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Old 07-25-2020, 04:59 AM   #161
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At some point I believe you indicated N was behind schedule, then indicated later that things were progressing quickly. At this stage, when do you expect your boat to arrive in North America?

Right, there were some issue at the yard causing slow progress, but that has been resolved and they are hopping along right on schedule now. Launch in Taiwan is expected in October, but is also dependent on having a booking on a transport ship. The boat launches, sea trials, then goes directly to get loaded on the ship, so they won't launch until about 2 weeks ahead of shipment. I then expect to see the boat in Florida (where we are commissioning) some time in December.
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Old 07-25-2020, 05:03 AM   #162
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GoldKey asked about the layout, and a drawing will surely describe it better than me. Attached is the GA (general arrangement) of the boat. There have been a few subsequent changes, but this is pretty close.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 6837 GA REV 8-pch.pdf (2.28 MB, 169 views)
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Old 07-25-2020, 08:22 AM   #163
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GoldKey asked about the layout, and a drawing will surely describe it better than me. Attached is the GA (general arrangement) of the boat. There have been a few subsequent changes, but this is pretty close.

Absolutely Impressive, Twistedtree!
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:14 PM   #164
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Awesome, Thankyou!


Very interesting. Maybe my lack of experience/Knowledge, but not seen that Pilothouse layout before.
If I read the drawing correctly, the Pilot House has a "Watch Bunk", and a head but no shower?
The one thing that I know, is that you guys have had Tanglewood and put a lot of water under that keel to know what worked, and what you want for this boat.


What an amazing experience, and one that I hope and dream I get the chance to replicate...
In the interim, I am living vicariously thru you!
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Old 07-28-2020, 01:24 PM   #165
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Awesome, Thankyou!


Very interesting. Maybe my lack of experience/Knowledge, but not seen that Pilothouse layout before.
If I read the drawing correctly, the Pilot House has a "Watch Bunk", and a head but no shower?
The one thing that I know, is that you guys have had Tanglewood and put a lot of water under that keel to know what worked, and what you want for this boat.


What an amazing experience, and one that I hope and dream I get the chance to replicate...
In the interim, I am living vicariously thru you!

I think our pilot house layout is a first. I think all others are a day head + desk in t port aft corner and a jump bed behind the settee, or a captain's cabin with a more complete 3/4 bath. The layout details vary a lot for the captain's cabin & head, but all provide the same two things.


The pilot house is where everyone hangs out when you are underway, so we wanted to make it as spacious as possible. No matter how we sliced it, we couldn't fit a cabin without unduly compromising the pilot house hang-out space, no we nixed the cabin. Then it came down to optimizing the space while keeping a day head and a jump bed. By swapping the location of the two (head aft of the settee, and jump bed in the port aft corner) from their more common locations, the jump bad became much easier to get in and out of, the space below the jump bed became easier to access, and the space below the settee became easier to access. Plus we got almost complete 360 deg visibility. It was a win-win all around.
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Old 07-28-2020, 01:56 PM   #166
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Makes sense.
One of my fav videos on Youtube the the "Ivanhoe" N76 story of Tookie(Sp), and the shakedown voyage with his kids and grand kids.
The scene that warms my heart when they are all in the pilothouse, watching the progress.
That's my dream of perfection, and where I'd be, even if I was not piloting the boat.


Unless I am mistaken, it looks like when the N68 is ordered with the APH, the Galley is on the starboard side. With the FPH, it seems to be on the Port side.
I understand that the is no difference in size, but the Starboard side galley, always looks bigger than the port side galley.


I am also intrigued to know if the APH is 'much" nice riding that the FPH?
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Old 11-06-2020, 11:06 PM   #167
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so when is the expected delivery date?
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Old 11-07-2020, 11:09 AM   #168
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so when is the expected delivery date?

She launches in about 12 hrs in Taiwan, and will undergo a couple weeks testing, sea trials, and fixing of any issues. ETA Seattle is December 14. I can't wait.
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Old 11-07-2020, 11:18 AM   #169
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Are you still in Taiwan? How was/is the visit?
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Old 11-07-2020, 11:24 AM   #170
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Amazing vessel. Congratulations. Having done a new build know how many decisions are involved and the amount of work on the part of the owners. Wondering how was your experience? There’s a persistent internet rant from an individual who was most displeased by his Nordhavn build experience and aftercare to resolve the issues. Did you have any bumps in the road so far?
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Old 11-07-2020, 11:59 AM   #171
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Are you still in Taiwan? How was/is the visit?

