Wood Boat - Insurance and Pending dilemna

[Comodave]

And I actually want quality insurance so that maybe I don’t loose everything if there is an incident…

 

[ksanders]

And I actually want quality insurance so that maybe I don’t loose everything if there is an incident…

price is the least important aspect of insurance.

Of course get your best price, but get it for the risk level you are comfortable assuming.

 

[Comodave]

price is the least important aspect of insurance.

Of course get your best price, but get it for the risk level you are comfortable assuming.

+1.

 

[Simi 60]

Our hull planking is all 2 inch spotted gum
Insanely hard stuff
Big bronze screws hold them in

 

[Simi 60]

A bit of surgery happening now
New timber to the right is a 3 metre section of 150 X 50 hardwood top plank through bolted and caulked with oakum
Then 2 laminations of 150 X 30 hardwood glued with epoxy and fastened with 75mm fasteners
Tomorrow the actual rub rail goes back in, that will be glued and through bolted through everything.
THEN and only then can the deck planks be screwed back in and the ply decks glued down and glassed

 

[psneeld]

Why do you feel Monel fasteners not correct for some boat's wood hull planks... as original fasteners or refastens?

In the 60's I was told by old-time boatwrights that Monel was the best metal screws to use below water wood hull portions. Especially due to its restriction to corrosion/electrolysis.

What makes it incorrect for some [but not all] wooden boat construction?

I'm interested to learn.

It's not what I feel, it's what I have experienced and read through the years.

I guess it's the construction method....Carvel vs lapstrake, solid wood vs plywood planks, rib to plank, cross bottom plank vs keel, size of boat/planking, etc...etc and that galvanized square reacted differently with some woods vs monel or other.....screws are more brittle....etc...etc...

A quick search of nails vs screws for wooden boats gives rough explanations.

I do think many refastenings may have used screws because they "can" be better than in the "old" days because of progress, but still...used in the wrong application or material and it only takes a few to fail to sink a boat.

 

[psneeld]

Years ago we were fishing just a few miles below the El Toro, a wooden party boat that went down in the mouth of the Potomac when a conditions went from flat calm to gale force in a few minutes (the weather forecast warned of the event). I believe planking came loose from the bottom in that instance and several lives were lost.

That was the investigation I mentioned...for those interested in how USCG inspections go, how the industry deals with safety and how simple fishing trips go wrong.....a lot of it wound up on the internet.

Also read about the heroic USCG rescue swimmer in the water in 10 foot steep stuff assisting victims when the USCG boat came down off one and hit him in the head....he kept going and helped save something like 20 more.

 

[Art]

It's not what I feel, it's what I have experienced and read through the years.

I guess it's the construction method....Carvel vs lapstrake, solid wood vs plywood planks, rib to plank, cross bottom plank vs keel, size of boat/planking, etc...etc and that galvanized square reacted differently with some woods vs monel or other.....screws are more brittle....etc...etc...

A quick search of nails vs screws for wooden boats gives rough explanations.

I do think many refastenings may have used screws because they "can" be better than in the "old" days because of progress, but still...used in the wrong application or material and it only takes a few to fail to sink a boat.

Thanks ps! Correct, lots of variables.

I've never read any particularly disparaging text on Monel vs other material for hull fasteners. Then again, I've not looked into nor practiced marine wood working since mid 1970's. My affinity for Monel screw hull fasteners all "stem" [pun intended] from 50's, 60's to mid 70's.

I've not researched and [now, because of posts in this thread] wonder what material and design [still being some sort of metal I guess] fasteners are used today as hull fasteners for wood to wood locations in, on and around hull areas??

 

[psneeld]

Think it still depends on many of the factors I listed above.

Bronze ring nails I see in many boat plans as well as screws for certain members.

But it doesn't mean that some may still prefer other fasteners as the variable demands.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

A bit of surgery happening now
New timber to the right is a 3 metre section of 150 X 50 hardwood top plank through bolted and caulked with oakum
Then 2 laminations of 150 X 30 hardwood glued with epoxy and fastened with 75mm fasteners
Tomorrow the actual rub rail goes back in, that will be glued and through bolted through everything.
THEN and only then can the deck planks be screwed back in and the ply decks glued down and glassed

WOW! That looks like a lot of work. Show us the finished product too please.


I always admire those who have wood boats. A labor of love.

 

[Simi 60]

WOW! That looks like a lot of work.

More than we expected but not much really
An extra week and a bit in hardstand, labour and $1000 in materials
Most of the time was spent in investigative surgery, once we knew how far back it went it started going faster.

Show us the finished product too please

.
She won't be finished on this lift
The decks themselves will be done in epoxy primer, when ALL repairs are done decks up will get sanded and painted.

But deck down will be shiney

I always admire those who have wood boats. A labor of love

.
Yeah, not sure on the love part, certainly not at the moment
But financially we are and always will be waaaaaay in front of a plastic variant offering the same comfort levels.

