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Old 01-31-2020, 02:46 AM   #21
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Hi Pat T,

One further thought from me.

All the 46s I have ever seen are twins, and so I am not sure that a GB46 with a single engine is a prevalent/popular configuration? There is nothing wrong with that of course, but it may make it possibly harder to sell when the time comes for you to move on?

In my earlier post I said choose a 46 over a 42, I think for my part now knowing the competing boats’ specs better I would personally be inclined to the 42 you mention because (a) I do prefer the specific engines (b) it’s a fair bit newer and (c) its a twin.

Good luck, GBs are great boats (that is a very biased opinion, BTW).

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Old 01-31-2020, 05:38 AM   #22
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Too bad that isn’t a single C series Cummins in that 46. That would be dreamy. But I do think the parts thing is overblown for the Volvo. I have never heard of anyone sitting around going nowhere because they can’t get parts. I do believe it will affect resale value down the road simply because the bad rap Volvo gets...deserved or otherwise.
A question no one has asked...is speed important to you at all?? That 42 with those engines should be able to get up and boogie. Obviously at a cost in fuel. Not sure what year GB went to planing hulls versus semi. But even if it is semi, you should be able to cruise in the teens easily with that power if you so desire. It might come in handy in the Great Lakes for making Port befit sundown.
One final thought and this is totally opinion and emotion. The GB46 is the perfect size. It just seems from a design proportion perspective, it is perfect...especially in the Europa. The 46 Europa is quite possibly the prettiest boat on the planet.
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Old 01-31-2020, 06:23 AM   #23
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Even if the Volvo runs fine the whole time you own it, I wouldn't buy a boat with one simply because of resale. Down the road, anyone looking to buy your boat will be asking the same question. And they will get the same responses. Volvo has earned such a bad reputation around long term parts availability and cost, that lots of people won't even get past a listing description when they see a boat has Volvo engines. So just as you may reject an otherwise good boat just because of it's engine brand, so will the next person looking to buy your boat. And you will find your prospects all buying other boats.
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Old 01-31-2020, 08:32 AM   #24
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I'd try to get an idea from the previous owners of what the fuel consumption difference is at lower speeds. If it's not much, take the twin Cummins. They'll likely have better resale. Parts has already been covered.

Cruising slow, either set of engines will be well below the power level it can output continuously for a very long time. But with the Cummins twins, you'll have the option of taking advantage of the semi displacement hull and making some speed without beating the snot out of the engines. The single Volvo probably won't get far enough above hull speed to be worth ever trying unless you're at WOT. FWIW, the GB49 currently sitting next to my boat has twin 375hp cats and those are apparently good for 18 kts at WOT, so fast cruise around 14 or so. Twin 450s in a 42 should be able to fast cruise at 17 - 18 and I'd expect 22 or better at WOT.
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:30 AM   #25
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Appreciate the great info guys. Here is a little more info. The single Volvo boat is a 46 coupled to a Hundested gear and variable pitch prop. Stated cruise is 1100 rpm for 8.5 kts and fuel burn of 4.5 gph. Great engine access as you might imagine. I did speak to a Hundested rep and he quoted a rebuild for the unit at 40,000 hours so I am good with that system and parts available too. Boat has bow & stern thrusters and is in really great shape. You can sense someone had some pride here. I was really interested until I heard that volvo parts could be a problem. .
That sounds like a very interesting vessel. Suggest you keep chasing it. As noted by Spy and others, the base engine should not be much of a concern. The question is the parts and pieces termed marinization bolt ons. Looking this engine up on boat diesel may prove helpful as well as cold call a Volvo Penta shop.
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Old 01-31-2020, 05:03 PM   #26
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The bigger Volvos are better than the smaller ones as they tend to be intended for commercial service. And sounds like a very interesting boat with the CPP and single engine.

I don't know what the parts situation is for that Volvo, never did much work on them. Suggest you call a dealer and ask if parts like cylinder kits, after coolers, heat exchangers, oil coolers, manifolds and turbos are still available. And for how long that situation is likely to remain.

