Access

[FatBear]

We may be buying a Kadey-Krogen 42 soon. It depends on a few things, one of which is access.

Currently the boat is backed into a slip, so you step daintily from the dock to the swim platform and through the transom gate. Easy. But we can't keep it in this slip and most other slips have the angled corners so we probably would not be able to back the swim step right up to the dock.

There is a gate in the railing opposite the pilothouse door. But that is way high above the dock. For our own slip I can make a set of stairs leading up to that gate, but when we go elsewhere - fuel dock, pumpout, visiting another marina, etc. - those steps will be left behind.

Neither of us is young and spry. We do not want to just climb over the gunnel where it is lower and jump down onto the dock. I don't mean jump across while the boat is moving, I mean jump down at all even with the boat perfectly positioned. My wife broke her arm last summer and it took months to heal. We don't want to go through that again.

So I am curious how others get on and off the boat when mooring, leaving, fueling, etc. when away from your home slip.

Thanks.

 

[rslifkin]

We're a reasonably tall boat to step off from the side as well. We keep a folding step stool (2 steps) against the back wall of a closet for travel. If we're somewhere with low docks, we pull out the stool and can just lower it down to the dock before stepping off (if needing to get off while coming in, it's a bit of a hop down).

 

[Codger2]

We may be buying a Kadey-Krogen 42 soon. It depends on a few things, one of which is access.


So I am curious how others get on and off the boat when mooring, leaving, fueling, etc. when away from your home slip.

Since access to the KK is definitely a big source of concern, you may be better off with a boat that mitigates that concern. (I'm not knocking a KK but have had similar thoughts as I approached 80!)

 

[psneeld]

Have had several boats with swim platform access with corners in the slips. Never been an issue but I see where it "might" be.


Most boats I have cruised bring some sort of steps with then for all kinds of situations where direct access is not available.

 

[Russell Clifton]

I don't think that backing into a slip is that common most of the time. If you were going into a marina and asked for a 42 foot slip and told them bow in, you would be fine. Or maybe ask for a 45 foot slip. Perhaps if you were assigned a permanent slip with angled corners they would let you remove them. Much of the time in the PNW were are side tied to a long dock so that is not so much of a issue.

 

[rslifkin]

I don't think that backing into a slip is that common most of the time. If you were going into a marina and asked for a 42 foot slip and told them bow in, you would be fine. Or maybe ask for a 45 foot slip. Perhaps if you were assigned a permanent slip with angled corners they would let you remove them. Much of the time in the PNW were are side tied to a long dock so that is not so much of a issue.

At least on the East Coast, traditionally power boats back into slips, sailboats go bow in. Of course, there are exceptions and there's no rule about it. Personally, I go with however the boat fits better in the slip and consider anything that makes getting on/off easier one way vs the other. At my home slip, we back in as it puts the preferred side of the boat to the dock, is easier to get on/off and the boat fits in the slip better that way.

 

[FatBear]

Would there be any structural issues with cutting a gate in the gunnels? Has anyone else done that? Please note: I'm talking specifically about the Kadey-Krogen 42. I know that many boats do have them. It's a question of how structural the bulwarks are.

Thanks.

 

[psneeld]

The good news is if fixed docks the finger piers can be short so no matter what you have to work out getting on board. Finger piers on floats tend to be a bit longer and the shorter ones probably don't have the corner filler pieces.

That is my general experience....not a given for all marinas on the East coast.

 

[FatBear]

I am on the west coast.

 

[Comodave]

Our last boat was a sundeck model. It was way above the dock usually. We had a ladder that mounted into a couple of brackets on each side. Then it was pretty easy to go up or down to the sundeck. We had a safety line that we would attach from the ladder to the handrail so that the ladder didn’t float to the bottom if it came off the brackets.

 

[FatBear]

I like that expression: "float to the bottom".

So how well does that ladder work when mooring? (Also, your particular configuration would only work if I can cut a gate in the bulwarks.)

Thanks.

 

[psneeld]

When mooring....like on a mooring ball?

 

[Comodave]

I like that expression: "float to the bottom".

So how well does that ladder work when mooring? (Also, your particular configuration would only work if I can cut a gate in the bulwarks.)

Thanks.

Everything floats, some things float on top of the water and some things float on the bottom of the water…

It works fine. Don’t know if it would work in your configuration or not.

 

[FatBear]

When mooring....like on a mooring ball?

Of course not. To a dock. I know there are some people and maybe some regions who may use the term more colloquially, but in general mooring is when you attach your boat to something else that is fixed. That something else can be a mooring buoy, but it can also be a piling, a dock, a quay, etc. The alternative to mooring is anchoring. That's when you drop your own anchor. Yes, I guess I could have said "docking", but I can't quite shake my tug boat training.

