Access

[HiDHo]

We may be buying a Kadey-Krogen 42 soon. It depends on a few things, one of which is access.

Currently the boat is backed into a slip, so you step daintily from the dock to the swim platform and through the transom gate. Easy. But we can't keep it in this slip and most other slips have the angled corners so we probably would not be able to back the swim step right up to the dock.

There is a gate in the railing opposite the pilothouse door. But that is way high above the dock. For our own slip I can make a set of stairs leading up to that gate, but when we go elsewhere - fuel dock, pumpout, visiting another marina, etc. - those steps will be left behind.

Neither of us is young and spry. We do not want to just climb over the gunnel where it is lower and jump down onto the dock. I don't mean jump across while the boat is moving, I mean jump down at all even with the boat perfectly positioned. My wife broke her arm last summer and it took months to heal. We don't want to go through that again.

So I am curious how others get on and off the boat when mooring, leaving, fueling, etc. when away from your home slip.

Thanks.

Mr FatBear I think the sentence “ Neither of us is young and spry” and your wife’s broken arm accident may limit your choice of boats. We cruised a Krogen Manatee 36 for a number of years, they have a large transom gate and port and starboard entrance accesses. The side accesses require a step stool inside the access and Duck your head. Most all floating docks are at a reasonable height for side entry using a step stool inboard others can definitely be a access problem. Your best bet is to survey a marina for the wide array of entry equipment used on different type boats. This may answer your specific needs. Of course having owned a Krogen I’m a it biased. I think the Krogen 42 is an excellent choice but it’s based on you fitting the boat not the other way around.

 

[mvweebles]

Would there be any structural issues with cutting a gate in the gunnels? Has anyone else done that? Please note: I'm talking specifically about the Kadey-Krogen 42. I know that many boats do have them. It's a question of how structural the bulwarks are.

Thanks.

Willard 36's were built with a hull-gate on stbd side only. I had a matching gate cut-into the port side due to configuration of the slip I own. However.....W36 hull is solid fiberglass and quite thick. If memory serves, the KK42 has a cored-hull above waterline. I would think you would need some way of reinforcing the exposed sandwich with solid material.

Peter

 

[Photoman41]

Doesn’t the KK42 have side access doors from the cockpit?

 

[FatBear]

Doors and more

Lets see if I can answer a bunch of these all at once.

I did not see anyone reference the use of the standard boarding device used in the Med. A passerelle is a walkway or gangway extending from the a boat ( generally stern tied) to the dock. These range from a simple wooden plank to a stainless hydraulic, disappearing device on mega yachts. These can be made of aluminum that is light enough to be taken aboard and stowed manually.

I am aware of them, but I don't see them being useful when docked bow-in. Am I missing something?

Mr FatBear I think the sentence “ Neither of us is young and spry” and your wife’s broken arm accident may limit your choice of boats.

That would just be FatBear, thank you. Mr. FatBear was my dad.

There are other issues related to safe use by old people besides just dock access. The reason we continue to consider the KK42 is that it addresses many of them. For example: steps, stairs, and ladders. Many of the boats we've looked at were originally built for wannabe he-men cruising the high seas and fishing for marlin and krakens and such. Ladders up to flybridges are vertical, with minimal if any tread to save your aching arches, and nothing to hold onto but the vertical bars of the ladder. Both of us can do that now. But we are planning for a ten year future which will see my wife passing her 80th birthday on the boat. So ladders like this will probably render the flybridge inaccessible. Indoor steps and stairs are steep on many boats and often involve ducking and various twists and contortions.

The flybridge ladder on the KK42 is not a dramatic staircase, but it is more sloped, has wide rungs to stand on and hand rails. The hatch at the top of the one we're looking at has those piston air assist things to help open the otherwise pretty heavy-looking hatch. Interior steps and stairs are easy to use and look like they will remain easy to use. It does not take a contortionist to use the head or shower. Really the only unstable feeling part of the boat is when you exit the pilothouse and walk down the side deck. The crown of the deck makes the first step awkward. But they are reasonably wide decks and I think my wife will get used to the tilt very quickly. (She does back-country hiking, so is used to uneven surfaces.) If that becomes a problem in the future, she doesn't have to go that way. The boat has options. It seems like a boat that we could grow old on without too much trouble.
Getting it might be the hardest part. It needs to be moved when sold and there are no available slips in San Diego for a boat of that size. (47 to 48 feet overall.) Waiting lists can run into the years.