Worst case is to buy the Volvo boat and if it poops completely, replace the Volvo with a modest rating Cummins C series.

For my new build 14yrs ago I bought a used 450C with 1200hrs on it. I have added 2800hrs since and it has basically been flawless. Total cost of the engine used was $14k, cheaper than the parts to rebuild that Volvo (probably, don't quote me on that).

Good chance that if running at 1100, that Volvo will last a long time until something like a cooler rots out.
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Old 01-31-2020, 07:32 PM   #27
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I don`t see how to avoid the single/twin issue when the 2 boats under consideration raise it. You already know the joys of a single,albeit probably without thrusters,but boats with can unexpectedly be without. I suggest you drive a boat with twins and see if, like me, you appreciate what they can do.
More generally,I`d say go Cummins. And assuming you can live with 42ft instead of 46,which coming from a 36ft sailboat, should be enough. But check out the executive sleeping berth to see if it suits, that could be a factor.
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:30 PM   #28
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Good discussions guys. To answer a few of your questions: The Volvo is a TAMD102D not 102A and per my research classified as rating 3, 428 HP at 2200 rpm.

Ski, great idea on swapping out for a Cummins. If I am not mistaken the HP of the 8.3L is similar to the Volvo. A quick search and one could be had in the 20-25K range rebuilt. But how much to engineer and install? Seems doable though and removing a single engine from a 46 has got to be easier than pulling one from a twin 42.

Bow thruster on the 46 is hydraulic so I am assuming more reliable than an electric?

And as far as speed goes remember I am past sailor. If we were sailing 6 kts I was doing well. Hull speed was about 7.2 on my last boat. So I would be tickled pink to be going above 8 kts especially in the exact direction I want to go! Can't wait to get a boat but so much to learn & be concerned about. Thanks for the education.
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:21 AM   #29
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CPP setup coupled to a volvo would nix it from consideration from me. CPP is great in theory and practice....If you have deep pockets and time to wait. Who do you know that would work on CPP when (not if) you have an issue?...Never mind the Volvo.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:04 AM   #30
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Agree with you SOF. A key question would be what CPP spare parts go with vessel...
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:29 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
The bigger Volvos are better than the smaller ones as they tend to be intended for commercial service. And sounds like a very interesting boat with the CPP and single engine.

I don't know what the parts situation is for that Volvo, never did much work on them. Suggest you call a dealer and ask if parts like cylinder kits, after coolers, heat exchangers, oil coolers, manifolds and turbos are still available. And for how long that situation is likely to remain.

Worst case is to buy the Volvo boat and if it poops completely, replace the Volvo with a modest rating Cummins C series.

For my new build 14yrs ago I bought a used 450C with 1200hrs on it. I have added 2800hrs since and it has basically been flawless. Total cost of the engine used was $14k, cheaper than the parts to rebuild that Volvo (probably, don't quote me on that).

Good chance that if running at 1100, that Volvo will last a long time until something like a cooler rots out.
I think Ski has it right, and Mako builders also made a good point. Just run with the Volvo until it needs something expensive, then ditch it and install a Cummins.. Chances are that will never come to pass.

Then there is the 46 is better than 42 point to note. Hydraulic thruster is an unusual bonus. And that CPP is a big plus, IMO. Based on info to date, the Volvo boat overall is a clear winner!
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:34 PM   #32
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I spoke with the Hundested rep in Seattle. He said their systems were all commercial grade and based on what he thought was in this boat it was rated to go 40,000 hours before overhaul. He said the systems were robust and simple just change the oil and filters and some greasing and you will be ok. Broker said there were some extra blades available. I asked the rep and he said easy to change by owner. I am not worried so much about the CPP, at least not now but that is why I ask for all your opinions. I think a good yard can do work on the CPP unit if needed with assistance form Hundested rep.
Thanks.
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:59 PM   #33
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Volvo or Cummins?

Sounds like the CPP would be ideal if you run in ice (arctic, Antarctic, Northern European winters). Break a blade then just change it out. A lot simpler than trying to pull an entire prop underwater.

