|
|
12-09-2019, 08:01 PM
|
#1
|
Newbie
City: newport
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4
|
Water entered albin trawler engine
Can anyone who has owned an Albin suggest remedies to prevent water from entering the engine. It was suggested it may be entering through the exhaust system
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 10:40 AM
|
#2
|
Guru
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,037
|
Which model and year? Engine?
We will need to see several good pictures of your exhaust system. A poorly designed system is usually the reason water gets back into the engine.
How old is the exhaust elbow?
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 11:07 AM
|
#3
|
Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,565
|
Greetings,
Welcome aboard. What Mr. jl said above plus faulty: heat exchanger, oil cooler, head gasket or...
__________________
RTF
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 12:49 PM
|
#4
|
Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,187
|
Welcome aboard.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 01:33 PM
|
#5
|
Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,785
|
How do you know you got water in your engine?
David
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 02:26 PM
|
#6
|
Guru
City: Oconto, WI
Vessel Name: Best Alternative
Vessel Model: 36 Albin Aft Cabin
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,145
|
Way to vague. We need specifics and pictures.
But.. sounds like an engine specific problem like RTF noted. If nothing changed in your exhaust system recently, look inside the engine or components.
pete
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 03:41 PM
|
#7
|
Newbie
City: newport
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard
Which model and year? Engine?
We will need to see several good pictures of your exhaust system. A poorly designed system is usually the reason water gets back into the engine.
How old is the exhaust elbow?
|
As far as I know the exhaust elbow is original I have a 1980 Albin Ford Lehman 120 HP engine. Just had the engine rebuilt because 3 cylinders were rusted frozen & want to avoid this problem from recurring Thanks,
Jay
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 03:44 PM
|
#8
|
Newbie
City: newport
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 4
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossways8
As far as I know the exhaust elbow is original I have a 1980 Albin Ford Lehman 120 HP engine. Just had the engine rebuilt because 3 cylinders were rusted frozen & want to avoid this problem from recurring Thanks,
Jay
|
When engine was rebuilt was told the fins on the Impeller were virtually gone
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 04:06 PM
|
#9
|
Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,785
|
Crossways:
That is a start but still woefully inadequate to do anything but bombshell you wih lots of theories, most of which will be irrelevant.
Let's assume that we can't know anything more about the cause of this rebuild other than "three cylinders were rusted and frozen". Let's also assume that the engine is now rebuilt and is running fine but you don't want the same thing to happen again.
So.....get an oil analysis done. Blackstone is one of the best. Then publish the results here so we can see the data ourselves. That will form a basis for further investigation.
Why an oil analysis? Well, one will definitely rule in or out saltwater getting into the engine. And even though I don't pay much attention to a single analysis (other than high sodium content), something major might show up which will lead us to further diagnostics. It is the one thing you can do easily that will provide a path towards knowing what if anything is going on.
David
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 07:27 PM
|
#10
|
Veteran Member
City: St. Joseph
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossways8
Can anyone who has owned an Albin suggest remedies to prevent water from entering the engine. It was suggested it may be entering through the exhaust system
|
Interesting this should pop up here. There is an older thread on the Albin Owners page that recently revived after another 36 owner posed questions about ensuring water didn’t end up in his engine. You might be interested in taking a look at it.
http://www.albinowners.com/aog/viewt...hp?f=20&t=5930
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 07:52 PM
|
#11
|
Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,565
|
Greetings,
Mr. c8. If you haven't done so already AND you don't know the history of, change the oil and transmission coolers AND the heat exchanger. All of them are maintenance items with a finite lifespan. Would be a shame to have to rebuild, yet again. NOT saying this is the source of your water but preventive maintenance is cheaper than a rebuild. Shouldn't cost more than $700 max.
__________________
RTF
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 07:57 PM
|
#12
|
Veteran Member
City: St. Joseph
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
Greetings,
Mr. c8. If you haven't done so already AND you don't know the history of, change the oil and transmission coolers AND the heat exchanger. All of them are maintenance items with a finite lifespan. Would be a shame to have to rebuild, yet again. NOT saying this is the source of your water but preventive maintenance is cheaper than a rebuild. Shouldn't cost more than $700 max.
|
I'm curious, RT, where are you sourcing your parts, particularly the heat exchanger for the Lehman 120? Coolers are $100 each, and the heat exchangers I've seen are around $600. (I guess I'm assuming the OP has a 120. Maybe you're referring to a different engine used in Albins.)
