with all crew in their 'worst-case' positions unless otherwise noted in the boat's user manual and with highly regulated stickers placed in prominent locations (ladders to the FB, etc.). That means for some tests the crew may be all located up on the FB - if they fit with a reasonable level of crowding assumed - where they raise the CG and thus reduce inherent stability, and for other tests they may be all located outboard along the side decks where they produce the highest possible heeling moment.

And if there is built-in seating with space for 8 on the FB, or enough room for 8 to stand comfortably, then the boat needs to meet criteria with 8 crew up there or else prominently display a limit to instruct the skipper otherwise. The lawyers and their stickers are trying to be pretty informative these days.

It would be very interesting to see how all of our gut feelings on stability and safety compare to the limits set forth in the various regulatory criteria. Unfortunately I for one don't have that kind of time.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:36 PM   #100
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It would be very interesting to see how all of our gut feelings on stability and safety compare to the limits set forth in the various regulatory criteria. Unfortunately I for one don't have that kind of time.
Well, let's do a Beneteau Swift Trawler 44 then. Here are some basics.

LOA 45'6"
Hull 39'11"
Beam 13'11"
Light Displacement 23,957

Motorboat Swift Trawler 44 - Powerboat Beneteau USA

Scroll down and click on flybridge to get a good look at it.
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