Looking for Charter Company in NC or SC to Cruise the ICW

[Johnny]

I am visiting family and friends in Charlotte and would like to tie in a charter for a week in Aug to cruise a bit of the ICW. I live in the San Francisco Bay area and charter there and in the PNW. Finding a bareboat charter company in coastal NC and SC seems to be a bit challenging. I am looking for a trawler type boat in the 37 to 45 foot range. Any help is appreciated.

 

[caltexflanc]

Have you called these guys? I last saw this boat out and about a year ago, looked good.

Charters

 

[Johnny]

Thanks and that is the only bareboat company I could find on-line. I am surprised there are not more.

 

[Heron]

Have you called these guys? I last saw this boat out and about a year ago, looked good.

Charters

Sonny...That's the guy I bought my Cape Dory from...

 

[Tom.B]

Thanks and that is the only bareboat company I could find on-line. I am surprised there are not more.

As pleasure boating destinations, NC probably wouldn't even make the cut. Things (coastal towns) are kinda spread out and not all coastal towns open their arms widely to cruising boaters. From a charter point-of-view, it's way more of a fishing destination. I have lived here my whole life, people that want to boat here, own a boat I mean, we don't have many full-time yachtmen/cruisers in NC. No huge numbers of marinas, and none really bigger than a couple-hundred slips. The weather is average compared to destinations like Florida, and like I said, not a ton of places to visit in, saaaayyyyy, a week of boat rental. Places like Beaufort/Morehead City, Southport, Manteo/Coinjock, and Wrightsville Beach and just stops as cruisers pass through headed north or south.

And TBH, I kinda like it that way. But that said, if NC grew to a larger cruising state, it would likely spawn a host of improved boating service companies. It's hard to find a really good one now, no matter the need. The Eastern NC good-old-boy-network and slow pace of life there makes it hard to find a business that returns calls, keeps appointments and schedules, answers emails (if they have it at all), returns voice mail calls... And in general, provides a good product at a good price. There are a few... bit not many.

That boat George linked to is Sonny's boat in Oriental. He rents it now and then. But I never saw it on the Neuse but once in five years. Some parents like to use it to deliver their kids to Camp Seagull, but that's the only time we saw it underway. It's docked at Oriental Harbor Marina. Right by the bridge.

I know there are a few NC folks here now (and more than one in Oriental) plus George in Morehead... I would be interested in your take. Am I right or wrong about NC? Sure WE know it's a good place to boat, but why is it not a big destination for charter companies? Curious.

 

[caltexflanc]

I think you are generally, but not totally wrong. I believe there are fewer charters here, compared to destinations like the San Juan and Gulf Islands, or SW Florida primarily because we do not have a lot of population and big cities right nearby (for instance Seattle/Vancouver and Tampa/St.Pete/Sarasota/Ft. Myers) which provide a strong base of locals who have figured out that for occasional vacation boating, chartering makes much more sense than owning. The weather point is well taken, we are not a place with any one strong comparative season to attract vacationers from hotter or colder climes. (really the one reason the Virgin Islands are popular).

I disagree about destinations and vehemently disagree about the waterfront towns not being hospitable to cruisers... please name one, because quite the opposite is true! You have a wonderful variety of charming towns to visit, many with free docks or anchorages and lots of amenities. Elizabeth City, Edenton, (even little Columbia and Bellehaven!), Manteo and the adjacent OBX, fabulous Ocracoke, Oriental, New Bern, Beaufort/MHC, Swansboro, Wrightsville beach, Wilmington, Bald Head Island, and Southport.

Then there are beautiful, quiet anchorages in the many creeks, or South River. And of course the queen of all, Cape Lookout, in my opinion the greatest "wilderness" anchorage in the United States (I'm pretty sure I've seen all the contenders) with virtually unlimited undeveloped beaches to comb and enjoy the crystal clear water. Throw in the adjacent Shackleford Banks too.

I also disagree with your comment about services. My experience is quite the opposite there too. There is a reason people bring their boats from all over the eastern seaboard to be worked on here. I guess you just fell into the wrong crowd.