 

[rwidman]

If the finger piers have the angle where they attach to the dock, just don't back in as far. You can step off the finger pier onto the side of your swim platform rather than off the dock onto the rear of the swim platform.

Where I typically boat, there is enough tidal current that I don't dock within less than a foot to eighteen inches of the dock because I don't want my swim platform hitting the dock when current and/or waves and wakes move the boat.

Stepping onto the side of the swim platform from the finger pier is simple because it's only a fender width from the finger pier.

BTW: We are not "spry" either.

 

[FatBear]

Many boats are like that, but not the KK42. It has rounded sides and the transom and swim platform are much narrower than the full 15' beam of the boat. It is nowhere near the finger when docked. I checked.

Perhaps we could step diagonally onto the angle, but that would mean having the corners of the swim platform dangerously close to the angles (or having too long of a step.) I'd be afraid that a wake would place one of those corners above or below the angle and break the boat.

 

[FatBear]

At least on the East Coast, traditionally power boats back into slips, sailboats go bow in. Of course, there are exceptions and there's no rule about it. Personally, I go with however the boat fits better in the slip and consider anything that makes getting on/off easier one way vs the other. At my home slip, we back in as it puts the preferred side of the boat to the dock, is easier to get on/off and the boat fits in the slip better that way.

I would prefer to back in because it makes access easy enough for a 90 year old. Step off the dock onto the swim platform and step through the gate. But I would prefer to spend time on the boat with the bow pointed in because that would put the nice, large outdoor living room of a cockpit out where we can enjoy the water views rather than in where we'll just see everyone clomping up and down the dock.

So we will enter the home slip bow-first and make a decent boarding stairway. It's when we are at another dock that the problem of access from the side arises.

Frankly, we're about to pass on the boat. It is far nicer than anything I've ever had or will have. But it's bigger than we need or want in addition to the access problems. And it's really a long distance cruising boat, not just an occasional short cruise boat. I know people who have taken Hobie Adventure sailing kayaks to Catalina Island from San Diego. You don't really need a 42' ocean cruising boat to do that and we're not likely to go farther (unless we find a boat to buy that is farther away and choose to sail it home.)

 

[dhays]

https://danfender.com/c/products/fender-step


I used these on my sailboat with a high freeboard and now use them on my NP43. I'm not sure of the height of the deck outside my pilothouse, but it is much too high to step or jump off. With the fender step, it is pretty easy for me. Granted, I have long legs. However, I'm no longer thin and the Fender Step handles my 6'2" 225 lbs without a problem. Not sure if that would solve the problem or not.

 

[FatBear]

Well those look handy. Thanks!

 

[Greg S]

Well those look handy. Thanks!

I've seen a two step version that may work better, but I don't know who makes it.

 

[FatBear]

It looks like the same people make the 2Step model:
https://danfender.com/c/products/fender2step

And then someone else went them one better with a 3 step model:
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/plastimo--2-step-ladder-fender-blue--16244956

It says 2 step, but I count three.

And then they go on from there:

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/plastimo--3-step-ladder-fender-blue--16244964?recordNum=7

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/plastimo--4-step-ladder-fender-blue--16244972?recordNum=44

It's crazy. Pretty soon they'll be hanging these off the sides of ships instead of Jacob's ladders. Except that I don't see any hand-holds. You'd have to have the hands of a gorilla to climb it and then you probably wouldn't need it.

 

[Bwester]

Not a Problem

As Owners of a 1985 KK 42 for a year now my wife and I (late late 60’s) have been doing the “sit on the rail, straddle the rail, swing leg over the rail” routine for a year now with no problems. We tried a step on the dock with a stool on the boat deck of the side walkway but it is much harder to step up, brace your self on the upper deck overhang, DUCK your head as you step over the rail and hope you get your foot on the stool as you step down. The sit on the rail and swing a leg over one at the time routine is easy, especially if you mount a grab rail on either of the two wide fiberglass upper deck supports. The deck of the boat and the dock / pier height are about the same so there is no drastic step down or up when going over the rail.

As for stepping on the back swim platform from the dock method, that only works if you can step directly from the dock to a VERY CLOSELY tied boat because of the hour glass shaped transom. The problem with that we have found is that ropes stretch, and water conditions change, even when docked. Because of this you will definitely want some bumpers between the swim platform and dock, there goes your close easy step.

Also, I’m sure practice makes perfect and I’m speaking from only one years experience, but, backing a single engine into a tight slip with a tight fairway, with a little wind and current thrown into the equation is, I will say “challenging” . I’m sure there are old salts out there that will say something different, but just a bit of warning especially if you are docking next to that new Nordhaven 47 in a double slip. We were spoiled at first in San Diego having our own exclusive SINGLE slip. That isn’t the case in most places, especially south of the border. We made our way this year from San Diego (calm protected single slip) to Ensenada ( surging, double slip, tight fairways), the to La Paz ( calm protected Marina, double slip, decent sized fairways ).

