53ft, 2 Hands, No Thruster - Crazy or EZ?

[markpj23]

New to this forum but experienced boater. Last boat was a Manta 43 sail cat that I had no trouble single-handing. Something about having engines 21 feet apart made dockside handling easy..


Now starting our trawler adventures. 1st mate will have limited ability to help handling lines, etc. I expect to have her at the helm using 2-way radio to work the engines at my 'suggestions' to make the approach.


Considering a boat with no thrusters. Lots more windage on this type of boat of course.



So is this a valid concern on my part or is it not that big of a deal to maneuver a twin screw boat (50-ish LOA) without the thrusters?


Best advice?

 

[IRENE]

Its not that big of a deal. Thrusters were mostly unheard of below 80 feet in 1990. There was a nearly-new 92’ Broward on my dock, for example, with no thruster. When I worked at a Hatteras store, the new 65 and 70 were both without thrusters.

I am not against thrusters and actually believe they have helped many people become comfortable with boat operation. Not everyone is a machine person, or able to grasp the physics involved. Thrusters have probably contributed to the success of the boating industry, just look at their availability on new boats.

My advice would be to obtain some training from someone who knows how to handle a boat. Practice to proficiency, use good headsets with your captain/mate, and have good fenders. This advice would not change even if you had thrusters. Remember slow is pro.

Edit - There will be days you could use a competent hand on the dock. I recently found someone to help me with a singlehanded departure from a transient berth. Don’t be afraid to find someone to help you leave, or call before you arrive.

 

[gsholz]

Twin engines will allow better control than low horsepower, intermittent use thrusters. Thrusters are a band aid.

 

[sunchaser]

MPJ
On a twin engine boat a pro can do quite well in a fishing or commercial boat where hull bruises are acceptable. On a 50' nicely finished boat it is well worth the cost to have a bow thruster. Peace of mind, marital bliss, few boat scars and happy mooring mates in a tight slip are just a few of the advantages.

I've been at this for over 60 years. Our current boat, purchased new, was not equipped with a bow thruster. After four years one was installed. It was a very good decision for our boat and in our case.

 

[MYTraveler]

A few boats ago, I had a mid-30's twin engine with no thrusters. I never wished for thrusters with that boat, so when I graduated to my last boat - a mid 50's twin engine sport fisher, I was not at all concerned by the lack of thrusters, and for the most part never wished for them. However, coming out of my slip, which was defined by shallow boulders and a seawall on the port side when backed into the slip, necessitated the use of spring lines (and fortunately, there were pilings in the right places to spring from). Even without wind or current, the only way to turn to starboard without swinging the stern toward the rocks and seawall perilously close on the port side, was a combination of careful use of spring lines and good close quarter maneuvering skills by the driver.

Moral of the story, you may find yourself in situations where good line handling is necessary when a bow thruster would allow the driver to maneuver the boat without assistance. In your case (OP), a bow thruster may be worth the cost.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

As stated. practice practice, practice. Go as fast as you want to hit something.

I have a 48ft with twins, no thrusters. I have windage too. Sometimes it will take you 5 times to make it to the dock when you have current and wind going against you. If you have a good boat pole, use it when you get close to the dock.

Good Luck

 

[Ken E.]

Thrusters are handy but not a necessity. My boat doesn't have them. As mentioned above, a very effective tool in docking and undocking is the use of spring lines. Chapmans has a good section on spring lines that I still refer to from time to time.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Thrusters are another tool in the box, like having twins and using differential thrust. Anything that makes boating easier and safer is to be embraced, not disparaged.

 

[soin2la]

As noted, until they became a new, reasonably priced tool, operators got without thrusters forever.

I would look more at your personal circumstances of where you will be boating, docking, windages, tight spaces and shallows, to assist in the decision making.

I also suggest it will be quicker and less stressful to train your “1st mate” in line handling than boat handling. You can do that without leaving the doc, or your yard.

 

[C lectric]

My only concern after making fun of a lot of people with thrusters is they are a good tool to have.

HOWEVER, I have seen people using them INSTEAD of learning how to handle the boat adequately, maybe not expertly, but adequately. You should not become dependent upon it.

