Designing & Building Hammerhead

[Hippocampus]

Much merit to Guy’s post. Very enthusiastic you chosen to undertake this project and agree one size doesn’t fit all. Realize lay outs for LDL boat creates particular difficulties beyond those faced with more “traditional “ BWBs. One is achieving isolation of the nav/helm position from the rest of the boat. Red lights aren’t really sufficient at night. Some like no interior lights, screens dimmed and quiet. During the day some prefer no through traffic or distractions. But a separated space with convertible berth seating behind a dedicated helm allowing 360 vision is hard to do in a narrow boat. Closest is the glass enclosed upper helm of the Arksen. The Artnautica, yours, and the Deep Water include the helm position as part of the active living space. It’s a more efficient use of the space but with trade offs. Personally prefer a dark boat. Once you’re acclimated you can see quite well. But even a second or two ruins it and it can take 20-30m to fully return. On passage find it’s important to maintain a circadian rhythm. Find even with three you can sneak in two sleep periods, get your 7-8h and not ruin your biorhythms. Folks get up in the middle of the night. Rummage around. Use white light cooking or looking for stuff even when you ask them not to.
I cruise with my bride and not infrequently newbies. They find it most reassuring if I’m close at hand. Not even steps away requiring them to leave the helm or raise their voice. I like to leave the helm to check on stuff and even occasionally do a quick fix. I don’t like leaving the helm totally unattended even though on passage the AP does 100% of the steering.
I see that side doors are problematic in all these designs and continue to meet A rating requirements. Still they provide natural ventilation, a wonderful non obstructive view and the music of the water. Many prefer natural ventilation. Nothing to break, no noise and prevents that isolated feeling you sometimes get on a boat. Found if anchored out AC was not required even in the tropics. Only needed it when in a marina. Suspect this vessel will spend more time at anchor than in a slip.
As you say all boats are comprises. It’s a great concept and excellent hull. One of the beauties of Al is the ease to customize. Perhaps develop and offer several layouts. For a one off design is usually less than 10% of total cost. Given you would be modifying only one space should be a even more modest expense.

 

[Salty Pelican]

This is the promise I made in our first blog post here, now many pages ago:

"I'll try to inform you guys and galls on our progress. Once I figured out how to post pics, I'll share some designs as well."

Never was this project intended to be a democratic design process by which "the ultimate long distance cruiser" would be designed by the whole trawler forum together. We cherish your input, and a lot of it makes sense, and some of it got included into our design. Then again, a lot of it, if one read the original design goals also layed out in our first post, did not make sense and won't or even cannot make it into our design, since it would compromise those very goals we set out to achieve.

If that is frustrating to some, so be it. That's not on us. It does sadden us though, since - to us - this project is about joy and innovation and freely (and thoroughly!) sharing our thinking. And I don't think we missed even one of your remarks or questions. We addressed all things raised by you. But raising them doesn't create a situation where we need to listen and change our minds. We did indeed sincerely and rigorously explain our insights. Us and - with us - our team of amazing Dutch boat builders with over 125 year of boat building experience to share.

And we are all grown ups, right? There was a time when our mums & dads told us what to do. But if they do so now, it is called advise, not an order one has to follow. Does that mean you ask your parents to shut up? No. Does it mean they should stop sharing, because you stopped listening? You didn't stop listening, you just started making your own decisions at a certain point in life and that is your privilege. As it is ours to stick to our guns.

Should we be worried that we won't become commercially successful that way? If you do what everybody else does, don't be surprised to end up where everybody else already is. I am not worried, and neither should any of you. Really. There's challenges that belong in our domain, and that definately do not belong in someone else's domain.

We'll keep on sharing. You are invited to reflect. Some of your points will make it over into our design, others won't. If that is "disappointing" I am not sure how we can amend that. In fact we are pretty sure we cannot. Why address it? Why this blog post? Because - as mentioned before - with you taking the responsibility to give us your advise, for us at least comes the responsibility to answer thoroughly and to share our logic with you as clearly as we can.

At your service,

Edwin & Veronika.

 

[Hippocampus]

Different folks different boats. Best of luck

 

[Salty Pelican]

Amen to that!

We just changed our 1 life raft for 8 people to 2 life rafts for 4 people.