No, the trip fell through about an hour before boarding the plane. It was quite the saga that I'm glad is over and done.


My focus had instead been on "remote" inspections via Skype, photos, and email. We have found and fixed a number of things which is of course the goal. I'm cautiously optimistic that it will be 80%-90% as effective as being there. The measure will be how many issues creep through that I would have caught in person. But at the moment I'm feeling pretty good about it.


My real focus has been on things that are much better fixed by the yard crew vs little things that are easy to correct in Seattle. For example, we asked for pictures of the dinette and pilot house tables (they were packed away for transport and final install in commissioning). They were high gloss finish rather than satin as requested. 24 hrs later they were fixed, and perfectly match the rest of the woodwork. I also spotted several pumps that were hard mounted, but supposed to be on rubber isolation mounts. Depending on how much slack there is with hoses, that can be an easy fix, or a total PIA. Better to have the yard do it.
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Old 11-07-2020, 12:26 PM   #172
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Amazing vessel. Congratulations. Having done a new build know how many decisions are involved and the amount of work on the part of the owners. Wondering how was your experience? There’s a persistent internet rant from an individual who was most displeased by his Nordhavn build experience and aftercare to resolve the issues. Did you have any bumps in the road so far?

Yes, Cantoni is bitter and vengeful. It's really unbecoming. He was the ultimate buyer of the 120 (the original buyer bailed out when 2008 hit), and it turned into a big fight between PAE and him. A big element in the whole thing is that he got nailed by the Canadian tax authorities who demanded tax on the boat. His claim against PAE was that he never "accepted" the boat, and hence never took ownership, which conveniently would solve his tax problem. It ended up in court and the judge/jury found in PAE's favor on everything. But Cantoni continues to poke PAE at every opportunity.


Anyway, I think success building a boat with PAE (and probably others) is all about your attitude. If you can be collaborative, it works quite well. If you stand around a yell, it doesn't work so well. But I have never found yelling to be an effective management technique in any field.


The boats are all hand built from logs, barrels of resin, and blocks of stainless steel, and every boat is different. So it's not like ordering a car, and rather more like building a custom home, except much harder because you are also building all the city infrastructure to support the home.


I enjoy the process, but it's a lot of work, but mostly because I want stuff done a particular way. I know lots of people who basically fill out the order, then pick up the boat when it's done. That works fine, but you get things the way the yard wants to build it, not the way you might want.



Where things get into trouble is when a buyer thinks they are buying a car and that they will take the keys and run off across the ocean. That kind of predictability and reliability only comes when you build the same thing, over and over again, perfecting it with each iteration. But that's counter to the definition of a semi-custom boat. You need to shake it out for a while before it becomes a rock solid, reliable boat.
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Old 11-07-2020, 01:14 PM   #173
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Sounds like time well spent. The 2 week quarantine may have been less-than-productive.

I hope your timeline stays on track, and the commissioning can reach full-speed after the holidays.

What are your near-term (6 months or so) plans with the boat after delivery?
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Old 11-07-2020, 02:38 PM   #174
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Sounds like time well spent. The 2 week quarantine may have been less-than-productive.

I hope your timeline stays on track, and the commissioning can reach full-speed after the holidays.

What are your near-term (6 months or so) plans with the boat after delivery?

Our cruising plans are Alaska, and BC whenever it opens. But I expect that will be a long time still with 135,000 new Covid cases yesterday in the US. My hope is that by fall things will have improved enough to be welcome back.


Once the world has reliably reopened, then we will assess our next destination. Until a couple of months ago the plan was to commission in Florida and work our way to Europe. But that's not happening, and we don't want to be stuck cruising the eastern US. We'd much rather cruise Alaska if we are confined to the US, so we switched to Seattle.
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Old 11-07-2020, 03:07 PM   #175
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We had literally hundreds of emails and multiple back and forth with the builder. Of interest many of the things we asked for were incorporated in subsequent boats as base not options. Think people who don’t have that level of involvement miss out. Beyond issues of money it’s never really their boat and they never get the level of “dinghy factor” you will have. “That’s my boat and she was done just the way I wanted”. Have too much fun. Hope to cross paths and have a gam.
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Old 11-07-2020, 03:25 PM   #176
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I may have missed it, but have you selected a name yet?
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Old 11-07-2020, 05:28 PM   #177
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I may have missed it, but have you selected a name yet?