Then the thruster fails for one reason or another and in what should have been a simple docking they cannot handle the boat.

If you get one do not depend upon it as a primary steering aid. Learn how to handle the boat at least adequately. And get some docking training. It will pay off in the long haul and reduce stress big time.

 

[Blissboat]

As most above have said, a thruster is a nice luxury but non-essential. A fifty-ish foot boat with twins is quite maneuverable under most conditions. In conditions where wind and current overwhelm the boat's maneuverability, a thruster is unlikely to be enough to recover a desperate situation.

As an experienced boater and a sailor to boot, you already know that practice seldom makes perfect, but it absolutely makes better. You also probably know that in ten minutes of maneuvering in a stiff wind, you learn more about your boat's characteristics than a month of handling in calm conditions.

 

[Comodave]

You do need to practice handling the boat, but there certainly are reasons to have thrusters. We put a stern thruster on our boat since my wife does the bow lines and I have to get down from the flybridge and handle the stern line. I found that I was rushing and trying to get past our dog that wants to always be first. It was a dangerous situation and sooner or later I was going to fall and either hurt myself or the dog. Put in a stern thruster with a wireless remote and now I can get down from the bridge carefully and then use the thruster to bring the stern back to the dock. As you get older and less spry and less strong thrusters can be invaluable to keep you boating. If you can’t muscle the boat to the dock then you will stop boating. However with thrusters you can keep boating longer into old age.

 

[rgano]

MPJ
On a twin engine boat a pro can do quite well in a fishing or commercial boat where hull bruises are acceptable. On a 50' nicely finished boat it is well worth the cost to have a bow thruster. Peace of mind, marital bliss, few boat scars and happy mooring mates in a tight slip are just a few of the advantages.

I've been at this for over 60 years. Our current boat, purchased new, was not equipped with a bow thruster. After four years one was installed. It was a very good decision for our boat and in our case.

I whole heartedly agree. My first experience of handling anything more than the family runabout was a twin screw vessel (80-footer yard patrol craft) in 1965, and I grew up from there thinking that twin screws was quite enough and later came to call thrusters "cheaters." I now laughingly call my own thruster my cheater! A professional like me does not shun any tool offered to him and never gets overly dependent on any of them, including those twin engines!

 

[Woodland Hills]

Today I had to hoist our tender out of the water while being blown against the dock by the wind. I needed to fit the tender between the dock and the side of the boat. I just loosened the stern line and had the Admiral use the stern thruster to move the stern away from the dock and hold it there while I moved the tender, hooked it to the bridle and hoisted the tender up to the boat deck.
What could have been a PITA involving boat hooks and lots of effort was simple and easy.

 

[Comodave]

We were docked at a different marina on a side tie. The wind was blowing onto the dock at a steady 30+ MPH. One of the fenders rolled out. I went out and was pushing on the boat as hard as I could, even with my back on the boat and using my legs to push. Nothing, I couldn’t move the boat at all. Then it dawned on me to try the stern thruster, my wife activated it and immediately the boat moved upwind and I could put the fender back in place.

 

[Bacchus]

Good answers above on both sides...
A competent skipper can do a lot with twins.
Thruster(s) can add significant assistance and make life easier for those less than expert skippers, add years to your cruising enjoyment and and provide a degree of safety vs rushing to capture lines etc.
Mine is a single with prop in a tunnel so unable to take advantage of prop walk. Previou owner added stern thruster to the factory bow thruster. I added a wireless remote and it comes in handy in some situations.
I would strongly recommend a good headset vs hand held radio as it will allow a more normal conversation and full use of hands.
So much depends on your mates ability and attitude. If she is willing and wants to learn she will. If she gets a scare it may change her attitude.
I think the key is getting a good observer / trainer and then practice, practice

 

[Lepke]

I single hand an 83' boat with no thruster and usually with no deck hand.