We cruised a Krogen Manatee 36 for a number of years, they have a large transom gate and port and starboard entrance accesses. The side accesses require a step stool inside the access and Duck your head. Most all floating docks are at a reasonable height for side entry using a step stool inboard others can definitely be a access problem...

Different boats. The KK42 has side gates in the railings which pose no overhead/ducking problems, but a long fall to the dock if you are away from your home slip because they are up next to the pilothouse doors. It has no doors in the side bulwarks, only one in the transom. As someone else pointed out, using a stool to climb over the bulwarks farther aft would result in head bumps. I do not want to be accused of beating my wife, so we'll avoid that!

Willard 36's were built with a hull-gate on stbd side only. I had a matching gate cut-into the port side due to configuration of the slip I own. However.....W36 hull is solid fiberglass and quite thick. If memory serves, the KK42 has a cored-hull above waterline. I would think you would need some way of reinforcing the exposed sandwich with solid material. Peter

I can engineer a door of sufficiently high quality that it will seem appropriate to the KK42. My main concern is whether cutting it out will affect hull integrity. I did get an answer from Kadey-Krogen which I will post when I can figure out how to post photos that don't have URLs. (If that is even possible.)

Doesn’t the KK42 have side access doors from the cockpit?

No. That's partly why this thread exists. There are gates in the railing up next to the pilot house doors, but nothing down nearer to the dock level.

 

[FatBear]

Email from Kadey-Krogen about cutting door in bulwarks.

I asked Kadey-Krogen about cutting a door in the bulwark of the K42 and here is the answer I received:

I received your question about adding a gate to the hull side of your 42. I wouldn’t recommend extending a gate down below the rubrail. What could happen is if the rail hit something near the gate the rail wouldn’t be well supported. What you could do is put in a short gate above the rail so that the rail is still continuous. Here is a photo from a 44 that had something similar just to show you the idea:

It won’t remove the need to step up and over, but would make the step up a little shorter.
​

I replied:

That makes perfect sense. Thank you very much. I will put it to my wife and see how she feels about a short step.
Maybe I could put one of these on the outside of the door, just below the rubrail.

​

And the answer was:

That might work very well. There are several suppliers out there that make boarding accessories that you might even contact and see if they have ideas or something that would work for you. You probably know some suppliers, I’ve had some experience in the distant past with Marquipt https://www.marquipt.com/ and they were pretty helpful.
​

In fact, I got that Side Step photo from the Marquipt site.

So there we seem to have a workable solution. I'm sure we can straddle a lower threshhold than the current almost-waist-high bulwark, especially if we can step out onto a nice sized step that will allow easy dock access.

 

[catalinajack]

I don't think that backing into a slip is that common most of the time. If you were going into a marina and asked for a 42 foot slip and told them bow in, you would be fine. Or maybe ask for a 45 foot slip. Perhaps if you were assigned a permanent slip with angled corners they would let you remove them. Much of the time in the PNW were are side tied to a long dock so that is not so much of a issue.

Even side-tied, one must clambor over the side rail to get on and off the boat.

 

[catalinajack]

As Owners of a 1985 KK 42 for a year now my wife and I (late late 60’s) have been doing the “sit on the rail, straddle the rail, swing leg over the rail” routine for a year now with no problems. We tried a step on the dock with a stool on the boat deck of the side walkway but it is much harder to step up, brace your self on the upper deck overhang, DUCK your head as you step over the rail and hope you get your foot on the stool as you step down. The sit on the rail and swing a leg over one at the time routine is easy, especially if you mount a grab rail on either of the two wide fiberglass upper deck supports. The deck of the boat and the dock / pier height are about the same so there is no drastic step down or up when going over the rail.



As for stepping on the back swim platform from the dock method, that only works if you can step directly from the dock to a VERY CLOSELY tied boat because of the hour glass shaped transom. The problem with that we have found is that ropes stretch, and water conditions change, even when docked. Because of this you will definitely want some bumpers between the swim platform and dock, there goes your close easy step.



Also, I’m sure practice makes perfect and I’m speaking from only one years experience, but, backing a single engine into a tight slip with a tight fairway, with a little wind and current thrown into the equation is, I will say “challenging” . I’m sure there are old salts out there that will say something different, but just a bit of warning especially if you are docking next to that new Nordhaven 47 in a double slip. We were spoiled at first in San Diego having our own exclusive SINGLE slip. That isn’t the case in most places, especially south of the border. We made our way this year from San Diego (calm protected single slip) to Ensenada ( surging, double slip, tight fairways), the to La Paz ( calm protected Marina, double slip, decent sized fairways ).