A bit of foredeck and bulwark repair has been happening as well
We tackled this lot while the paid workers do the side deck, rub rail , antifouling and paint.

 

[BandB]

And introducing another curve to the wood boat issue. Many custom SF's are cold molded as is all of Vicem's line. For those not familiar with the process, it's layers of wood, saturated with epoxy and all in a mold.

 

[Simi 60]

And introducing another curve to the wood boat issue. Many custom SF's are cold molded as is all of Vicem's line. For those not familiar with the process, it's layers of wood, saturated with epoxy and all in a mold.

Also called double diagonal
But, with this, when done correctly, you essentially have a composite boat

 

[BandB]

Also called double diagonal
But, with this, when done correctly, you essentially have a composite boat

Those who promote them say they're the best of both worlds.

 

[Art]

A bit of surgery happening now
New timber to the right is a 3 metre section of 150 X 50 hardwood top plank through bolted and caulked with oakum
Then 2 laminations of 150 X 30 hardwood glued with epoxy and fastened with 75mm fasteners
Tomorrow the actual rub rail goes back in, that will be glued and through bolted through everything.
THEN and only then can the deck planks be screwed back in and the ply decks glued down and glassed

Looks like you're doing a top notch job! Good on ya!!

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Question:

How long can you leave the boat on the hard before planks start to shrink? A friend of mine has a 50ft monk. Its a quick in and out due to the wood shrinking if left out of the water for very wrong.

 

[Simi 60]

Question:

How long can you leave the boat on the hard before planks start to shrink? A friend of mine has a 50ft monk. Its a quick in and out due to the wood shrinking if left out of the water for very wrong.

We usually do two weeks out
This time being longer I am giving her a good hose down, beer in hand as the last job of the day.
She'll be back in soon, all steps are forward.

 

[BandB]

We usually do two weeks out
This time being longer I am giving her a good hose down, beer in hand as the last job of the day.
She'll be back in soon, all steps are forward.

Simi 60 is an outlier, at least as far as the US is concerned. I laugh at those who talked in another thread about not using marinas, but when it came down to it, they were regularly using them, going to them in their dinghies. Simi truly lives on his boat and at anchor and frequents marinas and shore far less frequently than others claiming to live independent of them.

Then we turn to wood. Simi's boat is a fine, well maintained and cared for, wooden boat with a knowledgeable owner who lives on it and also knows what he's doing in regard to protecting and maintaining.

I don't know about owners of wooden boats or about liveaboards in Australia. What I do know is he's very far from the norm in the US and, from what I know, in Europe.

Why am I pointing this out? Partially to praise Simi, but also to warn others. Understand if you hear people talk about living on the hook and being self sufficient and never using marinas, most are not and very few are like he is. And, it would be easy for insurers if all were like him. I'd still want to inspect after the work is done. However, Simi is not typical and for every one like him I've observed, I can show you dozens of wooden boats sunk at the docks on the lake and on the coast. A few are admirers and cultivators of wooden boats, but far more buy wooden boats because they're cheap and with no real idea of the maintenance required or the risks.

Be like Simi and you'll be fine. However, if you're not, wooden boats in your future may well not be practical or insurable.

 

[Comodave]

Simi 60 is an outlier, at least as far as the US is concerned. I laugh at those who talked in another thread about not using marinas, but when it came down to it, they were regularly using them, going to them in their dinghies. Simi truly lives on his boat and at anchor and frequents marinas and shore far less frequently than others claiming to live independent of them.

Then we turn to wood. Simi's boat is a fine, well maintained and cared for, wooden boat with a knowledgeable owner who lives on it and also knows what he's doing in regard to protecting and maintaining.

I don't know about owners of wooden boats or about liveaboards in Australia. What I do know is he's very far from the norm in the US and, from what I know, in Europe.

Why am I pointing this out? Partially to praise Simi, but also to warn others. Understand if you hear people talk about living on the hook and being self sufficient and never using marinas, most are not and very few are like he is. And, it would be easy for insurers if all were like him. I'd still want to inspect after the work is done. However, Simi is not typical and for every one like him I've observed, I can show you dozens of wooden boats sunk at the docks on the lake and on the coast. A few are admirers and cultivators of wooden boats, but far more buy wooden boats because they're cheap and with no real idea of the maintenance required or the risks.

Be like Simi and you'll be fine. However, if you're not, wooden boats in your future may well not be practical or insurable.

Agree 100%. Simi takes good care of his boat and he is very knowledgeable about wood boats.

 

[Simi 60]

Agree 100%. Simi takes good care of his boat and he is very knowledgeable about wood boats.

Let's not get too carried away

I take well enough care of her without going silly.
She ain't going backwards and is slowly going forwards
I know enough to keep on top of it but I wouldn't consider myself very knowledgeable of old timber construction.

But, let me get her over to Thailand and the cash taps will be opened

 

[Comodave]

Well you are way more knowledgeable than me and most I suspect.

 

[Pelonsea]

Can you help me with insurance questions. First year crabber with a deadrise .
pelonsea@yahoo.com