KK 42 Insurance Estimates

[Bwester]

We have made an offer on a KK42 that has been accepted and we are preparing for the survey process over the next few weeks. I have to be honest with the group here and take all the “what the hell’s were you thinking” that will come my way. It’s just when you know you don’t have all that many years to enjoy retirement with semi decent health you go for it as we have. We have ZERO experience other than a three day class we took at Anacortes on a Nordic Tug 42 last week. At least we got single screw experience in the wind. We plan on starting out by learning the ropes in the San Diego area hopefully under the tutelage of a good Captain or teacher. What I need is any recommendations and costs estimates on insurance and coverages that the group would recommend. It will be a 1985 KK 42 with stabilizers, bow thruster, 135 Hp Lehman and 8 KW Onan generator are the basics. I know there will probably be some insurance requirements on hours under a Captain‘s eye. Other than that not sure what else to expect. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[BogCollector]

I will be starting out soon with nearly the same experience. Hopefully with a similar type boat. KK is on my short list, but I'm not ready to buy yet. My wife and I are looking at classes in safe boat handling, navigation, system maintenance and more on the Texas coast. I've got my Chapman's and I'm reading through that every day. Learning charts and above all, searching Trawlerforum and lurking.
Have fun!

 

[jhall767]

You may want to ask your surveyor if they can provide an "insurance" survey for you at the same time. When I bought my boat everything was declared to be seaworthy but the survey had many recommendations. The insurance company wanted me to sign off that all items on the survey had been taken care of. Well I didn't really care that the garbage disposal was loud or that the trim tab indicator didn't work.

I ended up with Allstate. They already had my auto and home and they had no problem issuing the insurance.

 

[Pau Hana]

We have made an offer on a KK42 that has been accepted and we are preparing for the survey process over the next few weeks. I have to be honest with the group here and take all the “what the hell’s were you thinking” that will come my way. It’s just when you know you don’t have all that many years to enjoy retirement with semi decent health you go for it as we have. We have ZERO experience other than a three day class we took at Anacortes on a Nordic Tug 42 last week. At least we got single screw experience in the wind. We plan on starting out by learning the ropes in the San Diego area hopefully under the tutelage of a good Captain or teacher. What I need is any recommendations and costs estimates on insurance and coverages that the group would recommend. It will be a 1985 KK 42 with stabilizers, bow thruster, 135 Hp Lehman and 8 KW Onan generator are the basics. I know there will probably be some insurance requirements on hours under a Captain‘s eye. Other than that not sure what else to expect. Any help would be appreciated.

Greetings!

This is becoming more and more common, as boat sales are off the charts unlike anything I've seen in 20 years of insuring boats.

Experience is crucial, in my opinion, when moving from a smaller boat or zero experience to a larger boat. There are insurers that will offer coverage without any type of training; to me, this is akin to putting a non commercial driver behind the wheel of a semi truck and letting them out on the road. They may be able to get the rig moving, but they still lack the skillset to safely operate the truck.

Further, policies that offer coverage to first time large boat owners may be severely restrictive in coverage- this is often not discovered until after a claim occurs.

Think of it this way- a vessel owner is asking an insurance company to cover a vessel for a minuscule fraction of the value of the vessel, and expect the company to pay any claims that may occur. At the same time, insurance is not an ATM or slot machine to use due to operator incompetence. The insurer simply wants to ensure that the vessel owner is basically competent in the safe navigation and operation of the vessel, and requiring training under the tutelage of a USCG licensed skipper helps to allay those concerns. This is only reasonable and logical.

I understand that this means additional cost for the insured, but in the long run, it can pay off in zero claims and a better operator.

I can assist with insurance estimates and policies, but I felt it critical to address the training concern up front.

Pete

 

[Bwester]

Thanks Pete for your input. That is why I indicated in my question I knew there would be a certain number Of hours with a Captain requirement. I would hope that the mentality of a safe, older, competent, law abiding, defensive auto driver would be the same attributes that would be applied to the operation of a boat. I know I have a lot to learn and that realization is a good thing in my opinion. I worked for over 15 years for CIGNA Property and Casualty running their data center. I understand how the insurance game works. You have your pool of careless know-it-all’s that drive up the premiums for the law abiding diligent safe drivers out there. That doesn’t mean a careful driver will not ever have an accident or claim, but I bet the correlation of safe knowledgeable auto driver closely translates to safe knowledgeable boater, of course with proper training,?

 

[Pau Hana]

Thanks Pete for your input. That is why I indicated in my question I knew there would be a certain number Of hours with a Captain requirement. I would hope that the mentality of a safe, older, competent, law abiding, defensive auto driver would be the same attributes that would be applied to the operation of a boat. I know I have a lot to learn and that realization is a good thing in my opinion. I worked for over 15 years for CIGNA Property and Casualty running their data center. I understand how the insurance game works. You have your pool of careless know-it-all’s that drive up the premiums for the law abiding diligent safe drivers out there. That doesn’t mean a careful driver will not ever have an accident or claim, but I bet the correlation of safe knowledgeable auto driver closely translates to safe knowledgeable boater, of course with proper training,?

Spot on, good sir! Part of the quote process is building a resume of experience (ownership and operational); this will be a determining factor as to how many hours of training might be required.

There is a correlation between safe driving and safe boat handling, but it is a minor factor (short of reckless or DUI type infractions). The added dynamics of a lack of brakes, the action of wind, tides, and current, on the boat, depth
and height, and more make boating its own unique animal to conquer.

 

[Ventana]

Just to give you an idea, I think we pay about $1200 a year for our KK42. That covers full surveyed value plus personal effects since we live aboard. We did struggle a bit finding insurance, not because of boating experience but because of the age of the vessel.

 

[Comodave]

Some insurance companies will not insure boats over 20 years old. I would indeed call several insurance companies and ask them what they require as to boat and the operator as well. Most will require you to have some sort of training. We are with Boat/US and have been for 25+ years.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

There are two types of insurance for older boats. Good insurance (expensive) and not so good insurance (sometimes even cheap). I have elected to go with not so good insurance for a couple reasons.

I own my boat free and clear and it isn't worth an awfully lot. I can afford the loss. I am on the Great lakes which is also cheaper. Although my coverage is not the best, it has good liability coverage. Damage to other boats, guests and environmental damage are covered. It satisfies the marina owner. No survey was required to bind the insurance.

It is with American Family. Boat U.S. offers better insurance but more expensive.

Mine is a couple hundred a year. High quality insurance will be a couple thousand a year. The choice is yours.

pete

 

[Pau Hana]

There are two types of insurance for older boats. Good insurance (expensive) and not so good insurance (sometimes even cheap). I have elected to go with not so good insurance for a couple reasons.

I own my boat free and clear and it isn't worth an awfully lot. I can afford the loss. I am on the Great lakes which is also cheaper. Although my coverage is not the best, it has good liability coverage. Damage to other boats, guests and environmental damage are covered. It satisfies the marina owner. No survey was required to bind the insurance.

It is with American Family. Boat U.S. offers better insurance but more expensive.

Mine is a couple hundred a year. High quality insurance will be a couple thousand a year. The choice is yours.

pete

Risk tolerance is certainly a factor in insurance- but adequate coverage does not necessarily mean exponentially higher costs. Generally there is only a 15% difference between liability only and complete hull coverage.

Liability only coverage (this means the vessel value is not covered) should include liability, a separate pollution sublimit, plus salvage and wreck removal.

Hull coverage includes the above plus coverage for the hull and machinery, medical, personal erects, and more.