The KK 42 is very comfortable liveaboard. You can handle the “over the rail leg swing”. It becomes natural. You will be happy with your choice. As for the backing part, practice, practice, practice before attempting in close quarters; and be sure you have a bow thruster at least and a stern thruster would be heaven.

That swing over the rail routine is a definite minus for the KK42. However, if one is agile, the pluses of a KK42 are many. Unfortunately, given that most owners are retired or retirement age, I would think this to be a problem for many. I could do it easily, my wife not so much.

 

[kapnd]

I’m sure your door can be successfully installed wherever you need it to be, and extend clear down to the deck, as it should.
It may require some reinforcement, but if built with wedge shaped sides, will be adequately strong to resist all but the heartiest of piling scrapes, which would cause damage, even without the door.
I’ve seen some transom doors that had steps built into the inside of them and hinged at the bottom, and steps and fish ramps cut into the deck too.
Use your imagination, and make it happen!

 

[OldDan1943]

Or a gangway ??

 

[FatBear]

Or a gangway ??

But you have to get on and off of it without clambering over the bulwarks. They are pretty high bulwarks on the KK42. Higher than my wife's or my "inseam". Hence the desire to cut a door. The deck is similar height above water to most docks, so we wouldn't need anything too fancy if we just had a door in the bulwarks. And I think we've got our parameters pretty well covered on that.

 

[FatBear]

I’m sure your door can be successfully installed wherever you need it to be, and extend clear down to the deck, as it should.
It may require some reinforcement, but if built with wedge shaped sides, will be adequately strong to resist all but the heartiest of piling scrapes, which would cause damage, even without the door.

You are probably right to an extent. There is obviously going to be a level of impact where the door will make the difference between major and minor damage. But at most levels of impact it probably won't make that much difference.

I would, of course, make it wedge shaped or stepped so that any impact on the door is transmitted back into the bulwarks to either side of the door. But keep in mind that right now the rubrail acts as a unitary structure, spreading the load out away from any impact. A strike to the rubrail right next to the wedge-shaped door could potentially do damage to the hull because it would not be able to spread the impact onto the door.

Another problem with cutting the door all the way to the deck is that the rubrail is pretty thick. It's not just a paste-on. Some pretty fancy hinges would probably be required to make it work and still look good when closed.

I’ve seen some transom doors that had steps built into the inside of them and hinged at the bottom, and steps and fish ramps cut into the deck too.

I thought about hinging it at the bottom and making it act as a step. That would negate the hinge problem stated above and I wouldn't need to add an additional step. Problem is, I'd worry about the door slamming down onto the dock if the boat rocked.

Use your imagination, and make it happen!

Got any pictures? It might reduce the strain on my imagination.

Thanks.

 

[OldDan1943]

But you have to get on and off of it without clambering over the bulwarks. They are pretty high bulwarks on the KK42. Higher than my wife's or my "inseam". Hence the desire to cut a door. The deck is similar height above water to most docks, so we wouldn't need anything too fancy if we just had a door in the bulwarks. And I think we've got our parameters pretty well covered on that.

I put a stern cockpit door and a stbd door in the cockpit of my N46. mounting hardware for the 6ft carbon fiber gangway. Sure resolved a lot of problems.
Sorry, I do not recall the manufacture of the gangway.
It was real basic, a slab of carbon fiber. The mounting hardware was very stout.

 

[JimW]

Ladders were a concern for us when looking for a trawler . . . A 3 step
Maximum was on the list . . . While today not entirely necessary, each day that goes by we appreciate that more . . . The swim platform with the large entry steps was and has been extremely nice, especially when morning on floating docks . . .

 

[Var Korall]

Google 'Boarding ramps for boats'. Lots of ideas and pictures.

 

[Peter B]

Fatbear, that door in the side, down to, but not through, the rub-rail looks a real goer. Then one of those neat fold-down steps, and you're good to go. A door cut in like that, properly done & chamfered, and reinforced all round will not compromise the strength of the hull at all. Win-win all round I'd say.

 

[catalinajack]

Google 'Boarding ramps for boats'. Lots of ideas and pictures.

Boarding ramps attached to the boat work best on floating docks, not so much on fixed docks especially where tidal changes are larger. They are also heavy and sometimes difficult to deploy. We have an almost brand new set of Marquipt stairs that are rarely used because of this issue. Instead, we sometimes use a Little Giant folding ladder that we set on the finger pier when we can which is not always. Deploying the Marquipt just for an overnight or two just isn't worth the bother.