This makes sense from the perspective that a big life raft with few people in them isn't all that stable. And the boat will usually sail with 2 to 3 people anyways.

Also, the smaller life rafts are easier to handle. Smaller, lighter.

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

 

[JWellington]

Edwin,


You have received many comments here from experienced boaters that have looked at your plans and taken the time to provide excellent feedback. The feedback includes some constructive criticism and suggestions for improvements. Your response has pretty consistently been to explain your logic and stick with your decisions. Of course it is your project and you should build the boat you want, but if you want to pursue the idea of selling this model, you have to make it appeal to someone else. This thread is full of suggestions for improvements, many of which may be required if you wish to successfully market the design to the cruising community.


Best of luck with your project.

I thought this was just his personal custom boat, not a design for a production boat. Even if, of course everybody has to buy a production boat that most suits him. Usually none are perfect.

 

[Salty Pelican]

All boats are a compromise, as our NA puts it.



Regards, Edwin.

 

[twistedtree]

I thought this was just his personal custom boat, not a design for a production boat. Even if, of course everybody has to buy a production boat that most suits him. Usually none are perfect.

I think it is 95% his personal custom design. But he feels others will want it too, so is making it available as a business as well. As with all new boat offerings, it will be interesting to see what the demand is. The market for this type of skinny fast boat has so far been very limited. I think Dashew has had the most success, but still only 18 boats.

 

[Hippocampus]

Still Steve was a long term cruiser. He stopped building not due to lack of demand (my understanding people were begging him to continue the series) but rather a desire to not have boat building projects interfere with his boating and life. There remains a significant desire to own one even now. Resale value is higher %age of initial cost than for most boats. Even other quality BWBs.
Circa is a builder not designer as is Alubat( now doing Artnautica). Think Steve didn’t want his name associated with boats that he didn’t personally oversee the construction. Think conclusion of that run was for personal reasons not economic.
Believe people are waiting in line for building slots for Arksen, Artnautica and Deep Water. Perhaps not at the level of wait for Nordhavn. Things may shift if fuel availability and cost remain difficult. In the sailing world high lat cruising has become increasingly popular. So perhaps in power light ice class certification may become more important.

 

[Salty Pelican]

I'd say it is 100% our custom design!

The goal was - and is - to design a boat that makes long-distance cruising on a motor yacht achievable and fun. Comfortable sea state to make the trip as enjoyable as possible. Efficient design to ensure the ship's actual use case is feasible (payable). Safe.

The feedback we get, made us realize that there is a market for a ship according to our design specs, which made us up our game. We enlarged the team and expect to maybe sell one boat per year or per two years, once our first one is in the water.

If it doesn't sell, that's not a biggie either. The least we'll achieve is our perfect boat. I already have businesses that make money. More than we could ever expect to earn with this project (if any at all). But we love the idea of helping more people cross oceans and visit other continents on their own hulls.

Regards, Edwin.

 

[Hippocampus]

Think boats like yours are rarely anyones first boat. Hope you keep an open mind and allow subsequent hulls to be that owners perfect boat. Only had one boat built for me that was semi custom. Builder allowed owners to spec their boats and make substantial modifications. Those he liked and that appealed to others he incorporated as base in as the series went on. I owned #50. They are now building the high 70s. The hull and major structural elements haven’t changed but many features have and the design continues to evolve. That was a very successful business plan for Phil. Like you he planned for 1-3/yr. and was successful for over 20y and still going.

 

[Salty Pelican]

Thanks for sharing, Hippo! Sound advise.

I think, over time, there will be multiple options designed. Like a salon configuration with one or two dedicated captain chairs. I'd like the base concept to stay the same. It's a bit like how we approached the distilling industry, where we designed a complete new line of stills, and added options to differentiate for various use-cases. Yet, the base stayed the same. This allowed us to learn and innovate at a quicker space, while spreading back what we learned to existing customers through retrofitting. Not sure the latter can be achieved in boat building, but a move away from every boat being a one-off is essential in my model of how this could work.

Regards, Edwin.

 

[Salty Pelican]

Good bye "Salty Pelican", meet "Moonshine"!

Yesterday "Moonshine" got checked out and she passed with flying colors. Few minor things that need repairs, but no show-stoppers. Means we'll sell "Salty Pelican" and upgrade to this newer and bigger yacht for inland and some offshore adventure.

