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Old 02-15-2018, 04:11 PM   #41
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Yes, North Pacific does offer bilge keels. They are about $6k. They are of course passive stabilizers, about 8' long and 18" wide. They are attached to the hull in such a way as to not cause damage to the hull if they are damaged.

After the bilge keels were installed I noticed that the boat felt like a much heavier and bigger boat. Not that they are heavy, just by the way the boat reacted to the waves. Before I had them installed I could feel the hard chines resist beam seas. After installation I didn't feel the resistance, the boat just didn't seem to be bothered. In larger beam seas the boat would start to roll then would slowly come back and stop rolling. Then it would repeat that behavior periodically. Start to roll then stop and slowly come back. I would imagine that active stabilizers would not allow it to start a roll. The bilge keels also work at rest where most active systems don't unless you get in to big dollar systems from what I've heard.

The captain that took the boat up to Canada from Bellingham to have them installed is now going to put them on his NP42.

I highly recommend them!

Cheers,
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Old 02-15-2018, 04:32 PM   #42
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I had the pleasure of touring your boat at the Seattle Boat Show. Although we didnít meet I did meet Trevor and enjoyed all of the detail and work that went into yours. A highlight of the show for me. Congratulations!
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:34 PM   #43
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I had the pleasure of touring your boat at the Seattle Boat Show. Although we didnít meet I did meet Trevor and enjoyed all of the detail and work that went into yours. A highlight of the show for me. Congratulations!
Thanks, Trevor will love to hear that. I hope to meet you sometime.

Cheers!
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Old 02-15-2018, 06:57 PM   #44
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Great pictures.

Bilge keels (rolling chocks) are something that I want to install on my 43. I've heard good things from the owners that have installed them.

What dinghy chocks were installed on your boat deck for your rib and who did the installation?

I agree with a larger cockpit. I would like an additional foot. However, not enough to want a foot shorter saloon or a foot longer boat.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:33 PM   #45
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Great pictures.

Bilge keels (rolling chocks) are something that I want to install on my 43. I've heard good things from the owners that have installed them.

What dinghy chocks were installed on your boat deck for your rib and who did the installation?

I agree with a larger cockpit. I would like an additional foot. However, not enough to want a foot shorter saloon or a foot longer boat.
Dave Rasmussen installed soft chocks. Rolling chocks sound good to me. I haven't had a chance to move the tender off of the fly bridge. I'm anxious to try it out.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:03 PM   #46
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Thanks. Soft chocks are what I have been using but would like to move to something more robust.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:10 AM   #47
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Thanks. Soft chocks are what I have been using but would like to move to something more robust.
Please let me know what you get and how they work.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:46 AM   #48
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This may be of interest:

https://seagrant.uaf.edu/bookstore/b...ilge-keels.pdf
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:11 AM   #49
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In an earlier thread you had mentioned the boat getting stabilizers for the trips up and down the west coast. I have seen bilge keels on boats but didn't know much about them. I suppose the definition is open to interpretation, but I didn't think BK's were technically defined as stabilizers. Are there any other technical articles available that show roll rdxn?
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:39 AM   #50
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Congrats. Beautiful boat and build. Enjoy!
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:12 AM   #51
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In an earlier thread you had mentioned the boat getting stabilizers for the trips up and down the west coast. I have seen bilge keels on boats but didn't know much about them. I suppose the definition is open to interpretation, but I didn't think BK's were technically defined as stabilizers. Are there any other technical articles available that show roll rdxn?


The article that Newbie linked does a pretty good job describing everything that Iíve heard about them from folks in the PNW. They slow down roll, they donít stabilize the boat. Around here, slowing roll can make a big difference. We get a lot of steep, short wind waves. These can make a ride very uncomfortable because of the rapid roll they cause. Slow that roll down some and it decreases the amplitude a bit but makes the ride much more comfortable.

That at least is what boaters that have had them installed tell me. At this point, my thought is to have them installed when I need to do bottom paint anyway.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:12 PM   #52
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Iíve seen them referred to as passive stabilizers. Whatever they are I love em! No maintenance and they work at rest where most active stabilizers donít. What I noticed in a beam see the boat starts to roll then as the boat starts to right itís self the roll stops. It doesnít complete the roll to the other side, or minimizes it to the degree that it never completely rolls both ways. That behavior was observed in our trip from Bellingham to Seattle and back in 3 to 5í beam seas. The roll was reduced to the point that it was so slow as to not be an issue. That said, it still remains to be seen how she does in larger beam seas at different spacing. The thing that stood out was how the boat felt before and after the keels were installed. She felt like a much heavier boat. I had the keels installed hollow so the weight change was negligible but the way she responded to the water was what created the feel of weight. She felt like a bigger boat.

Thatís what I noticed in our run to the boat show and back. Whether they meet the definition of a passive stabilizer or not is a moot point for me cuz I got em and I like em! They are widely used in the fishing industry from what Iíve heard so whatever they are they apparently make life on the sea more comfortable.

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Old 02-17-2018, 03:26 PM   #53
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I was just curious because they are not widely used, at least on our recreational size boats. If they are working for you, then mission accomplished. The older I get, the less rolling I want to do so anything to reduce it is a good thing.
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Old 02-17-2018, 03:40 PM   #54
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Looks perfect for long distance cruising.
Maybe a SSB too?
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:17 PM   #55
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Great article! Thanks for posting this, NbNJ.

