To Repair or Sell Grand Banks 36 Classic

[SteveK]

Originally Posted by socalrider

I've always wished my boat had a single FL120 instead of two but this thread is making me thankful for the redundancy!

[RonR]

My .02 cents. (Internet guessing is fun)

This is where I would start.
Check the oil, does it still have oil, does it smell burnt or is it jet-black?
If there is no oil, or if its burnt and jet black... it’s going to need a rebuild again.

If No then..

It could a blown head gasket (my number one guess), and or a rotted out exhaust mixer that let water in where it should not have gone when you shut it down.




If it were my boat, I would spend a few grand if I had it on a new mechanic; I think you can fix it without a replacement.

[Kurplunk]

I don't think I would give up on her quite yet. The scenario sounds to me one of a simple overheating event. Low RPM with temp at 180, then at high RPMs over 200 - makes me think raw water pump impeller went and it overheated. Looks a lot worst than really is with steam spewing from engine compartment. As others have said; spend a few more boat bucks on it and you may find a relatively inexpensive fix is all that is needed. You are going to lose money either way, you might as well have a boat at the end of the day versus lost money and no boat.

[Capt Dadio]

The oil is good. The bilge is clean for a GB bilge. Expansion tank holds water. No leak. Valve cover off, there is no indication of water. Spoke with Brian over at AD and he is having me go to the transmission first to check the flex plate. A good way for me to calibrate to the engine's requirements for DYI repair, see if I can do this. Thank you again for the posts.

[SteveK]

If you are missing pieces of the springs, time to replace. Had a broken spring wedge the flywheel so engine could not be turned, this after a normal shut down. I was offered an engine rebuild, instead installed new damper DIY.

[Trawlerman]

Originally Posted by Delta Riverat

Neither am I.

I am convinced the OP needs a new mechanic or "roll up your sleeves and DIY"

Ditto from me.

[Mark Scott]

Originally Posted by Capt Dadio

Fellow Boaters I have need of your help.
My Lehman 135 overheated (loose fan belt) and shut down. We had to be towed in.

The engine would not restart. Flywheel will not turn. Slight smell when the valve cover was removed. No water in oil. Expansion tank holds coolant.

Bottom line, getting an engine out of a Grand Banks is not easy. I have done it twice. But the engine should come out to be repaired. (My mechanic) He suspects broken shaft.

Cummins has an engine, 6BT Retro I believe, that has been known to replace the hard-to-find Lehman engine in decent shape. Cost around $10,000. I figure the replacement costs including on-the-hard would be between $15,000-$20,000.

So here is my dilemma:
Wife wants to sell. Tired of engine swapping. Does not want to spend another dime, sell as is.

I see on the boards, Grand Banks are a desired boat, running.
Not sure about not running.
Should I repair, go through the trip to the yard, spend the money and then sell
\or
Sell as is and take the hit?
Your thoughts?

Selling as is will cost you more than the repairs, as a buyer will generally not want all that work without a big discount, so if you are able to do it; that's the way i would recommend.
can you not disassemble and possibly repair the engine in situ?

[ronobrien]

Originally Posted by twistedtree

To be frank, the "broken crankshaft" comment from the mechanic would be a red flag to me. That just makes no sense based on typical failures, the consequences of over heating, or any of your symptoms. It's indicative of someone who either has no clue what they are talking about, or who is a giant BSer. Neither of those suggest someone you want to listen to, let alone hire.


I think the chances are good that there is nothing horribly wrong with your engine. But if there is coolant in the cylinders and it's hydrolocked, you need to get that out of there right away or you will have a badly damage engine. Pulling the injectors (or glow plugs if it has them) and baring over the engine I think it a priority. That will confirm if it turns or if it's really seized up in some catastrophic way. And it will get out any water or coolant that's in the wrong place and that might do real damage.

I agree unless the head gasket failed, hydro-locked the engine and now the mechanic suspects that broke the crank. Without being there it is hard to question. But this course of events could break a crank.

[Andiamo2018]

Your wife made it clear what she wants. Pretty much a done deal.

Don't waste more time on it trying to be sure about what is wrong with it. (Me personally though - I'd try a LONG breaker bar and see if I could get it loose and then started. Burning oil etc is better than not running.)

But why spend much time figuring out what will be someone else's problem? They aren't going to just take your word for it anyway so why bother?

The philosophy behind owning / wanting a boat seems pretty basic to me. It's hard for a boat to work as a financial investment. It is more like investing in a vacation - it makes your life better by increasing your quality of life, not by increasing your bank account. If you enjoy the process then do the process whatever it is. Your wife sounds like she will NOT enjoy the process lol.

[ronobrien]

Originally Posted by Capt Dadio

Fellow Boaters I have need of your help.
My Lehman 135 overheated (loose fan belt) and shut down. We had to be towed in.

The engine would not restart. Flywheel will not turn. Slight smell when the valve cover was removed. No water in oil. Expansion tank holds coolant.

Bottom line, getting an engine out of a Grand Banks is not easy. I have done it twice. But the engine should come out to be repaired. (My mechanic) He suspects broken shaft.

Cummins has an engine, 6BT Retro I believe, that has been known to replace the hard-to-find Lehman engine in decent shape. Cost around $10,000. I figure the replacement costs including on-the-hard would be between $15,000-$20,000.

