Long Island Sound to Seneca Lake

[Atlantic Rich]

I'm looking for some advice/local knowledge on getting a 36', 3.5' draft, 16' air draft trawler from LIS to Seneca Lake. I plan to do this soon and wondering the best way to get there. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Rich

 

[rslifkin]

Earliest it's possible to do it will be mid to late May once the NYS Canals open. You'd want to go from LIS to the East River, through the Harlem River, up the Hudson, through the Erie and then Cayuga-Seneca canals. 16 foot air draft is going to be extremely tight for the lowest bridge on the Cayuga-Seneca canal, but fine everywhere else. So you might need to find a way to get it down another foot.

If you've got any specific questions, I did that route this past summer, but instead of going to Seneca Lake, I went up the Oswego Canal to Lake Ontario.

 

[Atlantic Rich]

I'm really about 15.5" with my mast down. Does that help me?

 

[Zoar]

I called the Marina (Stivers) at the top of Seneca Lake and they said that last point, the lowest of all, is at its lowest 16 to 17 feet. Of course, the clearance is also dependent on rain fall, determining water level in the canal. I told them that my boat with mast down is 14 and one half and they said that should be NO problem at all, even with rain. I assume yours will be okay too but I would call Stivers Marina (315) 789-5520. They were helpful and assuring to me. They are right there so they know and they get this call a lot.

 

[rslifkin]

Yes. Lowest bridge on the trip to Seneca Lake is listed as 16 feet even, so you'll want to crawl and watch your clearance on that one if you're not definitely at 15 feet or less air draft. It's between lock CS-1 and CS-2. Everything else in the Cayuga-Seneca canal is 16.5 feet or better and everything on the Erie Canal is 21 feet or better to Three Rivers, and then 18.8 feet or better to the Cayuga-Seneca Canal.

Prior to the canals, the Hudson is clear to 25 feet at the lowest bridge up to the canals.

Only bridge you'll need opened is the Spuyten Duyvil railroad bridge at the Hudson end of the Harlem River. It's only got about 6 feet of clearance under it, so everyone has to get that one opened. If possible, check the Amtrak Empire Service schedule (those are the only trains that cross the bridge) and try to time your arrival when there's not a train likely to be coming soon (figure the bridge is around 20 - 30 minutes from Penn Station when you check the schedule). If there are no trains coming in the next few minutes, the bridge may already be open or they'll open right up if you give them a call on VHF 13. If there's a train 10 minutes out, they'll usually open for you. I've had to wait a few minutes while on a train for them to close the bridge before.

 

[smitty477]

Tip - a day before or that same morning confirm that the Spuyten Duyvil bridge will be operating by calling Amtrak.
There are times when they are down for maintenance and you do not want to commit to the Harlem river unless you know you will be able to pass thru to the Hudson.

 

[rslifkin]

Tip - a day before or that same morning confirm that the Spuyten Duyvil bridge will be operating by calling Amtrak.
There are times when they are down for maintenance and you do not want to commit to the Harlem river unless you know you will be able to pass thru to the Hudson.

Good point. Fortunately, the bridge got a heavy mechanical rebuild in 2018, so unannounced downtime should be less common than it used to be.

 

[smitty477]

Good point. Fortunately, the bridge got a heavy mechanical rebuild in 2018, so unannounced downtime should be less common than it used to be.

We have been thru that area about 3 dozen times over the years - only three times did they suspend operations on the days we intended to pass…..
1. Barge hit the middle of the bridge
2. Operator experienced an overdose on site and bridge was closed
3. train accident just north of the bridge requiring shutdown

 

[Zoar]

We have been thru that area about 3 dozen times over the years - only three times did they suspend operations on the days we intended to pass…..
1. Barge hit the middle of the bridge
2. Operator experienced an overdose on site and bridge was closed
3. train accident just north of the bridge requiring shutdown

"Operator experiencing an overdose on site" makes me wonder aloud how good of a job they actually do screening operators.... just sayin.