At 50 feet and 28 tonnes (metric), she's quite a size up to our current boat. She sleeps 6 with ease, vs. 4 now. A more stable and still very economical yacht. Her 6.1 liter, 6 cylinder, 170 hp Vetus-Deutz has seen 880 hours so far. Engine & yacht are from 2015.

Here are some pics. We'll take formal possession of her coming weekend. Saturday we'll sail "Salty Pelican" to "Moonshine's" harbor, where she'll be put up for sale. We'll transfer all of our stuff on the new boat and probably do a first little trip on Sunday.

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

 

[Salty Pelican]

Here's the logo and name our youngest daughter designed. It will all be made in 3 mm thick polished stainless steel ...

Regards, Edwin & Veronika

 

[Salty Pelican]

... and here's the proof print:

 

[Salty Pelican]

By by "Salty Pelican", hello "Moonshine"

Yesterday we sailed Salty Pelican to our new boat's harbor and moved our stuff from the old boat to the new one. A LOT of work!

Here's a picture of Salty Pelican (left) and your new motor yacht Moonshine (right).

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

 

[guy with a boat]

Yesterday we sailed Salty Pelican to our new boat's harbor and moved our stuff from the old boat to the new one. A LOT of work!

Here's a picture of Salty Pelican (left) and your new motor yacht Moonshine (right).

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

Congrats on the new boat. Looks good and I like the name.

Did you consider getting a boat more similar to what you plan to build? It seems like this would be a good opportunity to learn more about that boat type, by buying and living with a boat closer to your new design.

 

[Salty Pelican]

Thank you!

Even though it is a steel boat, and not an aluminium one, it does have similarities to our new design. Or at least - relative to Salty Pelican - she's a big step in our new design's direction.

Living, eating, cooking, and sailing on the same level. A relatively low design. Single engine. CE-A instead of CE-B, so ocean-worthy instead of sea-worthy. Panoramic view all around from the salon/wheelhouse. An axe type bow (not negatively as in the LM65h design, but much closer to it than Salty Pelican). Trim wedge / hull vane at the back to push her back out of the water a bit. Low sound levels. A big master with en suite. Sun beds up front. Bigger range.

Regards, Edwin.

 

[Salty Pelican]

Interior pics motor yacht "Moonshine"

Some more pics. The outside seating area. Covered by a roof and can be inclosed by a tent. Seats 6 to 7.

Same level seating, cooking, and sailing. The dinner table can be enlarged. Salon sits 5. Steering position can seat 2. And all at the same level as the outside seating area. 4-stage folding door (to the sides) in between inside and outside, that can open so far that in- and outside become one place.

Huge electrically opening hatch in the salon. Love the breeze of air it gives as well as the connection to the water, via sound and smell.

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

 

[Salty Pelican]

LM65h: Steering Console Drawer

For convenience's sake, we are contemplating the idea of bringing the autotiller and autopilot closer to the seating position by integrating them in a drawer.

Regards, Edwin.

 

[Salty Pelican]

Steering System Foundation LM65h

Here's a drawing of the LM65h's steering system foundation.

Regards, Edwin.

 

[Salty Pelican]

Tomorrow, we'll start our two week vacation. The first week we'll visit, with our new motor yacht "Moonshine", the cities of Geertruidenberg, Tilburg, and Den Bosch. From there back to our own harbor. That'll be the first week.

The second week we don't know exactly yet, but we will visit the province of Zealand. Wider water, slightly longer stints.

We are SO looking forward to learning the ropes on our new yacht! First week will see smaller water ways, more bridges, and lots of locks. The second week will be more salty with probably at least one day at open sea, hopefully with some 5-ish Beaufort wind conditions, to learn how she handles bigger waves and winds, and wether she needs stabilization or not.

We'll keep you posted via short updates and some pics in the days to come! Here's a picture of the route for the first week. Short 3.5 to 4.5 hour stints. Sleeping in medieval city center ports. Visiting churches, castles, and local diners ...

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

 

[Salty Pelican]

First stint: Sleeuwijk to Geertruidenberg

After lots of little chores, we were finally able to leave the Sleeuwijk harbor at 12h15 pm. We sailed the boat over the Merwede river to the Biesbos lock. Easy transition, but - hey - a first one with a new boat: always interesting!