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 08:45 PM
|
#13
|
Guru
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,609
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossways8
As far as I know the exhaust elbow is original I have a 1980 Albin Ford Lehman 120 HP engine. Just had the engine rebuilt because 3 cylinders were rusted frozen & want to avoid this problem from recurring Thanks, Jay
|
I would replace the exhaust elbow. It's pricey but easy to replace. Only 4 bolts (but one of them will break during removal requiring installation of helicoil.)
Rusted rings could result from several things. Possible that water backed up through exhaust manifold during excessive cranking but that might flood a cylinder chamber and at that point you are hydrolocked and then engine won't turn over. If someone just walked away then highly probable that rings will rust to cyl wall in any cyl with exh valves closed. If exh valves were open I suspect water would eventually evaporate.
Possible that a bad exhaust elbow let water into the exhaust manifold and it sat there creating a humid environment over a long period of time allowing rust to build up.
Possible engine was not run in a long time and stored in moist environment. Cylinders should be fogged for long term storage.
You may never know exact cause but you can take measurements of your exhaust system to ensure that it is designed properly. Google "installation of waterlift muffler" for details.
(If you don't have waterlift muffler then install one.)
As others have mentioned, replacing all coolers and heat exchangers is a good idea. They should be on a maintenance schedule. I would add that all new hoses should be installed at the same time. I don't think failure would result in cylinder water but failure would leave you dead in the water.
Just keep an eye on your exhaust outlet for any signs of steam.
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 09:11 PM
|
#14
|
Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,565
|
Greetings,
Mr. cd. I have purchased parts for our Lehman's (120HP) from both American Diesel and Bomac.
https://americandieselcorp.com/
https://bomacmarine.com/
Just looked up the AD price on the heat exchanger. Oops, you are correct. It has been a while so my $700 guestimate IS low. Apologies. Probably close to a boat buck ($1000) for HE and coolers.
I DID check the Bomac site and they have exhaust elbows on sale for $125 plus several other "spares" that seem to be a good price.
https://bomacmarine.com/marine-sale-parts.html
__________________
RTF
|
|
|
12-10-2019, 09:38 PM
|
#15
|
Guru
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,329
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly
|
Worth checking fredwarner1 on ebay, who sells some Lehman cooling parts. I experienced good pricing and service.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
|
|
|
12-11-2019, 12:33 AM
|
#16
|
Guru
City: Boston
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,609
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK
Worth checking fredwarner1 on ebay, who sells some Lehman cooling parts. I experienced good pricing and service.
|
logandiesel and onestudebakeravanti also sell Ford Lehman products on EBay. Search for Ford Lehman Diesel.
ebasicpower for velvet drive parts.
|
|
|
10-25-2022, 06:08 PM
|
#17
|
Newbie
City: newport news
Vessel Name: Alvito
Vessel Model: Albin 36
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 1
|
A few years ago when I bought my albin I talked to guys at American diesel and ask them things that I should know about the engine. One thing that they pointed out was that the exhaust Water trap should be immediately after the riser and not back under the berth where the exhaust exits the boat. Apparently they put the water trap in backwards when they built the boat. He said if you put a lot of weight back aft in the stern but there’s a chance of water would back up through the exhaust pipe into the engine.
|
|
|
10-25-2022, 06:27 PM
|
#18
|
Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,565
|
Greetings,
Re: Post #17. Welcome aboard.
__________________
RTF
|
|
|
10-25-2022, 07:26 PM
|
#19
|
Guru
City: .
Vessel Name: GOTCHA
Vessel Model: Hatteras 58 LRC
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,103
|
Welcome aboard
__________________
Captain F. Lee - R.P.E.
USCG 200 GT Master
|
|
|
10-25-2022, 07:27 PM
|
#20
|
Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
|
I had an Albin 40 where the drop from the manifold to the water lift muffler was not enough (less than may recommended numbers for engines/gensets)
I also but a loop from the coolers to the water injection port on the elbow all the way to the engine room ceiling to prevent any siphoning.
I also made sure the run and loop height of the exhaust out of the water lift muffler was as recommended to prevent backflooding in stern currents or wave action through the transom exhaust port.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Trawler Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|