 

[SteveK]

You do need to practice handling the boat, but there certainly are reasons to have thrusters. We put a stern thruster on our boat since my wife does the bow lines and I have to get down from the flybridge and handle the stern line. I found that I was rushing and trying to get past our dog that wants to always be first. It was a dangerous situation and sooner or later I was going to fall and either hurt myself or the dog. Put in a stern thruster with a wireless remote and now I can get down from the bridge carefully and then use the thruster to bring the stern back to the dock. As you get older and less spry and less strong thrusters can be invaluable to keep you boating. If you can’t muscle the boat to the dock then you will stop boating. However with thrusters you can keep boating longer into old age.

Dave, was your wife giggling a bit too much? Maybe the stern thrusters were holding the boat to the dock too.

 

[koliver]

New to this forum but experienced boater. Last boat was a Manta 43 sail cat that I had no trouble single-handing. Something about having engines 21 feet apart made dockside handling easy..


Now starting our trawler adventures. 1st mate will have limited ability to help handling lines, etc. I expect to have her at the helm using 2-way radio to work the engines at my 'suggestions' to make the approach.


Considering a boat with no thrusters. Lots more windage on this type of boat of course.



So is this a valid concern on my part or is it not that big of a deal to maneuver a twin screw boat (50-ish LOA) without the thrusters?


Best advice?

When mine was new to me, My spouse and I spent a few hours at a dock where we could do repeated approaches, from various angles, to see what worked and what didn't work.
We had to politely send the willing helpers on the dock away, did that a few times, telling them we needed to learn how to do it without any help.
Now, we have the steps down, rarely need a second approach, no thrusters.
One summer we had one engine down the whole season, so I learned to use prop walk to help and to avoid the other approach.
Coming from sail, once used to the twins you will love the improvement in docking maneuverability.

 

[mvweebles]

MPJ
On a twin engine boat a pro can do quite well in a fishing or commercial boat where hull bruises are acceptable. On a 50' nicely finished boat it is well worth the cost to have a bow thruster. Peace of mind, marital bliss, few boat scars and happy mooring mates in a tight slip are just a few of the advantages.

I've been at this for over 60 years. Our current boat, purchased new, was not equipped with a bow thruster. After four years one was installed. It was a very good decision for our boat and in our case.

I'm with RGANO in thumbs-up to this post. Have at least a bow thruster installed, hydraulic is strongly preferred. Thrusters are relatively affordable and some of the installation cost will be recovered at resale. I promise you will get more use out of your boat if you have thruster(s). There will be at least a few days per year that you will have reduced concern about afternoon winds and therefore will head-out instead of cancel plans. With the exception of over-confidence if a thruster dies, there is no scenario where having a thruster hinders a safe landing - it can only assist. Given the affordable cost of install and the high cost of fiberglass repairs, why wouldn't you install one?

I do not know a professional captain who declines to use a thruster if equipped. They may have a better Plan B if the thruster dies, but they will use every tool available to bring the boat in safely. Chest-thumping ego is checked at the dock.

Peter

 

[Arc]

Bigger is easier then small.

 

[rslifkin]

With twins and no thrusters, learn the pivot point of the boat. If it's pretty far forward, adding a bow thruster wouldn't be a bad idea. Every once in a while I wish for one on my boat. But as long as I can plan to avoid needing to move the bow sideways much, I get along just fine without it. I can spin the boat however I want and put the stern wherever I want, I'm just limited in sideways bow movement (mostly a problem when departing a face dock with the wind holding me on).


As Arc pointed out, boats get heavier faster than they gain windage when you go bigger. So bigger boats are less reactive to wind gusts and helm inputs, making them easier to control around the dock. You use the boat's momentum and provide inputs to adjust that momentum rather than forcing the boat to move a certain direction.

 

[markpj23]

... a very effective tool in docking and undocking is the use of spring lines...

Of course. My concern is with 5ft of freeboard I'll need a dock hand to help get a spring in place. I usually plan on no help at all and then consider it a bonus if help arrives. Makes sense to include calling ahead for dock hands in future plans when going to a new / strange berth.

...I also suggest it will be quicker and less stressful to train your “1st mate” in line handling than boat handling....

Agreed but there is a physical limitation that makes this impractical for our situation. As a former Navy deck officer I'm comfortable with giving "direct steering orders" as they say, but will of course need to make my 'helmsman' feel comfortable enough for this to work. Plus she'll have the 'big picture view' while I'm focused on lines, etc. Gonna have to think this through a bit... how many maritime accidents have been caused by losing the big picture because the responsible guy was occupied with some other task?

