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Old 05-31-2020, 05:26 AM   #21
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O C Diver - Ted you have asked some could questions.

I have attached a picture of the electric panel. When the inverter was operating if I turned on the switches below the inverter switch (with the exception of battery charger) - Cook Top, Washer/Dryer, and Water Maker no light would come on and I assumed that meant the power draw was too much for the inverter to handle and we needed either the generator or SP. Also the items in middle column - A/C (3), Fuel Polisher, and Water Heater I never tried to turn on while just the inverter was running but I suspect they too might be too much load. On the left side of the AC panel are two SP breakers for the forward and aft connection and at the bottom is the Generator. In this photo she was connected to SP from aft.

Your next question I am not sure I know the correct answer to about battery chargers. This Xantrex inverter is an inverter/charger. In addition there is a separate battery charger. However I do not know how the separate battery charger and the inverter charger interact with each other. More to learn!!

Also I don't know the answer to you last question. Because of what the marine electricians told me I have been switching the Inverter Bypass switch to AC Main whenever the Generator or SP are connected.

Bob
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:43 AM   #22
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Do you have the manual for the inverter?

In addition to fuses for the 12 VDC input (which aren't part of the inverter), there should be an output circuit breaker in the event of an overload. This breaker is often a push to reset button located on the same side of the unit as the 12 VDC power input cables or 120 VAC output cables. Locate the breaker and try to reset it. If you don't find it, check the manual for its location. If the breaker is tripped, the unit may not switch to inverting as it doesn't see a load.

Ted
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:08 AM   #23
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Ted - Yep, I have a thick manual for the inverter.

I did not know there was a breaker on the inverter for the AC output. As the inverter picture I posted shows the DC side to the right and the AC side to the left and quite a reach around the AC units. That is okay though - I am an ex submariner and very used to crowded equipment spaces and hard to reach equipment. This breaker is just around the corner and I will give it a push.

Bob
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:40 AM   #24
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Kernr
On older inverter systems switches and operation can be devious as different electricians, owners and time have come and gone. Have you queried the previous owner as to your questions? Also, did the inverter work OK initially and now has a hiccup or just a puzzle since day one?
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:15 AM   #25
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Inverter problems

At this point I think you have verified DC power at the inverter terminals, yet both the local and remote displays go blank when you try to turn on the inverter. Is that correct?

At this point I can think of two more things to try.

1) Try turning on the inverter while you have your meter on the inverter DC terminals, and while watching the meter. Earlier someone mentioned how voltage readings can look fine until you actually apply a load. See if the input holds at 12V while the inverter is trying to power up. That should tell you if you have solid DC input.

2) turn off the rotary DC switch for the inverter, leave it off for maybe a full minute. Verify that the DC voltage at the inverter goes to zero when the switch is off. Turn the DC switch back on and try to start the inverter.

3) OK, make that three things. Try unplugging the cable for the remote at the inverter. Cycle DC power, then try to get it running. Maybe the remote has gone bad.

If none of this helps then I think you just have a dead inverter. They do go bad, and yours is pretty old.
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:57 PM   #26
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Okay -

Well I am now as confused as the next guy. I walked on the boat this morning and the yellow Inverting light was on and the display readout returned and you could change settings on the remote. it is almost like PFM and I didn't want to touch anything on the inverter. i did find the reset button on the AC output side of the box but did not press it due to thinking my inverter returned. Not quite sure what to think at this point. Maybe I should just enjoy the moment.

Any thoughts? Attached are the schematics that came with boat - both AC & DC

Bob

PS I do not know what the box below the inverter is and difficult to see through plexi-glass. I certainly have more questions than answers but I am learning.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:28 PM   #27
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Bob,

I just caught up with this thread....but my bet is that your batteries were below inverter threshhold. I'd recommend checking water and keeping an eye on them to understand charging.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:55 PM   #28
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You could be correct on the batteries. it seems that they get from 12.8 VDC to 12.2 to 12.3 VDC in about two days. i recently asked the owner what the battery age was and he claimed not to know and no receipts. So my guess it the three 8Ds that are house / inverter batteries may be near end of life. I looked for a date punch on the batteries and there was nothing on the top. i might have to give them a full charge and see how fast each of them drop off in voltage. The inverter came on the day after running engines and generator for about 1 1/2 hours yesterday afternoon. Can I look up the inverter threshold on one of the inverter menus because it must be set - correct? i'll check it out - I wouldn't be surprised if it was set at 12.3 VDC.

I really appreciate everyone helping me out in these discussions - it really helps me learn the boat and there is a lot of experience on the forum. I will keep updating this thread until I feel we know root cause (5 whys)

Thanks,
Bob
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:13 PM   #29
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That inverter is completely programmable. The menu has 8 or 9 items. Then if you push two buttons at the same time you get a secret menu. This menu allows you to program the drop out values.

I haven’t studied your schematics yet but I am thinking that you weren’t given full details on how the inverter needs to be used.
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kernr View Post
Okay -

Well I am now as confused as the next guy. I walked on the boat this morning and the yellow Inverting light was on and the display readout returned and you could change settings on the remote. it is almost like PFM and I didn't want to touch anything on the inverter. i did find the reset button on the AC output side of the box but did not press it due to thinking my inverter returned. Not quite sure what to think at this point. Maybe I should just enjoy the moment.

Any thoughts? Attached are the schematics that came with boat - both AC & DC

Bob

PS I do not know what the box below the inverter is and difficult to see through plexi-glass. I certainly have more questions than answers but I am learning.
You owe me a beer.

I sent your inverter a telepathic reboot code because you seem a decent person and were trying real hard.