CPPs are actually less efficient than fixed props, but you get to run your engine at an ideal loading at any rpm, thus extending its life and reliability.

However when I priced a unit for a new build it added like $25k to the build, if I recall properly.

Wayne on Möbius installed one, and could give solid details if anyone wanted to reach out to him.
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Old 02-03-2020, 05:26 PM   #34
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Cummings, no Cummins!
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Old 02-03-2020, 06:56 PM   #35
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A couple of friends have had Volvos. Both had the same opinion after selling that boat, they would never own another boat with an engine named after a woman’s private parts (they are two expensive and only work when they want to).

I’ve never had one but have had GMs, Cats and Cummins.
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Old 02-07-2020, 01:46 PM   #36
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opinions...

I owned a boat with twin Volvos. NEVER again...

Very special 46 just came on the market called Wild Moose. In Stuart FL. Google it and maybe you will find it. Huge refit by the former owner... new tanks, ac units, boat is crazy nice
Seller bought it in '17 or summer of '18 I think he said.
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:13 PM   #37
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Cummins Diesels

I have a 1988 GB 46 with twin Cummins BT 5.9. They don't burn a drop of oil, straight six leaving a lot of room around engine for maintenance, easy/cheap to get part and advise and all around simple to work on.

You can run your engines at a lower RPM at hull speed and probably burn less than 5GPH. On the other hand you can run at 18 knots at WOT if required.
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Old 02-07-2020, 03:06 PM   #38
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Spare parts Volvo

Here you can see how many Volvo TAMD102A spare parts are out of production or still in stock.
https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en...0-26-2877.aspx
You can do the same with Cummins and compare.
I have 2 250 CV Tamd 60B 1984 running perfect and I have just renewed some parts and clean after cooler and all cooling system etc.
But more people prefers the security of two engines instead.
Anyway, enjoy your boat !
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:12 PM   #39
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'Lo All,
Prior to selling my 46' sailboat and purchasing the Celestial (43' Albin sundeck trawler w/ twin Cummins BT5.9M engines), I talked with as many mechanics I could that worked on commercial shrimp boats (most prevalent commercial type here at that time). Once, while standing on the deck and looking down into the engine room, the mechanic was covered from head to toe in jet black engine oil - acquired from simply working in there. The engine was a single slobbering Detroit Diesel. I asked him about what engines he thought were best. He said for a mechanic, a DD; for an owner, a Cummins of any model. I had already spent lots of time working on Volvos (great engines when they ran, but was hard to get some parts) and Cat 6-110's (beasts) and immaculate DD's on a crewboat; but never any Cummins engines. When looking for a boat to cruise in, we saw a wide variety, but when we saw the Celestial, we fell in love with her lines and size. We were very happy to find that she had twin Cummins BT5.9M engines. We liked the fact that it had "get-home" power: twin engines - similar to our sailboat: sails and an engine. After buying her, I had a Cummins mechanic go over one engine to show me how to maintain it, then I did the other under his supervision. The engines' hour meters indicated a need for the valve lash to be re-set. I was truly astounded at how simple the Cummins engines were to check out, and, over the years, how little maintenance they actually required - just normal impellers, filters, oil, etc.. For the years we owned her, she only had one on-engine failure - an oil pressure sender. Never had to run on only one engine, but the reassurance of twin engines was required by my wife in order to go long-distance cruising. The price we pay. I did enjoy the maneuverability that twin engines gave, but was very adept at single handing the single engine sailboat with a Perkins 4-108 diesel engine. As you may be able to tell, I loved both of those boats. We had to sell the sailboat because I had to be able to get out of the sun (whole 'nuther story) and still be able to run the (a) boat.
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Old 02-08-2020, 03:28 PM   #40
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TwistedTree wrote, "lots of people won't even get past a listing description when they see a boat has Volvo engines."

Me among them. Every boater I've known who has run Volvo marine engines agrees that they won't go there again, on account of parts and reliability.
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