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Old 10-27-2020, 08:18 PM   #41
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Blue water boats can go places that few crew can with their skills or strengths.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:20 PM   #42
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I think of Blue Water cruising as way they hell out there. Like Oceanic, or at least a few hundred miles out. Minimum. Lately I've seen some posts describing Bahama cruising as "Blue Water". Bahamas are 50 miles off Florida. Why is it considered Blue Water cruising?
So, got your answer?
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:23 PM   #43
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What trawlers are considered blue water boats? What features do they need?
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:35 PM   #44
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What trawlers are considered blue water boats? What features do they need?
In simple terms, they have all of the safety features in design, mechanics and equipment, have legs, and can take a pounding while remaining somewhat stable.

However, as mentioned, having a blue water crew can be just as important!

Sonas can make it to Bermuda and back easily with good weather planning (770nm) - but can the crew handle what we might meet?

Or even do we want to? 4 days with nothing to see but just moving water to an island where it will take just another 4 days to see. Cruising is supposed to be pleasureable!
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:57 PM   #45
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I am pretty sure the most common recreational vessel transiting the Panama Canal is not a trawler, and not a sailboat. But a sport fisher. In many ways, the antithesis of a trawler.

Powerboats crossing oceans? No doubt, motoryacht style boats in the 65+ foot range. Big enough to carry stores and spares, and having lux accommodations. Older versions of these are often sold for surprisingly affordable prices.

We can debate what constitutes a Blue Water boat until the cows come home. While we're sitting at dock doing so, many vessels that don't make the cut are easily doing Blue Water passages.

Need to broaden the definition and horizons. Many trawlers rarely get out of sight of land unless stricken in fog.

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Old 10-27-2020, 09:17 PM   #46
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Well said. I was 150 miles off the coast of Southern California in my blue water sailboat and we passed a guy in a 16 foot aluminum with an outboard...
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Old 10-27-2020, 11:43 PM   #47
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:04 AM   #48
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Regarding the Bahamas I’d say the “blue water. portion is the Gulf Stream. But it is such a short crossing from Florida that blue water skill described in this thread aren’t really required. Just a weather window. A fast boat will get to Bimini in 90 minutes. But if there is a Northerly or a tropical depression the G Steam can act up, I crossed once on the tail end of a tropical depression with 5 foot chop on top of 20 foot swells. But the weather was off the stern quarter so it was a safe but thrilling ride in my 25 foot deep vee dive boat. The Donzi company once delivered 5 Sweet Sixteen 16 foot boats from Miami to. Nassau on their own bottom.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:59 AM   #49
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Well said. I was 150 miles off the coast of Southern California in my blue water sailboat and we passed a guy in a 16 foot aluminum with an outboard...
that's insane.
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Old 10-28-2020, 06:29 AM   #50
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I've had my butt kicked crossing the Gulf Stream to the Bahamas a lot harder than on some "real bluewater passages" I've been on.
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Old 10-28-2020, 06:26 PM   #51
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Yep, the reason is speed.

In fact I would argue that speed is the anthesis of safety.
Menzies, with all due respect, (and I'm not just trying to be cunning - maybe a bit pedantic )you used the wrong word. I think you meant antithesis, and in fact that means the opposite to...I think you meant analogous = similar to or effectively same as...eg speed analogous to safety (at sea)..?

https://www.bing.com/search?q=meanin...APMCS1&PC=APMC

https://www.bing.com/search?q=meanin...APMCS1&PC=APMC
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Old 10-28-2020, 07:12 PM   #52
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No, I meant that speed is the enemy of safety.
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Old 10-28-2020, 07:49 PM   #53
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No, I meant that speed is the enemy of safety.
Why do you say this?
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Old 10-28-2020, 08:02 PM   #54
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No, I meant that speed is the enemy of safety.
Improper use of speed goes against safety, but I'd say having it available gives more options, which means more safety.
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Old 10-28-2020, 08:28 PM   #55
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Why do you say this?
On a base level, when you have to make a decision, doing so at speed is a higher risk due the reduced time from decision to consequence of that decision.
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Old 10-28-2020, 08:57 PM   #56
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On a base level, when you have to make a decision, doing so at speed is a higher risk due the reduced time from decision to consequence of that decision.
And doing it slowly is a higher risk due to the fact you may respond too late to avoid the consequence.
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Old 10-28-2020, 08:59 PM   #57
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And doing it slowly is a higher risk due to the fact you may respond too late to avoid the consequence.
We are talking about the boat speed while you are making the decision, not the speed at which you make the decision.
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Old 10-28-2020, 09:11 PM   #58
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We are talking about the boat speed while you are making the decision, not the speed at which you make the decision.
Speed sure helps in implementing the decision.
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Old 10-28-2020, 09:14 PM   #59
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No, I meant that speed is the enemy of safety.
Ok, then that's fine, but you still used the wrong word - you meant antithesis, not anthesis...see the links, post#51. No biggie - just sayin'...

Personally I think both concepts are right. Speed certainly helps when considering the actual time to make a passage, or when wanting to avoid a bad weather event, and going slow makes sense where the possibility of hitting something or taking just too much water over the deck is an issue.
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Old 10-29-2020, 01:18 AM   #60
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Speed sure helps in implementing the decision.
Isn't the argument supposed to be about the inherent capability of a given boat design to handle extreme conditions? My question wold be if a full keel is slower and inherently less safe, why would there be a market for them? Because the operator gets a longer reaction time? That doesn't sould like a compelling sales pitch.
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