50 year old man drowns in front of 14 year old son

[Alisske]

Sad story. Unfortunate event. The kicker of it was that the man could not swim and was not wearing a PDF.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/03/li-man-missing-after-falling-from-boat-while-fishing-with-son/

He had on of those “freedom” boat time shares. Just a damn shame all around.

I admit, I don’t wear my PDF except in bad conditions. (Not saying its right or justifying it). Just grew up one way, that does mot match the current standards.

Enjoy the fourth and be safe

A

 

[Comodave]

We wear an inflatable PFD anytime we are underway and getting underway. As we get older it is easier and more likely we could slip and fall overboard. Also when I was younger I could swim several miles fairly easily, now I don’t know about several hundred feet…

 

[Lou_tribal]

Sad story. Unfortunate event. The kicker of it was that the man could not swim and was not wearing a PDF.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/03/li-man-missing-after-falling-from-boat-while-fishing-with-son/

He had on of those “freedom” boat time shares. Just a damn shame all around.

I admit, I don’t wear my PDF except in bad conditions. (Not saying its right or justifying it). Just grew up one way, that does mot match the current standards.

Enjoy the fourth and be safe

A

Like a seat belt in a car or a helmet on a motorbike, a pfd is useful only if you wear it.
Most of people I meet don't wear it because of "I will look stupid", time to decide if you prefer how you look or your life.
Up here we have a lot of people every year ending in that situation, mostly on small vessels like fishing boats, kayak or paddle.
The ones I prefer are the ones in paddle with the pfd sitting at their feet.

L

 

[Art]

Legend has it: Many lobstermen of yore, who operated in cold Maine waters, purposefully never learned to swim. So that death was fairly swift if they fell overboard while alone aboard their boat.

 

[kthoennes]

I have never understood why anybody who works on boats or around water, recreationally or otherwise, wouldn't bother to learn how to swim. That makes utterly no sense to me. And I wouldn't have thought this prior to fatherhood, but even if I don't care about myself, I need to be able to potentially rescue my kid. It's a minimal almost trivial investment of time for a valuable lifelong skill.

 

[AlaskaProf]

I have never understood why anybody who works on boats or around water, recreationally or otherwise, wouldn't bother to learn how to swim.

My Dad spent WW II stateside, mostly instructing in gunnery/fire control, but for a couple cycles he was a CPO recruit company commander at the recruit depot, San Diego. Swimming instruction was mandatory, whole company marched off to the pool repeatedly. He was amazed at the evasions the recruits would go to avoid getting wet. Massive sick calls, etc.

 

[HTurner]

I have never understood why anybody who works on boats or around water, recreationally or otherwise, wouldn't bother to learn how to swim. That makes utterly no sense to me. And I wouldn't have thought this prior to fatherhood, but even if I don't care about myself, I need to be able to potentially rescue my kid. It's a minimal almost trivial investment of time for a valuable lifelong skill.

This is the primary question to ask... not the secondary one about PFDs.

 

[Comodave]

Swimming may not be enough. In colder water when you go in your natural response is to gasp, if your head is underwater when you gasp then you may well drown. But if you are wearing a PFD you will likely live.

 

[HTurner]

Swimming may not be enough. In colder water when you go in your natural response is to gasp, if your head is underwater when you gasp then you may well drown. But if you are wearing a PFD you will likely live.

Regardless, in this case, not knowing how to swim he would have drowned in 90 degree water. Not knowing how to swim, he would have drowned if the water was a few inches deeper that he was tall.


Yes, PFDs are important they are literally life savers/preservers.

 

[Benthic2]

a few other facts

The boat was a rental

The missing man was reaching for a fishing rod that fell overboard

The son called his mother, who then called 911

That kid is going to carry the burden of his father's death with him for the rest of his life. I feel so bad for him.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Not to blame anybody, just curious: Doesn't it seem strange that the kid didn't grab a boat hook to try to get his father? Or throw him something that floated? Sure, there could be lots of reasons, like the absence of a hook, the old man might have sunk like a rock, the kid might have been disabled, etc.

Maybe a takeaway is to be sure that guests and passengers have some idea of what to do before calling for help. Oh yeah, and wear the darn pfd if moving around in an open boat.

 

[CaptTom]

I'm conflicted on this. On the one hand, no doubt PFDs would save lives if worn on small open boats, or in rough weather, or alone on board.

But how many of you wear them regularly on a larger boat, where you're likely to be in the cabin or enclosed flybridge, or where there are railings all around? Note that passengers are not required to wear PFDs on ferries, harbor cruises and such, as long as there's a suitable railing.

Have you ever fallen out of a boat without a PFD? If so, how did you survive?

I agree we all need to promote PFD wear when warranted. I'm a little worried about trying to oversimplify the message to apply to anyone on any boat. It could be MOB drills would save more lives on our size boats than wearing PFDs all the time.

 

[rslifkin]

I'm conflicted on this. On the one hand, no doubt PFDs would save lives if worn on small open boats, or in rough weather, or alone on board.

But how many of you wear them regularly on a larger boat, where you're likely to be in the cabin or enclosed flybridge, or where there are railings all around? Note that passengers are not required to wear PFDs on ferries, harbor cruises and such, as long as there's a suitable railing.