... As you get older and less spry and less strong thrusters can be invaluable to keep you boating. If you can’t muscle the boat to the dock then you will stop boating. However with thrusters you can keep boating longer into old age.

Amen to that - plus if it stops being enjoyable for one or both then what's the point?


Many thanks for the replies here. Lots to consider - I appreciate the varied points of view. That's of course why we're all here on the forums...

 

[CaptainSEA]

I have both bow and stern thrusters with twins on my Selene and I enjoy them very much...Any help, any tool is welcome when facing strong winds and currents as it just happened yesterday while docking with sudden wind gusts just on a critical moment...

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Well with thrusters means more maintenance. More $$$ for your boat guy. Then the gel-coat guy would be hurt too as he would not have any dings to fix if you had thruster.....

 

[ghost]

I’m of the same size and I can single hand my twin without thruster and pretty much put it where I want it in most weather. That’s because I started with a single screw inboard and learned wind/tide/humility. Then graduated to 28 twin with no keel, then 34 twin with a shallow keel. Also I ran a lot of dive trips with a live boat and had ample opportunity to play in strong currents. I also spent quite a few days, just practicing, and practicing at a time when many people thought I was already more capable than most. I’m always surprised at how many simply refuse to practice, because they don’t think they have the skills yet. Made no sense to me. Did you think it happened by accident, or just time on the water without searching out more challenging situations a little at a time?

So are most people capable of running a boat that size without a thruster. Yes, I think a very high percentage of the population is able to do so, assuming they put effort into it while not becoming dependent upon any one tool. Your favorite crutch will 100% backfire eventually if you become singly dependent on it.

So I get by pretty easy without a thruster. That said, more than a few days I would have wanted to have one. Right now I’m putting in another station at my stern. I voted that higher priority than a thruster, because being within arms reach of my stern line a single moment after putting the boat next to the dock was for me more important. I’m not saying that’s the right solution for everyone, just pointing out that there are more solutions to think about. Figure out what YOU need, not what everyone else thinks they need.

 

[rslifkin]

Of course. My concern is with 5ft of freeboard I'll need a dock hand to help get a spring in place. I usually plan on no help at all and then consider it a bonus if help arrives. Makes sense to include calling ahead for dock hands in future plans when going to a new / strange berth.

I generally plan the same. My lowest step-off points are about 4 feet above the water, but on the vast majority of docks, it's not a problem to position the boat so that someone can step off with an aft spring line in hand and get it on a cleat. Once that's on, I can pin the boat in place with the engines while we get the rest of the lines set.

 

[djones44]

I have found that having tight and positive controls help the most. I came off a 37' Canoe Cove with bang-on twins/shifts that made thrusters seem ridiculous.
But with my current, single 33' trawler I learned that docking from below offers less spongy controls than on the bridge, and quicker access to the dock. When my thruster takes its periodic leave - as it does - I have become completely comfortable with docking from the salon, with the short leash. Uses my generous little rudder like a sailboat.

 

[Slowmo]

I wouldn't be too worried about not having thrusters. The key is to practice with the boat. Every boat is different depending on weight, windage, etc. I'd say the biggest think to be aware of is that you've jumped quite a bit on the LOA, so likely the boat is much heavier, slower to respond etc. If you can find a place to practice safely that would help get used to the way she responds. I know a number of people who run boats in that size range with two people and no thrusters.

 

[Art]

I single hand an 83' boat with no thruster and usually with no deck hand.

Taking one look at your avatar... could not expect less!!

Twin screw boat is similar to full track tractor. But - Even Better!

With rudders left straight ahead... the props can not only be changed for thrust directions... they can also be individually altered for thrust power/speed. Low speed, close tolerance boat maneuverability is truly fun to play with.

As well, with twin rudders "somewhat" adjusted [obviously similarly] to one side or the other and props in one or another opposite thrust direction the boat can be moved sideways with thrust power adjustment on either prop's direction... for fine tuning!

What more can you ask for??

Well... I guess... some also ask for bow and/or stern thrusters. Not needed IMO!