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Old 05-11-2022, 08:25 AM   #101
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I asked (what seemed to me to be) a simple question. The answer was no, and I ended up answering it myself with a call to CBSA. One wonders how long this thread will go on? Without careful reading, perhaps forever. Such is forum life, I suppose.
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Old 05-12-2022, 05:25 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by HeadedToTexas View Post
Specifically Crystal Bay on the Canadian side of the Detroit River. I get that I do not meet the criteria to enter Canada, but the rules for entering Canada are muddy these days. The page below summarizes important information for private boaters who are navigating Canadian waters or hoping to enter Canada by boat.

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-v...pb-pp-eng.html

The language in question is about a third the way down the page:
If you enter Canadian waters for leisure and touring, including pleasure fishing, sightseeing and other discretionary purposes (known as loop movements), you are not required to report to the CBSA as long as the boat does not land on Canadian soil, anchor, moor or come alongside another boat in Canadian waters.
I do not plan to land on Canadian soil nor anchor alongside another boat in Canadian waters. My plan is to anchor all by my lonesome on some quiet weekday and enjoy the clear waters and nearby ship traffic in the Detroit River. It really comes down to how you read all those commas in that last compound sentence.

Anyone know of a ruling or clarification on that section?
Seems very straight forward to me. You said you were going to anchor (all by your lonesome). Its says you cannot anchor.
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Old 05-12-2022, 05:26 AM   #103
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It clearly states that you cannot anchor.
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Old 05-12-2022, 11:17 AM   #104
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The rules to enter Canada:

1. Vaccinated traveler
2. Use the ArriveCAN app within the 72 hours preceding your crossing
3. Report to a port of entry

Anchoring in Canadian water constitutes entering Canada - 1-3 above are required

It’s not muddy, it’s very clear. Perhaps you are thinking about 2020-2021??
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Old 05-12-2022, 03:03 PM   #105
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I love that this thread was answered in the first couple posts but now has over 100. I guess lots of us have too much time on our hands. I am in Canada, not by boat, but everyone is so nice I can't imagine the worst case scenarios actually happening. Although the customs agents did seem overly interested in what kind of work I was doing in Canada, but everyone else in the country seems genuinely happy to see you like you are the best person they've met and helped today. Refreshing, coming from the NYC environment and mindset.
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Old 05-12-2022, 06:16 PM   #106
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I can't imagine the worst case scenarios actually happening.
Let me tell you how the worst case scenarios happen. First, the guilty party questions, argues with, asks for prove, provokes, the officer questioning. That leads to a more thorough search of the boat and of the violator. Ultimately, an arrest is made for the illegal entry but perhaps other charges like resisting or like having a gun aboard or like refusal to obey lawful orders. A simple situation grows like a simple question to a 100 post thread. It's like criticizing and arguing with moderators on a web site but it's criminal instead of just against rules.

Worst case doesn't happen when the person says, "I'm so sorry. I didn't realize." That might get you permission to pull up your anchor and move to the US side. Worst case happens when the guilty party escalates things, argues commas with an LEO, tells the LEO he needs to see a ruling. Canadian officers are typically very courteous, but don't argue their authority or play lawyer with them. Worst case happens every day in every jurisdiction. I've witnessed it in the Bahamas with boats anchoring and the owners saying they had rights of safe passage. They likely would have gotten small fines but I saw one taken to jail and fined $15,000 because he wanted to argue the law. He had the money wired so he could return to his boat. Oh, the judge did reduce it to $10,000 when he agreed to pay.
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Old 05-12-2022, 08:02 PM   #107
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You can try to do whatever you want. But when you are boarded, hold your tongue.
The days of playing hide and seek are long gone. RADAR and AIS
I dont care which country you enter, report to customs. Be respectful, if they find you have inadvertently broken a regulation, have a contrite heart, pay the fine and apology. If the allow you to remain in their country, clear customs and be on your way. Attitude has everything to do with measuring the dollar amount of the fine.
When I went to Canada to work.... I identified, in writing, EVERYTHING when I crossed into Canada, in writing. Coming back, I had that piece of paper where I identify what I was bringing to the country, including the dog and a beautiful, hand engraved, 16ga side by side shot gun, which has since been stolen. Custom's was happy, I was happy, the dog was happy. I think it took no more than 15 minutes.
I did everything but bow down to them.
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Old 05-12-2022, 08:04 PM   #108
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Exactly! I have an acquaintance that visited Canada several years ago and decided to dock for lunch before moving and checking in. Officials arrived and started inspecting his boat. He immediately approached the (young) officer and questioned what was the problem. When explaining to him he was in violation and and could be fined and boat confiscated. He responded calling the officer "sonny" based on his apparent age and demanded to speak to his superior. Bottom line it didn't turn out well for him.
Superior told him they would be gracious and skip the boat confiscation but wrote him a citation for a $1,000 or $2,000 fine (I forgot the exact $#) and sent him on his way back to the US.
Lesson - don't be casual / careless with border crossing...
AND CERTAINLY DON'T BE STUPID WITH RESPONSES TO ANYONE WITH A UNIFORM & BADGE REGARDLESS HOW YOUNG THEY APPEAR.
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Old 05-12-2022, 08:41 PM   #109
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BandiB, LOL The custom officers are not young. We have just become older.
An observation; even our doctors are getting younger.
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Old 05-12-2022, 09:28 PM   #110
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In a way the OP is right, it`s all been said, many times, though initially disputed. Even so,surely the OP deserves the 2022 Don Quixote Award, unless bested as the year continues.
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Old 05-13-2022, 06:15 AM   #111
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Okay folks, personally I do believe we have settled this. Of course we do seem to have one 'sea lawyer' who will never be convinced ....

