Apparently we have a new admin...

[HeadMistress]

...with an advanced case of Barney Fife syndrome. A new member had PM'd me with questions, I replied with some questions of my own that needed answers before I could answer hers...She sent me a new PM this morning letting me know that "Barney" had blocked her answer:
"There is content in your message that is common in spam. Since you are a new member, we cannot allow this content to be sent."

"Common in spam"...really??? Admins are not thought police! Hers was not an unsolicited PM...She was IN A CONVERSATION with ME! Did it not occur to you that someone who's been an active TF member for 14 years is capable of recognizing spam and would report any suspicious post???

Not the best way to welcome a new member!

--Peggie

 

[SteveK]

Wonder if it is a live person or AI tech targeting certain words?
I notice that when I post there is a moment the post is not the same size as the others, like it is being proof read. Would be handy to see the words sent that were deleted.

 

[ksanders]

Admins cannot see PM's in the Vbulletin forum software.

in the software there are settings to restrict new members as a way to control spam without human intervention.

From your description these settings are enabled for TF.

 

[alormaria]

Winston Smith?

 

[HeadMistress]

No words were deleted, her entire reply to me was blocked. So I have no way of knowing what triggered it.

You've made me glad I chose to vent my spleen publicly instead of just reporting it, 'cuz AI monitoring is an interesting possibility that would never have occurred to me. If that's what it is, it's a very bad idea 'cuz it really would be thought police...any post or PM from a new member that even asks about a brand name would be subject to nuking. I hope that's what it is and not a live "Barney Fife" wannabe. How do we find out?


Who's Winston Smith?



--Peggie

 

[slowgoesit]

Peggie, Kevin is indeed correct. Moderators cannot see the contents of any PM's unless a member forwards a PM to us for action. There are filters in place (not sure exactly what, as I don't have that level of access) that automatically block communications. For instance, New members with less than a certain number of posts cannot put links in ads, posts, or apparently PM's. This is due to scammers often creating a new forum identity, then pulling a number of quick scams before getting banned, or moving on. Many of the scams request that the recipient contact them using an external e-mail. Often a g-mail account, as they are easy to get, with little or no documentation needed.
These restrictions are in place to help protect members from being taken advantage of, but sometimes backfire. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Edit: We rely on members reporting suspicious posts for the most part, as there is no way the limited number of volunteer moderators could possibly vet each and every post or ad posted. Nor would we want to.

Scot K
Trawler Forum Site Team

 

[HeadMistress]

Thanks for the reply, Scot. My rant has turned into a learning experience, for which I'm grateful. Is it possible for the software to distinguish between a stand-alone scam/spam PM and a PM in a conversation with an established member?? In this case, she had sent me a PM to which I'd replied, the "offensive" material was in her attempt to reply to me. She was able to send me a separate new PM letting me know her reply had been blocked...I replied with a suggestion we move the conversation to email...and because I'm an established member, could include my email address.


Thanks to you and Kevin , my "tail feathers" have settled back down again!

--Peggie

 

[mvweebles]

I can tell you that even in PMs, cuss-words are redacted with asterisks......

Peter

 

[SeaDogAK]

Winston Smith is the main character of Nineteen Eighty-Four. Apparently he is our new mod. Maybe the new mod should be ChatGPT.

 

[slowgoesit]

Thanks for the reply, Scot. My rant has turned into a learning experience, for which I'm grateful. Is it possible for the software to distinguish between a stand-alone scam/spam PM and a PM in a conversation with an established member?? In this case, she had sent me a PM to which I'd replied, the "offensive" material was in her attempt to reply to me. She was able to send me a separate new PM letting me know her reply had been blocked...I replied with a suggestion we move the conversation to email...and because I'm an established member, could include my email address.

Thanks to you and Kevin , my "tail feathers" have settled back down again!

--Peggie

Peggie (I apologize for misspelling your name in the earlier post!)
Without seeing the post that was blocked, I'd only be guessing as to why it was blocked. I also don't have access to the parameters that are in place to block certain PM's, so I don't think I can really answer your question. If you PM user "Janet H", she may be able to answer your questions. She is an administrator over both Trawler Forum, and our sister Forum, Cruisersforum.

Hope this helps. Scot K

 

[HeadMistress]

Thanks again, Scot...and don't fret about misspelling my name...I'd guess that at least 90% of people online do.

Winston Smith is the main character of Nineteen Eighty-Four. Apparently he is our new mod. Maybe the new mod should be ChatGPT.

It's been too long since I've read 1984 for me to remember any of the characters' names.

--Peggie

 

[ranger58sb]

No words were deleted, her entire reply to me was blocked. So I have no way of knowing what triggered it.

Could possibly have been triggered simply by a combination of the other member being (relatively) new AND inclusion of a link of some sort.

I haven't seen the vBulletin security possibilities, but I've read they're generally bludgeon-like, not much finesse available. Janet would know everything about all that...

-Chris

 

[sunchaser]

Sometimes old school really works. A phone call and or email provides, for me anyway, a lot better back and forth on relevant boating issues as opposed to PMs on TF.