 

[DavidM]

I think that George defended the state that I have lived in for the last 4-5 years very nicely.

Here is a week long cruising itinerary, where you will be tied up most nights at a free town dock.

Start at Oriental which is where I live which has two free town docks, then

Stop at the state free dock and mini park in Bath. Bath is small but charming.

Pass through the Alligator/Pungo canal and anchor off of the N or S shore of the Alligator R depending on the weather. This is the only anchorage and if you want to be tied to land, stop at Dowry Creek Marina in Bellingham. There is supposed to be a new, free dock at Bellingham proper, but I haven't stayed there.

The next couple of nights stay at Edenton at the town dock where the first two nights are free. Make sure you go through the old courthouse a block from the marina. Borrow the dockmaster's car for provisioning or whatever.


Then head east to the small but cute town of Manteo and tie up at the free town dock.

Ocracoke is the last stop for a day or two. Either anchor out in Silver Lake or tie up at the nominally priced NPS dock. You can rent some bikes and head to the beach for the day, sip beers and have a burger at SMacnally's or Howard's Pub and have dinner at a really nice restaurant, the Back Porch or Diagio's. On weekend nights, boogy at Diagio's, SMacnally's or the Jolly Roger all within an easy walk from the NPS docks.


You say NC doesn't welcome boaters? Why are there 5 free or almost free (NPS) docks on this itinerary. And I haven't mentioned Washington or Elizabeth City- my favorite boater friendly town.


David

 

[Tom.B]

I agree that it could have more to do with the lack of high population areas like Florida. I didn't think of that. Thanks.

Don't get me wrong AT ALL... I LOVE IT HERE, but it's a quiet part of the state with some sleepy towns that don't invest very much into attracting cruisers because a free town dock isn't everything you need. There are certainly some amazing places (Oriental, Ocracoke. Lookout, Bald Head) here. I was just saying that, as a charter destination, you would really struggle. Because in order to do David's route, you would need divine intervention with a weather window (unless you have George's super Hatteras).

 

[caltexflanc]

I think that George defended the state that I have lived in for the last 4-5 years very nicely.

Here is a week long cruising itinerary, where you will be tied up most nights at a free town dock.

Start at Oriental which is where I live which has two free town docks, then

Stop at the state free dock and mini park in Bath. Bath is small but charming.

Pass through the Alligator/Pungo canal and anchor off of the N or S shore of the Alligator R depending on the weather. This is the only anchorage and if you want to be tied to land, stop at Dowry Creek Marina in Bellingham. There is supposed to be a new, free dock at Bellingham proper, but I haven't stayed there.

The next couple of nights stay at Edenton at the town dock where the first two nights are free. Make sure you go through the old courthouse a block from the marina. Borrow the dockmaster's car for provisioning or whatever.


Then head east to the small but cute town of Manteo and tie up at the free town dock.

Ocracoke is the last stop for a day or two. Either anchor out in Silver Lake or tie up at the nominally priced NPS dock. You can rent some bikes and head to the beach for the day, sip beers and have a burger at SMacnally's or Howard's Pub and have dinner at a really nice restaurant, the Back Porch or Diagio's. On weekend nights, boogy at Diagio's, SMacnally's or the Jolly Roger all within an easy walk from the NPS docks.


You say NC doesn't welcome boaters? Why are there 5 free or almost free (NPS) docks on this itinerary. And I haven't mentioned Washington or Elizabeth City- my favorite boater friendly town.


David

David, some good stuff there. Nice catch on Bath and Washington though I didn't intend to provide a comprehensive guide. However, it's Belhaven, not Bellingham; you're off about 3,000 miles. We anchored out there quite happily and used the little dinghy harbor. Given the choice we like anchoring vs docks, free or not.

But back to the OP, while it's a wonderful cruising area (and it always amazes me the number of loopers and snow birds who treat it as a "boat through" state), I understand the paucity of charters. What's more amazing to me is the paucity on the Chesapeake, but again, it must be the weather thing.