I will gladly admit, I learn that once your anchor hits the bottom, you are "landed." I guess I never thought that far ahead.

I shall leave ya'll to sort this out.

After all is said and done, I do believe the correct answer will float to the top and that answer is, "Don't try it."
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Old 05-13-2022, 07:23 AM   #112
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Got it. Thanks folks. I am definitely not going to Canada any time soon.
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Old 05-13-2022, 08:14 PM   #113
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Even from this remote location the key issue is obvious.
Vaxxed = yes; not vaxxed = no.

Protest lost.
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Old 05-13-2022, 08:52 PM   #114
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Protest? It was a simple question, Bruce.
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Old 05-13-2022, 09:57 PM   #115
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Ok I’m going to ask a truly stupid question.
So you sail in by your self or you sail in at night or you sail in and it’s truly bumpy or you sail in and C&I is closed.
In all,of the Caribbean in each of situations I’ve anchored then raised a “Q” then dinghied in to get practique as soon as reasonable.
Now is that truly illegal for Canada? I’ve anchored before going to C&I in the past.
Even for Bermuda if the customs dock is full or the office closed as long as you clear as soon as reasonable possible they don’t make a big deal of it. Is that also true for Canada?
Can someone walk me through the details of obtaining practique for Canada beyond the Noonsite or Canadian web page.
Do you have to bring the boat along their pier? Or just appear at the office? Only once had to do that reentering the US. Have done all the pre work (DTOPS etc)for boats and planes so usually do it passing by a port of entry being US flagged. That time had two foreign crew. Still, anchored made and made an appointment and cleared along side in Newport RI. before going to my home port up the bay. Elsewhere just dinghied in. Yes in Roadtown BVI they won’t let you go into slip before clearing. You must anchor in front of their office and dinghy in. But they let you anchor.
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Old 05-13-2022, 11:38 PM   #116
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With respect to Canada and the US I`m going to assume that anchoring with intent to clear customs when the office opens is no different than tying to the dock with intent to clear when the office opens. No one goes ashore except the captain. The captain only goes ashore to clear in. Of course there's the brief time when someone hops on the dock to secure lines. While anchoring or tying up then all aboard going out to dinner before clearing in is not legal.
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Old 05-13-2022, 11:46 PM   #117
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Common sense would prevail if someone docked or anchored and was unable to clear customs until the office opened. But even if the 1800 # was not working, one can radio CG and have them log intent to clear. It is really that simple, that is if you are smarter than a 5th grader.
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Old 05-14-2022, 06:41 AM   #118
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So it’s the same as everywhere else I’ve cleared in the world. Same rules. Same restrictions. Only variance is some countries want everyone but most like Canada just want the master of the vessel. To deter theft or if I need assistance I’ve often taken the bride with me. She’s listed as mate/crew on the crew list. Nowhere have I gotten into trouble for doing that.

So why in G-d’s name is this the #118th post? What’s the big deal? Yes it’s a border to be respected. If you’re crossing in and out frequently get a transponder. At 40 crossings it’s economic. Sometimes like with BVI/USVI it makes sense to “import” the boat. We did that one year while dealing with a succession f transient guests. Cheaper for them to fly into USVI but wanted to sail BVI so took a slip there.
Why bitch at Canadian customs . If you cross the Detroit into Canada you should be clearing back into the USA when you return. That’s just as much a hassle.
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Old 05-14-2022, 06:46 AM   #119
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Specifically in Canada, you can not enter the country w/o a covid vaccination. I suspect the OP is not vacinated, not that it matters to me personally. He was questioning the language, assuming that if he anchored alone and was not near anybody or went ashore, would he need to clear customs. That was answered pretty quickly in the thread, not sure why it's still being discussed.
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Old 05-14-2022, 08:05 AM   #120
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Me neither. I went through the lengthy process of talking with CBSA and after the agent twice went up the ladder for clarification, provided a clear answer. That was on page 2 as I recall.
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