The KK 42 is very comfortable liveaboard. You can handle the “over the rail leg swing”. It becomes natural. You will be happy with your choice. As for the backing part, practice, practice, practice before attempting in close quarters; and be sure you have a bow thruster at least and a stern thruster would be heaven.

 

[FatBear]

We tried the straddle and swing over method, but my wife is too short. She could do it with some yoga techniques, but will she still be able to do it in ten years as she nears 80? Probably not.

I'd really like to know if it is feasible to cut a gate in the bulwark along the side of the boat without compromising hull strength. In most boats the bulwarks contribute little or nothing to hull strength, but not in all and I don't know about the KK42.

 

[NoKaOi]

I have a KK 39. We usually back in to our slip and every where else as well. It always fits fine even with the corner piece many slips have. It is much easier to load the boat. Also easier for the unsteady to get on or off. Granted we have both bow and stern thrusters so maneuvering isn't an issue. We back it all the way up to the dock. We use Taylormade transom fenders. The gap from swimstep to dock is never more than 1 foot.

https://www.taylormadeproducts.com/products/fenders-and-buoys/transom-fenders

We use 2, one on either side of the center transom door. Granted the ropes tying them on aren't pretty but it functions so well we have accepted the look.

For docking activity we use the side gates at the pilot house doors and a fender step a previous poster mentioned. We also go over the side next to the salon.

 

[Nepidae]

Boat access

Boat access usually depends on the slope of the gunnel going to the bow.

The myriad of boats and people getting on & off will vary widely, but they all depend, as you've found out, on how you are going to store the item onboard as you move.

Our boat has a gate on each side. The port side slope at the gate location allows for a ladder with stand-offs. The Stbd side is a little more fwd and the ladder doesn't fit as well but is still usable. Standoffs built into the ladder provides space for toes.

Multiple tries at this has us using this; (https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--gunwale-mount-ladders--P012868550?recordNum=21).

We use the swim platform for the davits for our dinghy, so unusable for entry or exit. We also like to anchor out so we need a solution that if we decide to anchor out and go swimming we can back onboard.

Since it's a folding ladder we can fold it and lay it against the 'skirts' on the sundeck, behind a chair, to keep it out of the way when not used.

This works well for us, it may not for you.

Good luck.

 

[ranger58sb]

I only read through this quickly... but didn't notice anyone mentioning the Marquipt stairways that can be attached to tall-ish boats. Those might be an easy enough solution, albeit likely not inexpensive.

-Chris

 

[seadancer]

My "old age boat"

I'm old and not that spry, either. I have a Canoe Cove Sedan Bridge that I bought specifically because it is a flat entry through the transom gate off the swim step, and because it has a lower helm With good all around vision for when I can't climb up to the flybridge anymore. Lots of other reasons, too (large, comfortable salon, Caterpillar engines that run great and have enough horsepower to go against the current in the Tacoma Narrows and have super easy access to check oil, etc.) I just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in, because I'm in a similar situation and area and do mostly short cruises.

 

[MVDarlin]

Darlin is an Ocean Alexander 43 flushdeck with starboard entry door at helm. I bought a short wide ladder that hooks over the gunnel but hangs above the dock for access. The rail opens at that spot. The ladder has been rebuilt and modified a few times. It now has nylon pads that don't mar the wood. Cost about $100. They are stowed on the bow while underway.

 

[FatBear]

I only read through this quickly... but didn't notice anyone mentioning the Marquipt stairways that can be attached to tall-ish boats. Those might be an easy enough solution, albeit likely not inexpensive
-Chris

Thanks! I looked and they have a lot of options. All of them would require clambering over the gunnels like monkeys on bungee ropes unless I can cut a door in the bulwarks. If I can cut a door, then their Step-Across product is very similar to what I have been thinking about making and so much more convenient.

But it all "hinges" on my being able to cut a door in the bulwarks at the side of the boat. Probably about midway between those two wide pillars that support the upper deck. So far I have not heard from anyone here or elsewhere on whether that is feasible or not. I emailed Kadey-Krogen, but have not received an answer. I should call them.

 

[Symmetry]

Passerelle

I did not see anyone reference the use of the standard boarding device used in the Med. A passerelle is a walkway or gangway extending from the a boat ( generally stern tied) to the dock. These range from a simple wooden plank to a stainless hydraulic, disappearing device on mega yachts. These can be made of aluminum that is light enough to be taken aboard and stowed manually.