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Old 06-21-2017, 05:21 PM   #101
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Dani: for easy engine access avoid V style engines. Inline sixes run smooth and usually provide better hull side access.


Will do. Thanks.
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Old 06-21-2017, 05:29 PM   #102
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[QUOTE=smitty477;565758]
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No problem - we are used to hearing that over the years. We traveled for many years with a paper cruising club that was about 40 boats strong- most of them were Sea Rays. We did a lot of cruising 'loops' of between 100- and 250 miles with these Sea Rays: 31, 33, 37, 38, 40, 45, 46, 48 and a 62 to name some of them. Not sure what you mean by rough seas but none of these boats are really great in really rough seas - the 4788 weighs in at about #35,000 with a half load but its not a great rough water boat by design. The roughest we have been in (not by choice) was about 12" with tight spacing and green water coming up over the bow - the boat did much better than we did. Over the years I did get a chance to work on and fix a bunch of those Sea Rays during our travels.....



I do not consider my Sea Ray a good rough water boat. The biggest I have ben in is 6 to 8's and it was not fun. If I see anything more than 2's to 3's I stay inside, unless of course it is a favorable wind (i.e. North wind and we are running on the south shore). Sea rays are built for coastal and bay pleasure cruising. They are great over priced comfortable pleasure boats. They are not In the same league as a quality trawler.
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Old 06-21-2017, 05:37 PM   #103
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Todd,

No I have not considered a Saberline, but now I will add it to my list to research.

Thanks,

Jeff
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POACH is a 1994 Sabreline 36 Fast Trawler with twin 300 Cats. It's a tri-cabin. It is very comfortable at 8-9kt, but it's nice to be able to make a speed run at 16+ when I need to. I think Sabre made the model up to the early 2000s. The fuel consumption I pay attention to when I need to run fast, is what is the mpg sweetspot. The fuel curve for the boat is very interesting.
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Old 06-21-2017, 05:56 PM   #104
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[QUOTE=Dani-lu;565746]
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Smitty,

No insult intended, but Bayliners have a bad rap in my neck of the woods. But. I have heard some good things about the larger Bayliners like the ones you mention. It is definitely worthwhile researching. The negative I have heard about the express cruisers, is they tend to be a lot lighter than other brand boats of same size. So they tend to get tossed around more in rough seas and a lot more pounding. I have been on a friend's 35' Bayliner (lost in Sandy) and now his 35' Sea Ray and my friend says the Bayliner bow had no weight to it and made docking with a cross wind a nightmare. He also said the Sea Ray was a lot more comfortable in rough water.

I will add the Bayliners you mention to my research list.

Thanks,

Jeff
No insult intended, but talk to owners of Bayliners on this forum before forming an opinion based on random thoughts of those who haven't. We're not talking express models but pilothouse models. More boat for the money than nearly anything you can imagine. There was a thread here some time back and we tried to find a single Bayliner owner here who felt negatively. We couldn't do it. The Bayliner pilothouse models built in Arlington, WA were well built boats and have stood the test of time. Definitely research them more.
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Old 06-21-2017, 06:19 PM   #105
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I have to say I love the look and layout of most of the Krogens. I have even been talking to a gal about going to see a few in Virginia. Just don't know if we can handle the 8kt cruise, all the time. I could see us running 8kts and less on most legs of the ICW or ocean from NY to Florida, but I like knowing I can get up and go if I need to. I guess I am not a sailor, rather a motor boater. But, my wife and I may change our minds. I like the look of a Marlow and Fleming too. I just think my eyes may not be connected to my bank account.
I guess that someone such as I didn't buy a Krogen to get from point A to point B so I can understand the concern you would have. But our cruising at 6 or 7 kts has taken us on just about every waterway/canal in the United States and Canada east of the Mississippi with the exception of Lake Superior and parts of the Ohio, and Cumberland (by choice). Many of our fondest memories arose from places we would have skipped over if we had hurried by.
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Old 06-21-2017, 06:30 PM   #106
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Courtesy expressed at every passing if we all traveled at 8 knots.
Fuel consumption would be less than half.
Cruisers would begin to appreciate all the sights they pass as they would have time to see them.
Cussing on the radio would become nonexistent.
But what the hell. We have places to go.
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Old 06-21-2017, 08:11 PM   #107
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Now we cruise with comfort at 6 knots in relaxed mode on autopilot.
That's the key for me: an autopilot makes any boat pleasing at modest speeds.
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Old 06-22-2017, 05:27 AM   #108
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"for easy engine access avoid V style engines. Inline sixes run smooth and usually provide better hull side access."

More modern V engines may only have a 10deg V , so a new V6 is very narrow , EZ to work on and has the lack of vibration desired by all.
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Old 06-22-2017, 07:57 AM   #109
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but they still have two of a lot of parts that inline engines only have on of.
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Old 06-22-2017, 08:01 AM   #110
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Funny think about the concept that some boats are better than others. In terms of hull shape there are differences that make for handling differences but in decades of boating. North east, south east and coastal SF. I have docked or rafted with so many different brands that after a while I couldn't distinguish much in the way of owner satisfaction.
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Old 06-22-2017, 08:59 AM   #111
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We have made the "crossing" from Dog Island to Tarpon several times as part of a flotilla. After looking at all the different boats in exactly the same conditions as us, I have yet to see one that I wanted to trade places with. I am sure they all said the same thing.