 

[Heron]

David, some good stuff there. Nice catch on Bath and Washington though I didn't intend to provide a comprehensive guide. However, it's Belhaven, not Bellingham; you're off about 3,000 miles.
But back to the OP, while it's a wonderful cruising area (and it always amazes me the number of loopers and snow birds who treat it as a "boat through" state), I understand the paucity of charters. What's more amazing to me is the paucity on the Chesapeake, but again, it must be the weather thing.

Yup...Being based out of Washington NC I'd agree...Some beautiful cruising. And we've met some very nice folks traveling both north and south on the ICW that have taken the time to cruise up the Pamlico to Washington for a day or a month layover. Washington has been very active in recruiting boaters and hosting many waterfront events throughout the year. It's a great town for cruisers these days with a nice downtown and many excellent restaurants all within blocks of the waterfront.. My wife and I do love the Chesapeake though and can be there in 3 days from where we are. NC is central to a LOT of good cruising...

 

[psneeld]

I give NC 2 thumbs up to for cruising.


Much of it is like the Chesapeake with plenty of creeks and coves, well protected, safe from vicious tidal currents behind the outer banks.


The outdoor enthusiasts speak well of all the hunting and fishing...unfortunately I haven't had a chance to stop long enough to enjoy.


The whole state seems to be boater friendly in my experience...everyplace I go there seems to be either free or reasonable dockage with friendly, helpful people.


Maybe because it is still relatively rural that supports the enchantment.... unfortunately that may preclude great rental fleets.

 

[DavidM]

You know, George I looked at what I typed 2 or 3 times and it didn't look right. I thought I had misspelled it. But as you note I was 3,000 miles off ;-).


























If you add up all of the population in the five towns I mentioned in my suggested itinerary, you probably won't pass 20,000, which is why there are no charter companies in NC.

 

[BandB]

I won't pour it on as others have hit it already, but I felt you were totally off target TomB. For relatively small towns, Beaufort/Morehead City and Wilmington have incredible services for boaters. Jarrett Bay and Bennett Brothers can handle boats of a size that going south you have to reach South Florida before finding more boatyards that can. As to charters, I'd say more fishing charters per capita than any area. NC certainly has more boating activity and places to go than SC or GA and I love to boat in both of them. There are so many attractive stops along the NC coast. And to say "coastal towns open their arms widely to cruising boaters" actually shocked me. Have you encountered a NC coastal town that wasn't welcoming? I sure haven't.

 

[Besslb]

I think many of you misunderstood Tom's point that we have fabulous cruising here, but not the number or size of marinas or services on the scale of Florida for example, who has tons of charter companies. We have cruised NC extensively and will again. Don't think for a minute that we don't love our state and our beautiful coastal waters.

 

[BandB]

I think many of you misunderstood Tom's point that we have fabulous cruising here, but not the number or size of marinas or services on the scale of Florida for example, who has tons of charter companies.

Well, neither does any other state, so I don't really think one can measure on that basis.

Here was the statement I had the most difficulty with: "As pleasure boating destinations, NC probably wouldn't even make the cut." I think it's an incredible pleasure boat destination and certainly makes my cut.

It doesn't have tons of charter companies but few states do. It has shipyards few states can match. It has fishing charters, few can match. It has incredible scenery and inlets and sounds and rivers to explore.

His question that I admit to glossing over was "why is it not a big destination for charter companies?" Perhaps better to say why Florida is. Year round ability to charter. A major tourist destination. Major retirement state. There are no other states on the East Coast or Gulf of Mexico that I'm aware of with many charter companies. Most don't have any major ones. Maybe a boat here or there. The business of charter companies as in companies that own boats and charter them is very difficult, even in Florida. The pattern seems to be that when the owners of those companies die, so do the companies. Now, the business of chartering as in offering the boats of individual owners for charter is very different.

I guess it's all relative. Compare the marinas and services in NC to FL and it will lose but even that doesn't mean it's not as pleasurable a destination. Compare marinas and services in NC to Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Delaware, New Jersey, Maine and it comes out ahead.