 

[Bacchus]

As mentioned above the 2 tight spots are RR bridges 1st between CS 1 & 2 and beyond CS 4 just before Seneca Lk.
Here's the official NYS Canal bridge clearance link that gives normal and high water clearances. The CS canal is towards the bottom so scroll way down beyond the Erie listings.
http://www.canals.ny.gov/boating/bridgeheights.html
Here is another thread with details on tentative itinerary and possible stops.
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49125
We are on Seneca... are you relocating boat there or just visiting?

 

[caltexflanc]

As I mentioned in the other Finger Lakes thread going via the Harlem River is a real shame if you never done New York, or only a few times. We took the Harlem once, just to experience it, and never again, the East River / Hudson route is so much more fun. Isn't that why you're buying a boat, to have fun?

 

[rslifkin]

As I mentioned in the other Finger Lakes thread going via the Harlem River is a real shame if you never done New York, or only a few times. We took the Harlem once, just to experience it, and never again, the East River / Hudson route is so much more fun. Isn't that why you're buying a boat, to have fun?

It's definitely a trade-off. At 7 kts, the Harlem saves about 1.5 hours and a corresponding amount of fuel. It's still a pretty trip, especially for those who like bridges. But it does skip some of the impressive Manhattan sights.

For me, it was only a 40 minute savings at 17 kts, but that also meant it would save 20 gallons of fuel. Considering I was on a tight schedule and the total trip burn came to nearly 700 gallons , I took the "every little bit counts" option and went via the Harlem.

 

[smitty477]

It's definitely a trade-off. At 7 kts, the Harlem saves about 1.5 hours and a corresponding amount of fuel. It's still a pretty trip, especially for those who like bridges. But it does skip some of the impressive Manhattan sights.

For me, it was only a 40 minute savings at 17 kts, but that also meant it would save 20 gallons of fuel. Considering I was on a tight schedule and the total trip burn came to nearly 700 gallons , I took the "every little bit counts" option and went via the Harlem.

We have taken both routes many times and going around is scenic for a bit but I do not miss the bathtub affects of large traffic and extra mileage/time spent going around.

 

[rslifkin]

We have taken both routes many times and going around is scenic for a bit but I do not miss the bathtub affects of large traffic and extra mileage/time spent going around.

I'll agree the lack of traffic is nice. Mind you, I did the run early on a Sunday (made the turn into the Harlem just before 7 AM). Saw 1 sailboat and 1 ferry in the East River and then not another boat until we turned into the Hudson.

 

[smitty477]

I'll agree the lack of traffic is nice. Mind you, I did the run early on a Sunday (made the turn into the Harlem just before 7 AM). Saw 1 sailboat and 1 ferry in the East River and then not another boat until we turned into the Hudson.

And at 16-7 knots the Harlem river also gives you the ability to take further advantage of the tides if you like.
When we timed the tides just right we could get from our home port of Northport to Kingston in 6 - 6-1/2 hours.

 

[rslifkin]

And at 16-7 knots the Harlem river also gives you the ability to take further advantage of the tides if you like.
When we timed the tides just right we could get from our home port of Northport to Kingston in 6 - 6-1/2 hours.

That was the goal, although the trans failure screwed it up a bit. We cleared #1 coming out of Stamford Harbor around 5:15 AM and turned into the Hudson just before 8 AM (did most of the Harlem at 6.5 - 7 kts while enjoying the bridge views). Made it another hour, lost a trans a little north of the Tappan Zee, limped into Haverstraw, etc. We did make good use of tides when we continued a couple days later, but that was mostly by coincidence, as we were no longer trying for it, we were just in "go" mode.

However, to catch a good rising tide up the Hudson, you do end up fighting the tide through Hell Gate and the Harlem River. But you still gain more in the Hudson than you lose prior to that.

 

[High Wire]

I called the Marina (Stivers) at the top of Seneca Lake and they said that last point, the lowest of all, is at its lowest 16 to 17 feet. Of course, the clearance is also dependent on rain fall, determining water level in the canal. I told them that my boat with mast down is 14 and one half and they said that should be NO problem at all, even with rain. I assume yours will be okay too but I would call Stivers Marina (315) 789-5520. They were helpful and assuring to me. They are right there so they know and they get this call a lot.

14.5' would include the bimini down, yes?

 

[Zoar]

Yes of course.