Anyone apprehensive about taking a single screw trawler to Alaska in the IP?

[tadhana]

Pertinent information just published by "Following Seas" Bill Palatore. https://www.followingseas.media/blog/2018/1/7/seasoned-experience-speaks

 

[psneeld]

Just an opinion.... no dragging boat has twins? In his limited experience.

While much of what was written makes sense, a lot doesnt from my 40 plus years rescuing people in boats.

You can run a fishing boat for 20 years and never need a tow or have an emergency. For a rescue guy, 20 years involves hundreds to thousands of rescues dealing with all kinds of boats and problems.

Absolutely there is no righr answer, but rest assured if stuck where you dont want to be in a single can have far reaching consequences...my worry every day cruising 3000 miles a year in populated places, let alone remote places revolves more around the checkbook than safety.

 

[JDCAVE]

Just an opinion.... no dragging boat has twins? In his limited experience.

Absolutely there is no righr answer, but rest assured if stuck where you dont want to be in a single can have far reaching consequences...my worry every day cruising 3000 miles a year in populated places, let alone remote places revolves more around the checkbook than safety.

I don't think his experience is all that limited, but then again by definition, everyone's experience is limited to their own experience! I chartered numerous commercial fishing vessels for perhaps 100,000 of hours of fishing activities sometimes 30 nm offshore. Breakdowns were very rare (I can only recall one offhand and it was a twin engined gillnetter) and in no cases life threatening.

In my view the OP should not hesitate to take his vessel north to AK, provided it's in good repair and his seamanship skills are up to the challenge.

Jim

 

[tadhana]

You can run a fishing boat for 20 years and never need a tow or have an emergency. For a rescue guy, 20 years involves hundreds to thousands of rescues dealing with all kinds of boats and problems.

Actually I think he said he fished 45 years.

"I was a commercial fisherman for over 45 years. I have fished in both the South Pacific and North Pacific for 20 years. We made trips for up to 60 days at a time, fishing all the way across from Japan to the coast of the U.S. In the South Pacific we worked all the way from South America to New Zealand. I also put 20-something years dragging bottom fish, and we worked up the North American West Coast, across the Gulf of Alaska into the Bering Sea. Before I retired, I fished 12 months of the year around the clock."

To my read, that is a heck of a lot of hours and a hell of lot of miles in a single screw vessel. Where I'm from, in New England, all the work boats are single screw including the Grand Banks draggers. This seem to me to endorse and support his contention.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Anyone afraid to venture on a single-engine boat dare not fly on a single-engine plane. Having done both, I'm more comforted on the boat.

Mark,
Aircraft are far better maintained than boats. No comparison IMO.

But I’m sure your’e absolutely correct about sail boats being slack on engine maint.

 

[AusCan]

You should be apprehensive with a single doing the inside passage; You should also also be apprehensive with twins.

Our cruising grounds around here are similar in their remoteness, except with no towing services, and I get apprehensive when planning any long trip. This makes me ensure my gear is in good condition. It makes me stock the spare parts and tools I need. It makes me gain the knowledge I need to the faultfinding and repairs to stay mobile.

There will be things that break on any long journey. Being prepared increases the odds of it being a successful journey despite the breakdowns.

 

[Nomad Willy]

When I flew UL aircraft most all were singles. And engine failure was very much on our minds. The justification I had for flying was that 99% of the time I flew where there was a relatively safe place to land. When I flew to islands I climbed to an altitude that insured my safe glide to the nearest shore. Never did land on a beach though.

If I adopted a similar protocall to trawlering there are many places I would not go. My engine threatened to quit (went to an idle out in front of the rocks at Cape Caution. Big pucker factor? No bigger than that. After idling along at 900rpm it slowly ramped up to the normal 2300. That got my attention. Anchored in Allison Harbour and spent many hours looking for trouble and changed both fuel filters.