 

[Tom.B]

Let me clear about this... What I feel is that a town slapping in a town dock with no water or electric and charging for it (like Swansboro, Belhaven) in hopes you will spend money there doesn't constitute a huge welcome sign. In addition, private paid docks with facilities from the 1970's are hardly inviting either (Beaufort)... No matter how amazing the people are (and almost all were amazing). When I say town, I am primarily meaning the municipality. That is ALL I am referring to. Y'all seem to think I said every town sucked... I didn't.

(BTW... We were robbed while we slept if one of your stellar townships. One where the city provided security for and then announced the operational hours of it... Guess when we got hit? 15 minutes after the patrol ended. I am still a little bitter about it.)

We all have different opinions and expectations. So don't read too much into it. We didn't hate any of the towns we stopped at during our years, but some were better than others. But if you want a list of places we didn't like... Snead's Ferry, Carolina Beach, Wilmington, Belhaven (barely makes the list), Topsail. Granted, some are trying to improve, but I have trouble with a place like Beaufort (a place we love to visit) having the highest per foot price, still holding onto the worst bathroom facilities I can remember short of Swan Point.

Here was the statement I had the most difficulty with: "As pleasure boating destinations, NC probably wouldn't even make the cut." I think it's an incredible pleasure boat destination and certainly makes my cut.

Fair enough, perhaps poorly worded, but if people were flying in from all over the US and wanted to charter boats, wouldn't there be more than just one trawler in the whole state you could charter? That was the topic, wasn't it? So currently, nobody is flying in to boat here, therefore, how could it possibly make any list for great boating destinations. Unless, of course, you come here with a boat. Then you're all set!

 

[psneeld]

What I find incredible is that a place like Belhaven that looks like it has a $25/year town tax base, not only built one public dock, but a second free one. I do understand that dosn't make a boating friendly town...


Then...Oriental going out of its was for a long time to put up with boaters that sooner or later that outstayed their welcome for various reasons....Again...could just have been lack of action more than compassion...


But I come from a state where there are virtually no town docks that I know of, no dingy docks near me if any, few ramps and those are often town owned and expensive..etc...etc.


NJ is very seasonal and boating overcrowded for 3 months and a few out of season weekends. Underutilized by the locals. So I understand that rental companies usually aren't more than skiffs and the occasional ski type boat.


My experiences going through North Carolina show that it too seems a bit seasonal with not much boating activity from December through April. Maybe too short of a season there to support much in the way of larger rentals also.


While all boating towns seem to have a local or two that can make you feel welcome and help....maybe I find towns on the water that know their roots and celebrate them by keeping an eye to the water and its occupants warm a soft spot in my heart.


I don't get those feelings in NJ hardly at all....but each ....year my 1000 mile trip to Florida starts with a stop at Chesapeake City at their free dock and beautiful waterfront Seasonal decorations.

 

[caltexflanc]

Compare marinas and services in NC to Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Delaware, New Jersey, Maine and it comes out ahead.

OK, I am a big NC boating fun booster, but I have to disagree there. Savannah alone belies your statement about Georgia, as well as the statement you have to go to Florida to match the boatyard services. (see: Thunderbolt Marine and Hinckley, to name two). South Carolina: Myrtle Beach, Georgetown, and Charleston meet or exceed what we have to offer here. [As far as gunkholing type cruising, Georgia and SC are wonderful if you venture off the magenta line.] I'm not sure what your criteria is exactly, but I also scratch my head at New Jersey and Maine being on the marinas and services list (have you ever cruised either?) other than the more limited season.

As for Tom's comments about Beaufort, the town marina is all about the location; you can always anchor off (Taylors Creek or Town creek) if the price is too steep, or go to the first class Morehead City Yachtbasin and use the courtesy car; or the very friendly Portside marina, or MHC town docks in MHC.

