Wood Boat - Insurance and Pending dilemna

[Art]

"Beauty" passed by this weekend!

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by Art

......More and more marinas here won't berth, haul or dry dock them. ................

Why is that?

[tiltrider1]

While rare, some wood boats have gotten so soft that they can’t sit on their keels. As the operator lifts the boat the keel is pushed up through the bottom of the boat. If the operator doesn’t notice this in time the boat becomes damaged. Then you get into a who’s fault is it law suit.

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by tiltrider1

While rare, some wood boats have gotten so soft that they can’t sit on their keels. As the operator lifts the boat the keel is pushed up through the bottom of the boat. If the operator doesn’t notice this in time the boat becomes damaged. Then you get into a who’s fault is it law suit.

Perhaps boat yards should ask to see the last survey, like insurance companies.
Don't haul or offer moorage unless a recent one is produced. We do trust surveyors to find these problems.

[Art]

Originally Posted by Art View Post
......More and more marinas here won't berth, haul or dry dock them. ................

Originally Posted by Soo-Valley

Why is that?

Because they have old Wooden hulls.

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by Art

Originally Posted by Art View Post
......More and more marinas here won't berth, haul or dry dock them. ................



Because they have old Wooden hulls.

, thanks for the effort.

[Nomad Willy]

Good wood boats are the best.
Rotten boats are to be recycled.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Soo-Valley

Perhaps boat yards should ask to see the last survey, like insurance companies.
Don't haul or offer moorage unless a recent one is produced. We do trust surveyors to find these problems.

Problem is when you can't come out of the water without survey
Can't get a survey without coming out of water.

Insurers here are now insisting on condition report "survey" every 5 years
Boatyards and marinas are insisting on insurance

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Problem is when you can't come out of the water without survey
Can't get a survey without coming out of water.

Insurers here are now insisting on condition report "survey" every 5 years
Boatyards and marinas are insisting on insurance

Insurance here has asked for one every 5 years. So if 5 years is good for insurance, then what do boat haulers know differently. I can understand no moorage without insurance or at least a liability insurance.
Must not be reading in the right places about the issues with wood boats causing this concern.
Glass blisters and delaminates.
Maybe it is simply that marinas no longer have to beg to fill a berth and can become picky choosing the $$$$$ boats only.

[Pau Hana]

Originally Posted by Soo-Valley

Insurance here has asked for one every 5 years. So if 5 years is good for insurance, then what do boat haulers know differently. I can understand no moorage without insurance or at least a liability insurance.
Must not be reading in the right places about the issues with wood boats causing this concern.
Glass blisters and delaminates.
Maybe it is simply that marinas no longer have to beg to fill a berth and can become picky choosing the $$$$$ boats only.

Outside of cold molded boats, or specialty boats (such as Devlin stitch and glue) there are no major producers of wood boats today- so, the newest wood boats are from the late 70s/early 80s.

Wood boats (by actuarial claims data) have higher cost claims that a similar sized fiberglass boats primarily due to age, a lack of skilled craftsman, and/or a lack of good maintenance. Insurance premiums and the requirement for the survey to be hauled with fasteners pulled for inspection.

Gelcoats have been known to blister, but blistering (to the best of my knowledge) has never caused a vessel to sink. Delamination is another known factor of FG, but extremely rare. Wood planking that leaks has been known to sink vessels.

[Art]

Originally Posted by Pau Hana

Outside of cold molded boats, or specialty boats (such as Devlin stitch and glue) there are no major producers of wood boats today- so, the newest wood boats are from the late 70s/early 80s.

Wood boats (by actuarial claims data) have higher cost claims that a similar sized fiberglass boats primarily due to age, a lack of skilled craftsman, and/or a lack of good maintenance. Insurance premiums and the requirement for the survey to be hauled with fasteners pulled for inspection.

Gelcoats have been known to blister, but blistering (to the best of my knowledge) has never caused a vessel to sink. Delamination is another known factor of FG, but extremely rare. Wood planking that leaks has been known to sink vessels.

Thank You, Peter. If anyone should well know relevant statistics... it is you!

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Pau Hana

Outside of cold molded boats, or specialty boats (such as Devlin stitch and glue) there are no major producers of wood boats today- .

The world is so much bigger than america.

[Pau Hana]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

The world is so much bigger than america.

Agreed! My experience is based on being stateside, so I admit I may be off base outside the North America market.

Are there production wooden boat manufacturers in Oz or elsewhere that still use traditional techniques (uncoated planking, mechanical fastenings, caulking for leak prevention, etc.)?

[TDunn]

Interesting. There are quite a few wooden boats here in Maine. I also know of quite a few people who build traditional wooden boats. However, they are not production builders and generally build one boat at a time. I agree that finding skilled people to work on wooden boats can be an issue. That said I know of several yards that specialize in wooden boats. The yard I deal with is about 40% wooden boats. The marina I keep my boat at has a number of wooden boats, the oldest being from 1899. Mine is the second oldest at 1936. Personally I have not had a problem insuring my boat or having it hauled.