Next day no problems. Got through Seymour Narrows but 3hrs out of Comox the dang thing actually quit. Abeam to 2’ seas rolling very uncomfortably. Tried to get her going for about 2 hrs but no go. Hailed a passing boat and the VERY nice people towed us all the way back to Comox. Spent several days working over the fuel system. Musta done someth’in right as we got all the way home (LaConner Wa).

Am I aprehensive? Of course. Do I prefer twins. Of course. I firmly belive twins are a better mousetrap but as many point out there are many single engine boats. And there are lots of twin engine boats. The twins all cost more and most all those people declared w their checkbook that they thought twins were better.

But for my single I may look into an OB mount to attach to the stern. I want the kind that slides up and down on a slotted pipe. With this kind the OB is way up out of sea water and dosn’t need to be tilted or rotated vertical as it’s vertical all the time. Been a long time since I’ve seen one. Does anybody know where such a mount is?

 

[psneeld]

google twin screw comnercial dragger....

I got tired of reading through how many there are for sale....

again, I run a single engine trawler, and often single engine comnercial vessels.

my fear isnt breaking down, its having to wait somelplace I dont want to or cant afford.

if that doesnt bother you...then go simple as they say....

 

[North Baltic sea]

I'd like to hear from the twin engine proponents. How many of you have needed the mechanical security of twins? That is, how many of you have had to 'get home' on one engine due to mechanical failure of the other engine or transmission?

Not belts and hoses. Not fuel problems. Not prop, shaft or rudder damage due to striking something. I'm interested solely in breakdowns due to mechanical problems.

And would the break downs have been repairable at sea? Provided you had the spares, tools and skills.

Many have made the point that maintenance, preparation and seamanship are more important than the number of engines. I agree with that but I want to hear from those who got home because they had more than one engine.

Hi,

My earlier boat twins, the diesel worked, but sten drives the cone switch was no longer working. I do not think I think twins better than singles. And when the twin lose the second is that single

I have read the second single from NT's Adventures in Alaska for several years, an honest site also problems
https://arachnoid.com/index.html


NBs

 

[darkside]

A number here have quoted their years experience in single screw fishing boats and that is great information. But usually that is on slow revving mechanical injection engines.
Increasingly in modern cruisers there is another weak point to consider and that is the engine management computer. The failure of low hour common rail engines due to electrics is now a fairly regular occurrence.
Last week my friends low hours Cat C7 stopped while maneuvering close to an offshore island. Quick anchoring (in 120') averted disaster. We turned up soon after and towed him eleven hours back to port.
The technician says it happens a bit with the Caterpillars.
I have also had an FNM fail the same way, but I had twins at the time.
I would be much happier with a mechanical injection engine if I had a single.

 

[Fletcher500]

Dark, I know mechanical injection and the older diesels are proven, and fairly bullet proof but I don't agree that the new computer controlled engines are more prone to failure. Common rail and the associated electronics have been around quite awhile now, and I rarely if ever hear about the concerns you are noting. Granted, stuff happens, but these new common rail engines are proven workhorses.

Now pods, especially the first gen up to around 2013 or so are a different animal and these did have computer related issues causing the loss of propulsion but that is a subject not related to trawlers. How do I know..first hand experience and talking to other owners.

 

[Conrad]

I suggest you read Alaska Blues by Joe Upton, a highly readable account by a fisherman who makes the roundtrip each year in an old wooden boat no bigger than yours.

He does this in company with another boat, something you might want to consider. (I'm leaving about May 15th.)
...and, yes, I have done it before.

A very good read indeed.

 

[koliver]

I'd like to hear from the twin engine proponents. How many of you have needed the mechanical security of twins? That is, how many of you have had to 'get home' on one engine due to mechanical failure of the other engine or transmission?

Not belts and hoses. Not fuel problems. Not prop, shaft or rudder damage due to striking something. I'm interested solely in breakdowns due to mechanical problems.

And would the break downs have been repairable at sea? Provided you had the spares, tools and skills.

Many have made the point that maintenance, preparation and seamanship are more important than the number of engines. I agree with that but I want to hear from those who got home because they had more than one engine.