 

[BandB]

OK, I am a big NC boating fun booster, but I have to disagree there. Savannah alone belies your statement about Georgia, as well as the statement you have to go to Florida to match the boatyard services. (see: Thunderbolt Marine and Hinckley, to name two). South Carolina: Myrtle Beach, Georgetown, and Charleston meet or exceed what we have to offer here. [As far as gunkholing type cruising, Georgia and SC are wonderful if you venture off the magenta line.] I'm not sure what your criteria is exactly, but I also scratch my head at New Jersey and Maine being on the marinas and services list (have you ever cruised either?) other than the more limited season.

As for Tom's comments about Beaufort, the town marina is all about the location; you can always anchor off (Taylors Creek or Town creek) if the price is too steep, or go to the first class Morehead City Yachtbasin and use the courtesy car; or the very friendly Portside marina, or MHC town docks in MHC.

I'm very familiar with the marinas you mention and Savannah is one of my favorite places to visit. Thunderbolt is an excellent marina. But the rest of GA and all of SC, there isn't a lot of ability to haul and service large boats such as those Thunderbolt or Jarrett Bay can. My criteria was limited in that it was largely how large a boat can they haul and service. Just as unfair as basing it on charter operations to be quite as honest. One criteria not relevant to most people. Many things that go into being a good boating area.

But Tom listed all the places in NC he disliked. I have to be honest. I've cruised something over 40,000 miles since the start of 2013, up and down both coasts and several other countries, and haven't run into as many places in all of that I didn't like. His requirements to be liked are obviously much harder to meet than mine.

Maybe I'm too easy to please although that would surprise me. Perhaps it's that I look for the best and minimize the bad. I live in Fort Lauderdale and when I cruise to Maine, I know I won't see megayacht marinas capable of handling 300' yachts. I'll see downeast and lobsters and a very different kind of boating and town. I like large and small and appreciate both for what they are. There are many who love NC and hate South Florida because they don't like the crowds. They're mostly not huge fans of NYC either. Comparing places rather than appreciating them on their own gets dangerous.

I did find this comment interesting and perhaps very much a part of his thoughts. "(BTW... We were robbed while we slept if one of your stellar townships. One where the city provided security for and then announced the operational hours of it... Guess when we got hit? 15 minutes after the patrol ended. I am still a little bitter about it.)"

 

[Tom.B]

Beaufort, the town marina is all about the location

Agreed... Beaufort is an amazing location, but like I said, it's frustrating to pay so much to get such bad bathrooms facilities. However, a couple of free beers never hurt either :-D Our most favorite place to go is your home port, MHCYB. The Morehead town docks are nice too. We have never stayed at Portside, but know Dennard <sp> from our stays at the town docks. If anyone makes you feel welcome, it's him! Same goes for the team at MHCYB.

 

[BandB]

One other factor in looking at various states. Florida, California, Washington have something very much in common. Their largest population centers are on the coasts. South Florida metropolitan area has 6 million people, nearly the same as Atlanta but Atlanta is far inland. That's more than the three largest in NC, none of which are on the coast. But what one loves another strongly dislikes. It's all a bit like saying the shopping in Charlotte isn't as good as NYC. Well, neither is the shopping anywhere else.

You are certainly entitled to your views, Tom. I just don't share them. Obviously, I chose South Florida for boating or I wouldn't have moved. Sometimes when we're too close to places we think they're perfect, but other times we see all their blemishes. We lived near Charlotte and people would talk about what a beautiful city. We loved it as we lived on Lake Norman and not in town itself, but I grew up in the city. As a long term resident I knew the ugly, the bad and run down parts of the city, the areas that were bad when I was a kid and haven't really improved.

I have an older cousin who moved to Cary when it was considered "out in the country." I'm sure you will attest, not so today.

 

[caltexflanc]

I live in Fort Lauderdale and when I cruise to Maine, I know I won't see megayacht marinas capable of handling 300' yachts.

Never been to Maine I take it? Or at least Belfast or Boothbay Harbor to name two?

 

[Heron]

There are many who love NC and hate South Florida because they don't like the crowds. They're mostly not huge fans of NYC either. Comparing places rather than appreciating them on their own gets dangerous.