Here are some links to other TF threads with contributions from Tad Roberts regarding rolling chocks and bilge keels.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...y-21305-3.html

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...rs-3164-2.html

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Single vs Twin: It's Baaaaack!
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:18 PM   #56
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Hi Newbie,

Thanks for posting the link to the Bilge-Keels and Rolling Chocks article. I just finished reading it and it now makes sense to me why the Bilge-Keels are not considered stabilizers. Although it is probably convenient to call them Passive Stabilizers in relation to Active Stabilizers, they apparently do not stabilize the boat per the definition of making a hull more stable. Stable meaning seaworthy. I suppose reducing roll does not make a boat more seaworthy by reducing an uncomfortable characteristic. They (bilge-keels) just make the boat more comfortable. Where active stabilizers make a boat more seaworthy by "reacting" to forces that make a boat less seaworthy. But don't the Bilge-Keels do the same thing just to a less degree? Doesn't reducing roll make a boat more seaworthy to that degree?

Does that leave anyone else wondering the same thing or did I misunderstand the article?

I'd also like to point out that the article refers to the size of the Bilge-Keels and the type of hull that they are used on having a significant effect on the expediency of the system. The article states that Bilge-Keels of up to 18" wide are typically only installed on vessels that are 60' and longer. My Bilge-Keels are 18" wide and quite long maybe as long as the chine. My boat is 46' and has hard chines. The article talks about hulls with hard chines not working well with Bilge-Keels because of the turbulence that the chine creates interfering with the effectiveness of the Bilge-Keels. I believe that the fellow who builds and installs them up in Canada puts them right at the chine, (see picture). Maybe he does it because of this issue. I also had them installed hollow because the boat was sitting too low in the back. The Bilge-Keels raised the back of the boat about 3" and it's still a bit low! The Bilge-Keels can also be built solid if desired by the client.

So far they seem to work very well on my boat. They are likely sensitive to the location of placement so I would recommend using someone who specializes in installing them.

Looking at the picture I was concerned about the keel hitting the dock. After having them installed I can attest that they do not hit the dock even when tied tight to the dock. As long as fenders are used. I haven't tried tying to a dock without fenders nor do I intend to. We had a North Pacific 44 and 45 rafted together with fenders at the Seattle boat show and during high winds the Keels did bump. Adjusting the fenders took care of it for the rest of the show.

Someone asked about added drag and fuel consumption. Unfortunately I can't answer that question. The savings from not buying an active fin or gyro system was at least $40k. That's a lot of fuel. Maybe there is a naval architect out there that can give me the coefficient of drag per square foot? With that I suppose we could calculate the additional wetted surface area and figure it out from there? Then again maybe not.

I highly recommend the Bilge-Keels. I've only had them for about 220 miles of use but the difference in how the boat handled was significant. The captain that delivered the boat before and after Bilge-Keels was sufficiently impressed to want to put them on his boat. The difference in cost from a typical active fin system is about $40k. I was told that if I wasn't satisfied with the Bilge-Keels that I could add an active system with the Keels. So far I have no intention of doing that.

Good Luck!
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:09 PM   #57
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Hey Dave....thanks for letting me tramp through your boat TWO times during the Bremerton Trawlerfest boat show Friday. For your memory, I was the one who you spent time with up at the pilothouse showing me how accurate the FLIR system works (amazing we zoomed in on the yellow house way off in the distance) as well as the touch screen displays.

You boat is very, very nice with great attention to detail and the 45' would be perfectly acceptable to me.....that being said I'm meeting Trevor up at Orcas Island in a week or so to tour/sea trial a 49'er. To me the only area that I'm interested in is the increased size of the engine room and maybe see what the increased cockpit area looks like (interesting Trevor mentioned there was an option to increase the cockpit by up to 6' more even on the 45'....)

That being said, the increased cost of a 49' vs the 45' is significant and maybe if I stick with the 45' I can use the money I saved to take yoga and flexibility classes and maybe the engine room will be just fine for my 6'5" frame.....

Only negative is that the wait for a new boat is approaching 18 months.....BIG EEK

Enjoy your retirement and "new" boat....
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Old 05-06-2018, 09:06 AM   #58
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Welcome QualityTime. Both the 45 and the 49 are very nice boats. I think you would be happy with either. Trevor will take good care of you.
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Old 05-06-2018, 01:40 PM   #59
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Have you seen the Kadey Krogen 50 Open?

Krogen 50' Open - Kadey-Krogen Yachts, Inc. : Kadey-Krogen Yachts, Inc.

It has lots of room, and a stand up engine room (even for 6' 6' people)! If you get a single engine model, it has lots of room down both sides of the engine to work. Twin engines isn't that much spare room but still stand-up height. Twins have a lower draft than a single with a larger prop.

New boat builds take about a year from start to finish, and from what I was told at Palm Beach Boat Show, there is a twin engine build started, shaving 2+ months off the build time.

Wonder what the approximate cost difference between the NP45 and the KK50 would be? The KK50 is about $2.2m with hard top, full electronics, hydraulic stabilizers thrusters, and twin engines.
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Old 05-06-2018, 02:11 PM   #60
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Wonder what the approximate cost difference between the NP45 and the KK50 would be? The KK50 is about $2.2m with hard top, full electronics, hydraulic stabilizers thrusters, and twin engines.

Hm... just a guess here, but I think you could buy 2 1/2 NP45s for the cost of one KK50.

Iím sure someone who has been pricing a NP45 could give a ballpark.
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