After the Biesbos lock came the Biesbos proper: a wild area of meandering water and trees. Remaining wild lands and wet lands from the early 15th century St-Elisabeth Flood that killed maybe 100,000 people.

Undeep waters. At one moment the depth sounder measured 0.0 meters under the boat's keel. I think the former owner hadn't done proper calibration, but - anyhow - sailing a 30,000 kilo boat with less than a foot of water under her ... always interesting!

Veronika did the southern part of our Biesbos journey. After that came the Amer river, that we just needed to follow for like a mile before turning starboard onto the Donge river. Following that waterway we reached the beautiful little town of Geertruidenberg (an old fortress town), where we docked "Moonshine" and will stay overnight.

A few pics to share our impressions ...

Regards, Edwin & Veronika.

 

[CharlieO.]

What country are you traveling?

 

[Salty Pelican]

The Netherlands.

 

[Salty Pelican]

Second stint: to Tilburg

Today Veronika and I sailed "Moonshine" to Tilburg. First, the Donge river, then the Wilhelmina Channel. We did three locks, each lifting us up 12 feet a time. We also encountered numerous bridges. Some high enough, some that we needed to call first, to have 'm opened.

VHF works fine. And it is lovely to see how all lower bridges in the city of Tilburg work together. You hail one, the rest automatically (sort off) catches up on it. So you sail to the next low bridge and it opens as you approach.

Where we are now? In Tilburg. City center at the Pius Harbor. First row seating! We'll stay here today and tomorrow. Some sightseeing ... and there's a beer festival tomorrow!

Regards, Edwin.

 

[twistedtree]

Edwin,

Do pleasure boats use the Blue Light system for passing on the canals? Or is that limited to commercial or larger boats? And are there operator license requirements that are specific to the canals?

 

[Salty Pelican]

Not sure what the blue light system is, Tanglewood?

Over here in the Netherlands anybody can use the rivers, lakes, sea, and the canals. But ... it is the professional boats that basically always have "right of way". They rule, and we adapt. And we better adapt, because they (most of them at least) don't care even the slightest for us. They follow their course and if pleasure boats are in their way ... f*ck 'm. Again: our problem.

Not sure if/how that relates to the blue light situation though. I guess I need more info on what it entails.

The worst thing in the canals is those big 3 million kilo (6,6 kilotons in pounds?) pro barges. And the fact that - since they measure like 400 feet - they are always faster than you. So we like to choose those canals that have like a speed limit we can sail at. That way nobody overtakes you. And that's the worst: A 3 million kilo ship overtaking you, when there's one or two coming from the other direction.

In short: sailing the bigger water ways in the Netherlands is like an existential puzzle to solve. If you don't your existence is in yeopardy.

Today's Wilhelmina Canal had a 12 km/h (6.5 Nm) speed limit. That's great for us. The Amsterdam-Rhine Canal has a 17 km/h (>9 Nm) speed limit, which makes the whole situation more challenging.

Regards, Edwin.

 

[Salty Pelican]

But ... if you mean blue squares to indicate they want to pass one another starboard/starboard instead of port/port, yes. The commercial barges do. What YOU do as a recreational ship is, well, up to you. Just don't get into their way!

Regards, Edwin.

 

[twistedtree]

But ... if you mean blue squares to indicate they want to pass one another starboard/starboard instead of port/port, yes. The commercial barges do. What YOU do as a recreational ship is, well, up to you. Just don't get into their way!

Regards, Edwin.

Yes, that’s what I’m talking about. It’s integrated into class A AIS as well, which is probably why I’m calling it a light. I’ve seen the square blue flags as well.

 

[Salty Pelican]

We do use the system, as pleasure boats. Passively, however. If a big barge shows these signs, we are obliged to follow their preference. Do they want to pass another ship starboard/starboard, then - as a pleasure craft - you do as they want. It is the bigger barges that use it as a way to navigate smaller rivers that meander and where they need to pass one another. From their perspective, what we do - as pleasure boaters - is quite irrelevant. For us it is very relevant. We are obliged to follow their choices, and if you don't, you may find yourself cut off in the middle of the corner. With a 3 million kilo ship pushing you aground, that's not fun, nor safe.

Regards, Edwin.