Have you ever fallen out of a boat without a PFD? If so, how did you survive?

I agree we all need to promote PFD wear when warranted. I'm a little worried about trying to oversimplify the message to apply to anyone on any boat. It could be MOB drills would save more lives on our size boats than wearing PFDs all the time.

I rarely wear one at the helm, as it would be very hard to go over the side from there even in bad conditions. Ditto for people on the seats nearby. But if anyone needs to go out on the side decks underway and it's not calm, they get to wear one.

 

[Benthic2]

Doesn't it seem strange that the kid didn't grab a boat hook to try to get his father? Or throw him something that floated?.

I suspect the boat rental company will come under scrutiny for how informative their briefing was. Was there throwable flotation? Is it the boaters responsibility to know about it, or the rental companies job to tell the renter ? Is there liability for renting to a non boater if they are not experienced ?

The news footage of the searchers showed very calm clear conditions.

 

[Porgy]

How do we know the son didn’t try to do something. A boat hook isn’t a CG requirement but throwable flotation is. The throwable does little good if the victim isn’t conscious.

If the father was leaning over the gunnel trying to reach the fishing rod, it’s entirely plausible he slipped over the side and inhaled as his face hit the water and drowned almost instantly. You don’t need cold water for gasping reflex. That little twinge of panic as you lose your balance and go over the side will do it too.

I’ve read a number of times one of the most difficult to impossible things to do on a boat is lift an unconscious person from the water. Those rental boats likely don’t have throwable slings and certainly lack hoists or davits. If the father wasn’t conscious, it’s doubtful the son could render much assistance, IMO. Also, I’m watching the rental boats go in and out where I am and many I’ve seen have no VHF antenna, maybe a handheld but no fixed radio.

 

[Porgy]

From Freedom Boat Club FAQ:

“Freedom Boat Club is a major proponent of boater education and safety. Each and every one of our Clubs provide FREE training to our local members regarding the safe use and operation of your ‘home club’ fleet. This generally includes classroom and on-water training activities. Members must complete this training course before they can start reserving boats.“

 

[Alisske]

Yeah. Weather was calm (cloudy and rainy though)

Someone earlier mentioned lobsterman and someone mention bigger boats and should you wear PFDs.

When my family lobster fished, we never wore PFDs due to having 1200 of line and 8 attached lobster pots running around on deck at any given time (we set strings of 6-10 pots that had over 1000 foot of continuous line). Not to mention haulers, hooks etc…. Also not to mention the amount of filth on a PDF would be unbearable. (Trust me, i was the youngest, so i had clean traps and bait bags for 15 hours a day). The older folks got the nice jobs of hauling and cleaning out, measuring, and banding the lobster etc…. I worked the stern of the boat and clean out all the by catch and set a new bait bag. Not to mention flaking the line on deck, throwing the lead pot in the water and dancing around the deck avoiding pot lines while the other 7 were ripped off the gunwales, lol

We were concerned about safety, (I went in the water myself in northeast in March) the cold is what gets you. I was literally floating around stunned for 30 seconds. Folks were throwing lines to me, literally hitting me in the face, but I was to dazed to even grab it. Once I gained my senses, I swam to that boat and came out of the water like a penguin onto sheet ice. I know lost folks in my area that died in lobster boats we knew of were just dragged off the boat caught up with the pot lines. No PFD was gonna help with that. Folks would turn around and the person was no longer there. No noise, no yell, no bobbing head to look for, they were with the traps in the bottom

That being said, we did get the belt style inflatable ones (this was prior to the suspender type in the 80s and 90s). Everyone got them after a lobsterman drown. One guy fell over wearing one and he was flipped feet up due to poor design/donning. After that everyone took them off, lol.

In summary, the CG sets the standards are the “pros” and they seem to be wearing them full time.

 

[SteveK]

I was 14 once and fished with dad. Calling mother would be after the fact to break the news, not for help in calling for help.

But on the other hand if I fell in and could not get myself out, I will not hold my breath in those on board getting me out. We can all hope.

 

[Spinner]

It amazes me that skippers and crew don’t wear PFDs “except when they’re needed.” For example, if you’re at the helm but an emergency occurs that requires you at the bow? Are you going to remember to put on your PFD before you go forward? Maybe those who cruise in tropical waters can get away with it, but our perpetual frigid waters are unforgiving. It just seems so simple to put it on...

Someone likened it to wearing a seatbelt. Good analogy.

 

[Northern Spy]

My Dad spent WW II stateside, mostly instructing in gunnery/fire control, but for a couple cycles he was a CPO recruit company commander at the recruit depot, San Diego. Swimming instruction was mandatory, whole company marched off to the pool repeatedly. He was amazed at the evasions the recruits would go to avoid getting wet. Massive sick calls, etc.

I bet ten percent of my US Navy boot camp company at Great Lakes in 1985 tried to avoid the pool. Swimming lessons would be an exaggeration, it was floating lessons. Had to go off of a semi-high platform with a kapok on and turn your dungarees into a life jacket by tying knot in the legs.