I can only do that once, so study and understand the manual and associated parts of your system.

Ted
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:41 PM   #31
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Great that it's working again, but I don't believe in magic. I expect something is still amiss, and it will eventually surface again. But now you will be better prepared...



A few things stand out from the schematics:


- The original inverter was a Trace PS2512. Is that what you have, or was it changed to an SW at some point? I think they are equivalent other than sine wave vs modified sine wave.


- The bypass switch does two things. It connects the loads directly to the shore or gen power source. And is disconnects the AC input to the inverter. So when by passed, the inverter will not charge.


- The mystery device behind the cover appears to be a neutral bonding relay. It bonds neutral and ground when on inverter, and disconnects when shore or gen is active.
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Old 06-01-2020, 07:16 AM   #32
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Ted - Thanks for for the reboot code - much appreciated - and next time you are around Newport, RI I'll buy.

Twistedtree - I think you are probably correct. When I get a moment I will look at the inverter menus to determine the DC Voltage for Inverter shutdown. i am thinking it is set right around 12.3 V DC and that's where the House Batteries have been sitting until I ran both the engines and generator for an hour and a half. Currently the Navy Base berth I have has't been available util today June 1st so I have been sitting next to dock w/o SP.

I do suspect the House Batteries are having difficulty holding a charge. When I asked previous owner two days ago how old they were I got receipts thrown out and I don't remember. Well I remember when I am hauling 8Ds around so I suspect their old. Best way to determine 3 8Ds in parallel are good is what - a full charge and isolate them to monitor each ones discharge rate??

The Inverter I believe to be an SW2512MC and the original. I noted that the AC schematic shows different nomenclature but the DC schematic and the plate on the inverter itself show the same "SW" nomenclature.

Regarding the Bypass switch I am still not confident that I know its function and just when it should be in the Inverter position or in the AC Main position. I am thinking that when the generator or SP are connected to the AC Buses that it should be in the AC Main position because the efficiency of charging the batteries through the Mastervolt battery charger is better than through the inverter charger. More discussion needed for me to feel comfortable with the Bypass switch.

Thanks for assist,
Bob
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Old 06-05-2020, 04:31 PM   #33
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Gents, 12.5v at the inverter terminal does not mean that the battery is good. please try to load test the battery (batteries). as far as I see here is that the Xantrex is trying to start (showing the display on the remote) then it dies when it put the load on the batteries. Once the load is put on the batteries it kills the remote.
Good luck,
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Old 06-05-2020, 04:33 PM   #34
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Hi Bob,
Welcome to the forum. I too had recent Xantrax (Freedom 2500 if I recall) inverter problems. Numerous self proclaimed electrical experts at $100 plus per hour were tossed off my boat unable to diagnose the problem. I then called Xantrax ((800) 816-0810) and received excellent technical support. Over the phone he had me do numerous checks and tests which revealed a bad temp sensor as well a inoperative echo charger. He gave me the part numbers and said to check Amazon first for a better price. Found 'em, got 'em and installed them. Happy ending! Good lock
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:00 PM   #35
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Driss... _ I think many of us concluded for right now it probably is a battery problem. The previous owner couldn't recall when the 8Ds were bought - he probably had some one do the work for him. I am a DIY guy and when I replace the 8Ds I remember the day hour and minute. The boat has now been moved to a dock with 50 amp service and she is charged and on a float - according to the inverter - which appears to be working just fine. As I said previously the DC V at the inverter in were 12.28 VDC and it was most likely the cause of the inverter shutting down. I have two action items in front of me right now (1) check the 3 8Ds each separated / isolated to see how fast the are dropping off and (2) check the inverter menus to see what the low voltage setting is.

Crasher - Thanks for the Xantrex phone number - I will give them a call. The Xantrex temperature sensor is just floating on top of one of the 8Ds - is that supposed to be that way?
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:23 PM   #36
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Definitely not. The temp sensor was probably the root problem with mine. My bad temp sensor did not regulate the charge which boiled off my 8D's and toasted the echo charger. Yea, new AGM 8D start batteries for me also. If your temp sensor is the phone jack plug in type to the inverter, this may be the part (https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-Batte...395218&sr=8-18).
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Old 06-05-2020, 08:39 PM   #37
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Just went through similar situation. Wound up replacing one battery bank. Took the inverter into a Xantrex service center. Replaced a circuit board gone bad. Suggest 1) call Xantrex tech support, 2) get a ABYC electrician to check it out.
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Old 06-06-2020, 12:56 PM   #38
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WOW tons of good info in this exchange. Especially for this old dude looking at a secondary battery bank and a inverter system.
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Old 06-07-2020, 07:11 AM   #39
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Crasher - Once again thanks for the info on temp sensor. I don't know if it's the same as what you have but I thought it strange that it was just laying on top of the 8D battery and not adhered to it. When I talk to Xantrex I will discuss if I van just re-attach or need a new one. If I can re-attach then I won't do it until I check out to see if battery is worth saving,

Sailorskip - So I have been trying to think my way through how to move 8Ds and you take your Xantrex into the shop. I can't even imagine taking that Xantrex off the aft bulkhead - it looks like it weighs a ton - let alone trying to detach it off bulkhead (very awkward location to get to).

tekdiver - I am just a new owner of a 2008 GB that is trying to drink out of a fire hose right now. Boat is a beauty but has not been used enough to keep everything working properly. She needs the TLC that I am trying to learn about and give to her.
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:37 AM   #40
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I have a different set-up. Installed additional battery space. Removed 2 8D's, replaced with 6 Group 31 AGM's . Much easier to replace, etc. Also added dedicated starting bank, Xantrex is mounted horizontally, not vertically.
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