True....One of the reasons I moved from (overcrowded) Atlanta, to relatively rural Eastern NC. One thing we enjoyed during our early season cruising on the Pamlico was Never seeing another boat. It was like the river/sound was our own private retreat. Naturally that's picked up some since Memorial day.....

 

[DavidM]

For Johnny who started this thread and then it got way off track: Sonny no longer has that trawler that was mentioned in the second or third post for charter. It was a Mariner 37, a nice cruising boat that would have been perfect.


I guess that means there are no trawlers available for charter in NC.


David

 

[BandB]

Never been to Maine I take it? Or at least Belfast or Boothbay Harbor to name two?

No, I've never been to either and I wasn't aware of marinas in either that could handle 300' boats. Now not owning a 300' boat, I've not really searched for that. Maine is probably a couple of years away. Want to go there and then on up and around and down to Montreal.

 

[Ski in NC]

I've considered renting out skiffs off my dock. Similar to leasing out a trawler, just a smaller scale. I ran this by my marine insurance guy and he laughed so hard he spit beer all over. I asked him if a bug got in his beer and he laughed again. No bug.

Apparently it is difficult to arrange insurance for such an endeavor. But it is being done in other regions, so apparently not impossible.

Anyone know how the boat insurance is handled? Leasee obtain their own??

 

[psneeld]

Ski - these guys insure a bunch of commercial marine operations..including the company that used to own the assistance tower I work for and they do everything from tug/barge, salvage, environmental cleanup work and much more.


They either cover the local boat rental places or probably know who does or how.


Home Page - J. Byrne Agency, Inc.

 

[BandB]

As psneeld pointed out, there are commercial insurers who handle charter boats routinely. A very large percentage of larger boats are made available for charter. The most important thing is never rent your boat out under any circumstances without that insurance. Same thing to renting a home out as a vacation home. Insurers are quick to ask those questions when processing a claim.

I have a friend who just had a minor auto wreck. When the insurance claim representative called them, while Uber was never mentioned by name, the first half dozen questions or more were all designed to get an admission if the car was being used to transport passengers for pay. So, automatically State Farm representatives are asking those questions to see if they can deny a claim and I imagine other insurers are doing the same.

The Charter business is just a tough financial equation. People aren't willing to pay what it takes to make it successful. A lot of charter operators think they're doing fine because they're not looking at the depreciation or replacement costs. The location of charter boats must be somewhere people travel and are not cost conscious. Virgin Islands is a great example. The reason they work in the PNW is people are willing to pay what it takes to cruise to Alaska. San Francisco has tourists spending large amounts of money.

Most of the Caribbean charter companies don't own boats, but sell them to individuals who then put them in Charter. That's what NW Explorations does and Grand Banks is trying to promote through them. Chitwood is trying the same thing.

In most places then Charter doesn't work well enough for a charterer to buy boats to put into it. It does work for others to own and put into charter with them sometimes simply because they're getting some income for the times they can't use the boat.

 

[DavidM]

It will be very difficult if not impossible for an individual to obtain the insurance he needs to rent his 35' trawler to the public. Insurers want to make sure that the chartering company is substantial so they will do at least some due diligence of their customers and to spread the risk among many boats. It usually takes 10 or more boats in a charter fleet to make the insurance worthwhile.


Don't ever take money for the use of your boat other than sharing of expenses among friends. Taking money automatically makes it commercial use and your insurance will not cover any loss. Not for damage to the boat, but also as the owner you may be liable for claims from third parties for property or personal injury and those potentially bigger claims won't be covered. The potential for losses is astronomical, so don't do it.


Homes and car rentals have their own commercial limitations and each state or insurance company may cover or not cover different things. But the boat situation is pretty universal: money = commercial use = no coverage.


David

 

[psneeld]

My last policy allowed up to 5 charters a year, no additional anything.


I don't remember if it could be bareboat..probably not...but lets not make this scarier than it is....the right companies insure lots of combinations all the time.


Ski I think is talking a skiff fleet...not a personal vessel.