 

[rslifkin]

It amazes me that skippers and crew don’t wear PFDs “except when they’re needed.” For example, if you’re at the helm but an emergency occurs that requires you at the bow? Are you going to remember to put on your PFD before you go forward? Maybe those who cruise in tropical waters can get away with it, but our perpetual frigid waters are unforgiving. It just seems so simple to put it on...

Someone likened it to wearing a seatbelt. Good analogy.

If I need to go forward in rough conditions, yes, I'll grab one and put it on. But unless it's calm, I do my best to avoid any need to go forward.

 

[SteveK]

It amazes me that skippers and crew don’t wear PFDs “except when they’re needed.” For example, if you’re at the helm but an emergency occurs that requires you at the bow? Are you going to remember to put on your PFD before you go forward? Maybe those who cruise in tropical waters can get away with it, but our perpetual frigid waters are unforgiving. It just seems so simple to put it on...

Someone likened it to wearing a seatbelt. Good analogy.

If I need to go forward in rough conditions, yes, I'll grab one and put it on. But unless it's calm, I do my best to avoid any need to go forward.

I would like to add in our northern waters a life jacket style PFD is for insurance purposes for body recovery to be able to certify death. Too gruesome?

The water temp is cold and you need to exit within 15 minutes.
Wearing a floater coat, cruiser suit, survival suit is too bulky and hot.
IMO, wearing a life jacket is a false sense of security.

 

[rslifkin]

I would like to add in our northern waters a life jacket style PFD is for insurance purposes for body recovery to be able to certify death. Too gruesome?

The water temp is cold and you need to exit within 15 minutes.
Wearing a floater coat, cruiser suit, survival suit is too bulky and hot.
IMO, wearing a life jacket is a false sense of security.

Early and late in the season here I've had the same thought. You have a pretty short time to get out or you're done. But during most of the season things aren't quite so dire around here.

 

[BandB]

A few random thoughts:

The magnitude of the tragedy. We have a very close friend who witnessed a drowning as a kid and won't get in or on a boat. This 14 year old will likely never get over it. I sure hope the entire family gets counseling.

The majority of drownings are not offshore and not in rough waters. We watch some of the Game Warden shows like Lone Star Law and North Woods Law. The Wardens ticket and warn over PFD's, especially on kayaks and canoes and small boats, but the one comment they make is how many rescues and recoveries they have to do and none of the victims are ever wearing PFD's. Think of it. PFD's can prevent nearly 100% of drownings on the water. You can argue inconvenience, no need, anything else you wish, but you can't dispute that.

I saw an episode recently of a missing fisherman. Very small boat and they figured out that he fell over the front while trying to release and pull up his trolling motor. Toppled forward, hit his head, PFD sitting in the boat.

I only remember one time wearing a life jacket under the age of 42. We were getting a boat out of the water in very rough conditions. I don't today on larger boats, but sure do on kayaks and on Ribs and in rough conditions. We've sure conditioned the kids to doing so and they'll do better than I did. I remember the old orange life jackets, so bulky and uncomfortable, but with the inflatables today, so many of the excuses have been removed.

Teaching everyone to swim is also very important, even if it might not save lives in situations like this, but it just may. To me it's a basic life skill just like potty training. There was a time that swimming and lessons were not easily accessible to many, but that's largely changed.

 

[rgano]

Maybe those who cruise in tropical waters can get away with it, but our perpetual frigid waters are unforgiving. It just seems so simple to put it on...

You guys boating in the PNW's frigid waters seem to be telling the rest of us you wear PFDs at all times underway. Is that so? How about at anchor?

 

[psneeld]

Everyone has their risk management plan in their heads.

A new boaters plan might be nothing more than put a jacket on when sinking. An experienced boater may have a couple different scenarios when they need to put a jacket on.

My favorite was when I was at an abandon ship drill on the icebreaker USCGC Glacier in Antarctica. I had swung by the helo and survival gear pile and dragged at least 100 pounds of gear to my station. I already had my survival suit on. Next to me was a first class cook, smoking a cigarette with only his short sleeve white shirt on, no jacket and his white cooks hat. I asked him why he didn't even have a life jacket on compared to all I drug along....his repliy with a nonchalant look was.... "all that stuff Lieutenant is just going to prolong your agony".

So think about your situation, but no, I don't subscribe to the underway demands wearing it all the time.

 

[SteveK]

You guys boating in the PNW's frigid waters seem to be telling the rest of us you wear PFDs at all times underway. Is that so? How about at anchor?

Rich, I do not recall saying you need to wear it. How about at anchor, well of course since you are now into the alcohol.

But I do recall CG saying that when they recover a male soul their fly is undone.

 

[psneeld]

Old wives tale about the fly...sure it probably happens but no real proof of how often....

Never on my watch or mission.....

 

[HTurner]

Rich, I do not recall saying you need to wear it. How about at anchor, well of course since you are now into the alcohol.

But I do recall CG saying that when they recover a male soul their fly is undone.

Then the case is made for non slip deck coatings.

 

[SteveK]

Old wives tale about the fly...sure it probably happens but no real proof of how often....

Never on my watch or mission.....

Old sailor tale, I get your drift.