After much debate and consideration, we decide to name it "Tanglewood". Same as our last three boats....
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Old 11-07-2020, 06:03 PM   #178
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Yes, Cantoni is bitter and vengeful. It's really unbecoming. He was the ultimate buyer of the 120 (the original buyer bailed out when 2008 hit), and it turned into a big fight between PAE and him. A big element in the whole thing is that he got nailed by the Canadian tax authorities who demanded tax on the boat. His claim against PAE was that he never "accepted" the boat, and hence never took ownership, which conveniently would solve his tax problem. It ended up in court and the judge/jury found in PAE's favor on everything. But Cantoni continues to poke PAE at every opportunity.


Anyway, I think success building a boat with PAE (and probably others) is all about your attitude. If you can be collaborative, it works quite well. If you stand around a yell, it doesn't work so well. But I have never found yelling to be an effective management technique in any field.


The boats are all hand built from logs, barrels of resin, and blocks of stainless steel, and every boat is different. So it's not like ordering a car, and rather more like building a custom home, except much harder because you are also building all the city infrastructure to support the home.


I enjoy the process, but it's a lot of work, but mostly because I want stuff done a particular way. I know lots of people who basically fill out the order, then pick up the boat when it's done. That works fine, but you get things the way the yard wants to build it, not the way you might want.



Where things get into trouble is when a buyer thinks they are buying a car and that they will take the keys and run off across the ocean. That kind of predictability and reliability only comes when you build the same thing, over and over again, perfecting it with each iteration. But that's counter to the definition of a semi-custom boat. You need to shake it out for a while before it becomes a rock solid, reliable boat.
I think anyone considering a Nordhavn should read threads like yours. PAE did make mistakes with Cantoni but they won the suit and that tells you something about his case. He had built Nordhavn's before. One of the frequent references in his contract was "Like Westport." If I walked into Westport and said I wanted them to build like Nordhavn, they're throw me out and I mean that literally. The more Cantoni rants, the more I want to come to Nordhavn's side and ignore anything wrong they did.

Each builder has their way of working. I'd be totally a wreck by the delays you've encountered, but I absolutely know that is to be expected on a Nordhavn. I'd have to let someone else handle it for me. Nordhavn and Westport are both technically semi-custom as the hulls are standard models. However, in real spirit, Westport is a Production Yacht and Nordhavn more a custom Trawler. You select every piece of equipment on a Nordhavn. You move things around. You design along the way, not all in advance.

I offer these observations not as criticism of Nordhavn, but facts of a build. Incidentally, I know someone taking delivery of a Hatteras in December, 15 months late. I consider Hatteras a great company but dealing with their scheduling would really annoy me.

With Nordhavn you won't end up with a production boat. It will look like others but it will be very different inside. This boat will be your boat, your design, your preferences, your boat. Building another way you would be robbed of a lot of what you enjoy, your personal involvement in design, and your involvement in commissioning. You get real pleasure out of building. I build to get an end product. I'm getting a boat built right now but I have people there who work for me, rather than myself. We selected all arrangements and all interior details up front and that was our participation.

I'm reminded of N4061 building his Helmsman. Omg, if I was the builder, he would have driven me crazy with all his changes. However, it all made sense as he'd previously built Nordhavn's and was doing it similarly.

To everyone, know your builder and accept their methods of doing business, both strengths and weaknesses. They aren't going to change just for you. The vast majority of people who build Nordhavn's are very happy with them. They're pretty much an open book. They meet requirements like being a stable company and one with proven quantity. If they're late you shouldn't be surprised or angry. Just work to get them as soon as you can.

It reminds me a bit of people who get married and their spouse is exactly as they were when dating and they don't like it. You fell in love with them, married them for who they were, and divorce them for remaining who they are.

Know your builder and know yourself. I think you'll end up with an incredible boat and be very happy.
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Old 11-07-2020, 06:04 PM   #179
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After much debate and consideration, we decide to name it "Tanglewood". Same as our last three boats....
Wifey B: Duh. Are you adding a roman numeral or just going plain?
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Old 11-07-2020, 06:33 PM   #180
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Wifey B: Duh. Are you adding a roman numeral or just going plain?

No, we did that once with Tanglewood II, but then stopped.
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