 

[HeadMistress]

I agree! In fact any time I receive a PM that will require more than a 2 sentence reply, I ask the sender to move the conversation to email...and, more often than not, from email to the phone, 'cuz I'd always rather talk than type and you can cover more in 30-40 minutes talking than you can by swapping a dozen emails apiece that still leave unanswered questions. And WhatsApp makes it possible for people anywhere in the world to talk to each other, text, send photos without any "long distance" charges.


--Peggie

 

[Shrew]

New users are restricted from posting pictures or links until they have reached a minimum post count. This rule attempts to thwart spam bots. This rule applies to all posts, regardless of whether they are in a public forum or Private Message. The message returned is a generic message.

Moderators cannot read PM's.

 

[Janet H]

New users are restricted from posting pictures or links until they have reached a minimum post count. This rule attempts to thwart spam bots. This rule applies to all posts, regardless of whether they are in a public forum or Private Message. The message returned is a generic message.

Moderators cannot read PM's.

This ^

New members are often surprised (and annoyed) by this but it slows down spammers. Double-edged sword.

If you have concerns about a post or PM hit the report post icon (little red triangle) to get some help from the site team.

 

[soin2la]

Interesting and enlightening.

I participate in another forum, not boating related, but a global site and have just recently learned the moderators monitor private messages. I imagine at 3 in the morning on the US east coast, reading people’s mail would be a way to keep awake. Messges sometimes disappear even after they have been sent and received.

The administrators seem to have an autocratic mentality, failing to answer ANY questions about operations.

We live in a world where anything goes, yet I wonder about the legality, or even just the ethics of this.

 

[Janet H]

Interesting and enlightening.

I participate in another forum, not boating related, but a global site and have just recently learned the moderators monitor private messages. I imagine at 3 in the morning on the US east coast, reading people’s mail would be a way to keep awake. Messges sometimes disappear even after they have been sent and received.

I would be surprised if admins were reading private messages. Most forum software doesn't have a provision for this. That said, almost all forums (including ours) have software filters in place to look for links and signs of spam. At this forum, for example, new members are not allowed to send links in messages and the software will refuse to send these messages.

Many forums extend this prohibition to all members regardless of how established.

It is also possible for members to disable messaging functions so that they do not receive messages that were sent from other members. To the message sender, this can look odd.

 

[Delta Riverat]

Sometimes old school really works. A phone call and or email provides, for me anyway, a lot better back and forth on relevant boating issues as opposed to PMs on TF.

Yeah. Texting is like Morse Code. That's why they invented telephones.

 

[wkearney99]

Forums get a ton of spam. AI bots are getting worse, pretending to be users by creating relatively on-topic gibberish.

So maybe slow your roll?

"Common in spam"...really???

 

[Shrew]

Interesting and enlightening.

I participate in another forum, not boating related, but a global site and have just recently learned the moderators monitor private messages. I imagine at 3 in the morning on the US east coast, reading people’s mail would be a way to keep awake. Messges sometimes disappear even after they have been sent and received.

The administrators seem to have an autocratic mentality, failing to answer ANY questions about operations.

We live in a world where anything goes, yet I wonder about the legality, or even just the ethics of this.

Moderators don't monitor PM's anywhere. The only way we can see a message is if it is reported to the moderators from the recipient. Trust me when I tell you, even if we could, we wouldn't. Reading the chatter and general BS of people's lives is absolutely NOT riveting and we all have many, many other things do with our time. We honestly don't care.

This is not a call center, we don't have people sitting here manning 'shifts'. We do have volunteers around the world, so at 3:00am on the East Coast of the US there is more than likely someone online from Australia.

Moderators are users like you, who happen to volunteer to keep the place tidy and polite. Without Moderators, most forums would descend into a 'Entitled Lord of the Flies' which would be appealing to almost nobody.

 

[Mako]

I think most here appreciate the Moderator's efforts to keep conversations civilized. Yes, sometimes it gets a bit annoying, but overall it works well. Without such the forum would become more like Sailing Anarchy. If you really want to be entertained and see constant F-bombs dropped, head over there.

 

[jwnall]

I hardly ever check the Trawler Forum any more these days, since I sold my boat. But since two people whom I admire tremendously (Peggie Hall and Janet H) are having a discussion, I just want to put my two-cents in for what it is worth. During my time as a moderator, I found that the focused goal in life for the moderators was to make the forum enjoyable and informative for the users. Period. I believe that to still be the case. I do understand what Peggie's peeve is, but it certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with any action on the part of moderators. And since she mentioned AI (artificial intelligence), I suppose that it might be only a matter of time until ChatGPT or one of its cohorts is invited to be a moderator. That should make for interesting reading, so I will check in more often.

 

[Peter B]

Hi John. Good to hear from you. Yes, do keep checking in. You don't have to be a boat owner to still contribute. Our boat had to go 5 years ago now, but I still find it interesting to stay on board, and I help out with the modding where I can, mainly in just tidying things up, eg mis-placed threads, voting on joint decisions, etc, because I have the time.

 

[slowgoesit]

Thread closed.

Thanks for the interesting discussion folks.

Typically discussions about moderation are kept private between the directly involved parties and we do this for obvious privacy reasons. Since some concern was raised about general account privacy there was some value in this thread but it seems to have run it's course.

In future, if you have any questions regarding moderation, whether it be moderation in general, or a specific incident you have questions about, please utilize the red "!" report function instead of posting on an open forum.

Thanks for understanding.

Trawler Forum Site Team