So here is my dilemma:
Wife wants to sell. Tired of engine swapping. Does not want to spend another dime, sell as is.

I see on the boards, Grand Banks are a desired boat, running.
Not sure about not running.
Should I repair, go through the trip to the yard, spend the money and then sell
\or
Sell as is and take the hit?
Your thoughts?

I would give it a full evaluation and determine EXACTLY what the extent of damage is. This is the only way to even consider what your options are. A quick decision might well be one that costs you more than it would otherwise.

[JESSEDIVER49]

When you wrote the engine had recently been rebuilt - may be a long shot but one thing to check: do No 4, 5, 6 cylinder pushrods and rocker assemblies look normal or messed up (worn improperly, rod out of rocker arm, etc) but not 1, 2, 3. If so, that's indicative of the two rocker arm assemblies being installed backwards and depriving three cylinders of proper lubrication. I had that experience in 2018 when a supposed "ace mechanic" did an injector calibration on one of my engines. The engine ran for a couple hundred hrs with inadequate lube to 3 cylinders and when it failed, "loud banging" (all hell broke loose). I was lucky it only cost me $3500 to fix plus an extra week's marina cost for transient slip.

[Comodave]

Gotta love the “ace mechanics “…

[Barrie]

Number 1 priority........HAPPY WIFE!!

[HTurner]

Originally Posted by Barrie

Number 1 priority........HAPPY WIFE!!

Make friends with a good jeweler. What you do with your boat becomes a non issue quickly.

[rpackard]

I have experienced the sound of a broken crankshaft. It sounds like 20 lbs of steel dropped into a huge garbage disposal. Unmistakable. If your engine seized and did’t start, I doubt the broken crank diagnosis.

Many people call themselves mechanics but there are no standards for that title in the USA.

[omoore]

First of all I want to send you sympathies. I know what you are undergoing-a broken boat and and fed up wife. Nothing worse.
Having said that, unless you are getting advice from a diesel mechanic who has actually dealt with your specific issue or an owner (like me) all the advice is not really trustworthy. People want to be helpful but you need to have the specific experience.
I have had a Lehman overheat and stop in 42 Classic. In addition, I had two Detroit 8v92TA's on different occasions let go while cruising with guests. Plus a Cat 3208 TI that had to have the cylinders sleeved which I was told was not possible.
Back to your Lehman. Sell it broken, I doubt you would get more than 30k.
Fix it? For starters, you don't know what has happened. Cranks and rods don't break from momentary overheating.
The very first thing you need to do is call Brian at American Diesel. His late father marinized most of the Ford diesels in pleasure boats. The company continues to support the engines with parts and expertise.
In my case I was told that a knock after the overheating was a wrist pin bearing or a rod bearing.Brian told me that it is virtualy unheard of to have bearings failures much less shaft failures in a pleasure boat Lehman application. In my case, he was right. Turns out I had an injector that wouldn't hold pressure and the knock was from the premature firing.
Before that happy ending, I investigated rebuilds. Turns out the enginbe does not have to be removed from the boat. Many are rebuilt in the engine room by hoisting high enough to drop the oil pan to replace main and rod bearings. Pistons and rods come out the top after removing the head. Not a big deal. The head weights roughly 120-130 lbs.
Others have built an A-frame and hoisted into the main salon.
Bottom Line. Call Brian Smith. Use my name Oliver Moore in New Bern if you want. Find out why it won't turn over. Then proceed.
BTW, if you decide to repower. You don't need more HP. Using the calculator in Boat Diesel for your displacement and LWL, the GB 36 requires 36.4 HP at the flywheel to reach a cruising speed of 7 kn.
Add extra HP for breasting currents, storm waves or inlets 85 HP would be more than adequate.
Good luck and let us know your decision. BTW, apologies for typos. I am a terrible typist.

[BevinB]

Have you spoken to your insurance company?

[Comodave]

I would hire a competent mechanic and have him/her check out the engine. You may well be able to fix the engine for a few thousand dollars rather than giving the boat away because the engine has a “broken crank”.

[auskiwi]

I had a 38ft Marine Trader, so a little bigger than your GB, it came with a 210 Cummins, it was brilliant, plenty of power when needed, ran all day at 1600rpm @ 7.5 knots, averaged 2 1/4 galls an hour, quite and reliable, if you decide to swap over you cant go wrong. Had a friend pull 2 Crusader petrols out of his 44ft Tollycraft, replaced with 210 Cummins, recons the best thing he ever did.

[bumpkin]

In answer to your question: selling without an engine, will attract people knowledgeable people looking for a deal to make some money, to fund their boat addiction. You will come out less well, probably a lot less well.

Boats have risen in price because of me and Lisa, really new boaters. You see us every week on TF asking for buying advice. We won't look at a boat that doesn't have a perfectly running engine, in fact, a perfectly running everything.

I say this with confidence, as I just attended an AGLCA event and met upwards of 20 couples, with more money than sense who are dying to buy your boat in perfect operating order.

I wish I had some words of wisdom to help with your wife, you might try jewelry but depending on how angry she is it could cost more than the engine repair.

Mike