Yes, I am a proponent of twins over single power. This is not due to many engine failures, though I have had my share. I have never lost a vacation due to a mechanical failure, though I know several single owners who have spent the greater portion of theirs in a shipyard, far from home.

To specifically respond to PBs post

1 Lost a starter a day from home, at Lasqueti Island. Due to strong headwinds, headed to Secret Cove instead of home to Vancouver, took the dead started home on the ferry, returned the following weekend with it rebuilt.

2 Lost an oil cooler at Sarah Point (Desolation Sound) at the beginning of vacation. The low oil pressure horn was the first indication of a problem. a hole, 1/4" diameter, had opened through the aluminum case, allowing a stream of oil to drain into the pan beneath the engine. Once I found where it was going, I put a bucket to catch the stream and used that engine only when needed for docking. Returning the oil to the engine worked well until I returned home 3 weeks later. Got the oil cooler repaired and it still holds on.

3 On checking the oil, discovered a milkshake in the sump. Took it in on the other engine, got the source of the water identified (raw water pump) and repaired, several oil changes to see if the engine would still run, and set out again on both, only to have that one bend a valve in mid Georgia Straight, and require a full rebuild. I was able to postpone that repair from June to September, so as to save my summer vacation, which was then done at 6.5 knots on one engine instead of at 8 knots on two.

Added benefit, I learned to dock in current and wind on the Starboard engine only (no thrusters).

 

[AusCan]

I maintain mine as well as you can....15,000 miles before it standed me with a broken dampner plate

As I said, any one can fail at any time beyond the abilities or parts carried onboard.

Therefore, as long as the inconvenience of breaking down where you dont want to be and the costs involved dont bother you, no big deal.

It's not quite as simple as that when cruising in isolated areas where there is no towing service, few safe harbors, and very little boat traffic.

It can be more than an inconvenience when you have no form of propulsion and the wind is pushing you towards breaking surf on the rocks.

 

[markpierce]

With all the cruise ships and ferries, isn't it practical to communicate with them to forward a "help" request to an entity that could provide help?

 

[koliver]

With all the cruise ships and ferries, isn't it practical to communicate with them to forward a "help" request to an entity that could provide help?

Mark
That is exactly what happens when there is a vessel near the site of another vessel in trouble. This thread isn't about what happens when a potential rescuer is nearby, rather is about your self reliance when in an area of danger, with no help at hand.

My experience with RCMSAR (active crew of unit 25, Saltspring Island) shows me that vessels of opportunity. including ferries and cruise ships, are often first on scene, and always communicate with JRCC (Rescue coordination) who then task the most appropriate available resources to the rescue.
Those resources are spread very thinly once you travel beyond the highly populated areas. In the Gulf Islands we have RCMSAR and Coast Guard vessels with a response time average of around 1/2 hour, plus many vessels of opportunity. On the Central Coast, not so good, as the distance between assets can be from few to many hours.

 

[alfamike]

Single back up Outboard

Benthic2 --- to answer your question.


20 HP.

5.0 knots

KK42

 

[Wxx3]

Anyone afraid to venture on a single-engine boat dare not fly on a single-engine plane. Having done both, I'm more comforted on the boat.

I'd add that you also shouldn't do any trans-Atlantic or Pacific flights with two engine ETOPS aircraft

 

[Benthic2]

AlfaMike...Thanks !!

 

[drb1025]

Neither of my twins nor the generator quit on my round trip to Alaska. If your engine is well maintained you should be fine. Of course I carried plenty of spare parts which ensured nothing would fail.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Single and twin screws do IP to Alaska all the time right Crusty???

 

[Gbinterim]

We have had our single engine vessel in Southeast Alaska for the past 20 years. We travel all over Southeast putting on average 300 hours each summer. I’m religious about oil and fuel filter changes as well as oil changes. I believe with preventative maintenance and spares aboard you should be just fine. If you are in need of a mechanic one can be found in the cities and towns along the way. As in a previous post the majority of boats in Southeast Alaska are singles.