[Portage_Bay]

If you're looking for insurance for a wooden boat dig around on the Wooden Boat Forum where that topic pops up frequently. I considered an older woodie last fall and was able to locate insurance at that time.

[Art]

Originally Posted by Pau Hana

Agreed! My experience is based on being stateside, so I admit I may be off base outside the North America market.

Are there production wooden boat manufacturers in Oz or elsewhere that still use traditional techniques (uncoated planking, mechanical fastenings, caulking for leak prevention, etc.)?

Personally I bet that internationally there are some... maybe even quite a few wood boat builders. In the US, I believe that some limited volume builders are still in New England states [Maine especially]. That said; I imagine their are not high production international outfits and the ones that do still build hulls with wood are highly specialized in the current best construction methods of their trade. However, that does not remove the several facts of material composition deterioration physics that even the best built "aged" wood boats require considerable extra maintenance, repair and upkeep than best built "aged" fiberglass boats; of which there are many boats from brand builders.

Why yards are leery to haul old wood boats / Point in fact; mid 1980's: Relatively large [55' or so, built in mid 60's] Pacemaker wooden pleasure boat was hauled on a trolley lift in San Rafael CA. Rot and critters had set in so bad in its bottom planks and keel that it buckled midship and sprung the boat shape into a hog shaped hull. Many bottom planks cracked and fasteners galore sprung loose. It was set onto a dry dock framed holding bin, with extra wood and metal support items along its length. That boat sat in place [taking up valuable yard space] for several years while law suite litigation continued. Eventually it was dismantled in place by a wrecking crew using chainsaws, fork lifts, come alongs... etc. Evidently the yard took a bath financially.

Couple years after that boat was gone a friend asked me if I'd help him and a couple other wood-boat savvy persons restore the bottom of his still fairly good condition WWII 41' Navy commissioned Chris Craft. We did it in the same yard as the Pacemaker had been. It took a lot of urging and signed disclaimers before the yard would haul the wooden Chris. Once we got her in place for efforts to perform there were several bad planks and considerable amount of refastening needed on below water line planks. Keel was primarily OK. Work was performed on the transom too.

Reason I bring up the above mentioned items is because I've been into boats and boat building/repairing/restoring for various years and time spans during nearly all of my life. I currently own two fiberglass boats and am near to acquire another. Back in the late 50's through mid 70's I did a lot of improvement work on wood boats in yards on LI and in Maine. Early 1970's I even worked in a Maine new boat builder that used both wood and fiberglass building methods.

Suffice it to say - Correctly built and looked after wood boats are fine pieces of boat building craftsmanship. Fiberglass boats when well built are fine items of boat building craftsmanship too. The difference in the two is the longevity of material lastability and duration between required refinishing/repairs/maintenance. Regarding simplicity of ownership and reduced efforts as well as amount of money spent... Due to my over five [5] decades of hands-on experienced opinion... I say, fiberglass wins hands down!

[sdowney717]

Sure fiberglass is best of all boat materials in our size range for personal boats.
Since so many wooden boats are gone, I would think the few remaining are being kept up in good condition, I know mine is.
In lower Chesapeake Bay, here I know of 6 places close by can haul boats on a travel-lift, and 2 of them flat out refuse to haul a wood boat even if its got a slip in their marina, the other 4 will haul it out. Only one marina absolutely refuses to allow a wood boat a slip, and that is SouthHall landings marina across from the Salt Ponds in Hampton VA. Fine with me, the place is loaded with biting flies.

Went out to Oregon for a 2 week road trip to visit our daughter, and there are quite a few wood boats in marinas that I saw. Probably northern areas wood boats last longer, so less prejudice against them by marina people.

Stay away from a resort marina and go to one where they still have wooden work boats and they will treat you better if you have a wood boat.

[sdowney717]

To the OP, the insurance company will take the boat and it will be crushed and go to a landfill. Is that what you want to happen to this boat? then take the small amount of money and run.

I have insurance thru Boat US with Geico on my wood boat, but I also only have liability. Its just not worth insuring for anything more.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Pau Hana

Agreed! My experience is based on being stateside, so I admit I may be off base outside the North America market.

Are there production wooden boat manufacturers in Oz or elsewhere that still use traditional techniques (uncoated planking, mechanical fastenings, caulking for leak prevention, etc.)?

They still do traditional builds in many parts of south east asia



The Phinisi - Building It Right


http://boatbuildingindonesia.com/the...ling-boat.html

Turkish gulets are still done timber
Vietnam , Malay, Thai have extensive timber fishing fleets

Phinisis like the one below, $130,000/week + expenses to charter



https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/lu...216/lamima.htm

[Pau Hana]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

They still do traditional builds in many parts of south east asia



The Phinisi - Building It Right


http://boatbuildingindonesia.com/the...ling-boat.html

Turkish gulets are still done timber
Vietnam , Malay, Thai have extensive timber fishing fleets

Phinisis like the one below, $130,000/week + expenses to charter



https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/lu...216/lamima.htm

Beautiful boat!