Most of them were Loopers with 5 or 6 thousand miles under their belts and were comfortable with their boats, as I am now with mine. So while some might 'ride' better, it is more how well you know your boat than the boat itself. (within reason of course).
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:35 PM   #112
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We have made the "crossing" from Dog Island to Tarpon several times as part of a flotilla. After looking at all the different boats in exactly the same conditions as us, I have yet to see one that I wanted to trade places with. I am sure they all said the same thing.

Most of them were Loopers with 5 or 6 thousand miles under their belts and were comfortable with their boats, as I am now with mine. So while some might 'ride' better, it is more how well you know your boat than the boat itself. (within reason of course).
I admit to prejudice as I have tremendous respect and admiration for the founder of Bayliner. However, I don't think there is even today a boat that meets it's purpose better than the Bayliner Pilothouse models did and the quality of those boats has stood the test of time. I see the Beneteau Swift Trawler as targeting that market now and doing a pretty good job. I see the various tug lines going after the same customer. There are some nice boats in that range but none do better at space utilization.

Bayliner's name gets trashed sometimes based on their entry level runabouts. However, those changed the entire pricing structure at the lower end of the market, shook Sea Ray and Mercury Marine up so bad, Brunswick had to buy them. They were sold to new boaters, abused and yes, many of them ended up in bad condition ultimately. But the cruisers, the Pilothouse models were much different boats, built in a different place and very well done. Too bad that facility is now converted to other uses. That would have been the ideal work force to restart a boat line with.
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Old 06-22-2017, 03:15 PM   #113
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I have a feeling I can get used to 8kts. But, I like knowing I can run a bit faster in a strong current or to out run some weather. I guess this reads Semi-displacement.
And, that's the good part. Enjoying 8 knots most of the time, but being able to go faster if you really need to. But, we're retired, so we don't really need to very often.

I always figure that the guys going 20 knots up the ICW just don't have that much time to enjoy on the water and are trying to make up for that lack of time with more speed.
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Old 06-22-2017, 03:28 PM   #114
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And, that's the good part. Enjoying 8 knots most of the time, but being able to go faster if you really need to. But, we're retired, so we don't really need to very often.

I always figure that the guys going 20 knots up the ICW just don't have that much time to enjoy on the water and are trying to make up for that lack of time with more speed.
Wifey B: I can enjoy things quickly and with speed and gives more time to enjoy more things on shore. I've never gone 8 knots. That's idle.

Today I'll soon be going between 450 and 500 knots, but it won't be enjoyable. However, the destination will be. Yes, we're actually going somewhere on a plane.
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Old 06-22-2017, 03:52 PM   #115
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Feel we have the best that could be asked for regarding comfortable, relatively small sized "boat-world"... i.e. our 34' Tolly!


We love piddling along at 6 to 7 knots. Very pleasant, quiet and quite economical. We also enjoy planing at at 17 knots. Still very pleasant, fairly quiet, not so economical; but not too bad $$ wise. When in extended 5 mph zones, I shut down one engine. That too is pleasant, and very economical... at a whisper of engine sound. Then there is always WOT that offers some small thrill to have our really well appointed tri cabin Tollycraft doing high plane at 22 knots. However, the words affordable and quiet therein no longer apply to our boating lexicon.
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:06 PM   #116
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Feel we have the best that could be asked for regarding comfortable, relatively small sized "boat-world"... i.e. our 34' Tolly!


We love piddling along at 6 to 7 knots. Very pleasant, quiet and quite economical. We also enjoy planing at at 17 knots. Still very pleasant, fairly quiet, not so economical; but not too bad $$ wise. When in extended 5 mph zones, I shut down one engine. That too is pleasant, and very economical... at a whisper of engine sound. Then there is always WOT that offers some small thrill to have our really well appointed tri cabin Tollycraft doing high plane at 22 knots. However, the words affordable and quiet therein no longer apply to our boating lexicon.
I was thinking about doing the same, but I worry about causing damage. How did you find out if running on one engine could cause problems in the long run?
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:17 PM   #117
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I was thinking about doing the same, but I worry about causing damage. How did you find out if running on one engine could cause problems in the long run?
You ask the maker of your marine transmission if it can freewheel and for how long.
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:20 PM   #118
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Wifey B: I can enjoy things quickly and with speed and gives more time to enjoy more things on shore. I've never gone 8 knots. That's idle.

Today I'll soon be going between 450 and 500 knots, but it won't be enjoyable. However, the destination will be. Yes, we're actually going somewhere on a plane.
That reminds me of everytime I get asked how long it takes us to get to the Bahamas from our home port. When I say, six to eight weeks usually, the response is often, "Can't you do it any faster than that?" I reply, "Sure, if I want to take the fun out if it".
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:22 PM   #119
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I was thinking about doing the same, but I worry about causing damage. How did you find out if running on one engine could cause problems in the long run?
Per factory input, our Borg Warner Velvet Drive trany can withstand free wheel rotation. In addition to keeping it at slow speed for sake of the trany I also switch engines running time about every 30 to 45 minutes. Can't be too careful IMO.


Check with your trany mfg to see if free wheeling in OK.
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:56 PM   #120
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Wifey B: I can enjoy things quickly and with speed and gives more time to enjoy more things on shore.
I can enjoy things quickly and with speed and give me more time to do other things as well. My wife isn't terribly satisfied with that however.
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