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Old 05-19-2023, 12:06 AM   #21
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For a surveyor, I would call Bunker Hill in Newport Beach. He is a highly experienced and respected guy. He will tell you if he is the right guy to survey that boat and, if not, you can trust his recommendation. Lots of experience and knowledge.
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Old 05-19-2023, 12:55 AM   #22
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Lehman made the 6cyl engine in 120 and 135 hp guise. Not 140, AFAIK. I believe the 135 overcame the need for frequent changes of injector pump oil. My 120 Manual said every 200hrs, someone (Marin) had one that said 50hrs, I settled on 100. There were other improvements (as well as the scintillating +15hp!) but note, 135 head studs are not to be retensioned.
Good luck/management with the survey and purchase.
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Old 05-19-2023, 01:34 AM   #23
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Bob Smith said change the injection pump oil at 50 hours. And if it looked good, not diesel diluted, then gradually increase the change interval until it starts becoming diluted. Then back off on the hours. He said each 120 was different and would require oil changes differently. One guy in the class said his twin 120s were different, one had to be changed at 50 but the other one could go 100.
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Old 05-19-2023, 10:04 AM   #24
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Any pictures?
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Old 05-19-2023, 12:17 PM   #25
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I am happy with the survey of my 1972 GB42 performed by Hans Anderson who is in Lompoc CA. When I was looking at buying Inara in 2017, I was fortunate to have access to 5 previous surveys, including a 2012 survey Anderson performed. Thought Anderson's work was the most thorough so I contacted him. In 2012, he pulled screws from the bottom to check for wasting, found none and included a picture of the screws in the report. Although the survey did not include engine and generator testing, obvious maintenance to the Lehman cooling systems was noted. I needed the survey in order to get a slip and insurance. The marina asked for an additional $500 deposit because my boat is wood. Not a big deal. My insurance is only liability. In hindsight, I would have had Anderson pull screws again in order to get full insurance coverage. Good luck!
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Old 05-19-2023, 02:02 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Lehman made the 6cyl engine in 120 and 135 hp guise. Not 140, AFAIK. I believe the 135 overcame the need for frequent changes of injector pump oil. My 120 Manual said every 200hrs, someone (Marin) had one that said 50hrs, I settled on 100. There were other improvements (as well as the scintillating +15hp!) but note, 135 head studs are not to be retensioned.
Good luck/management with the survey and purchase.

Bruce,

Some info on the FL line of engines below, including the SP140. I'd never heard of the FL SP140 either until I started researching the "145" that was mentioned earlier in the thread. I learn something new everyday!

Lehman produced and marketed the Lehman SD120 (Standard 120) & SP135 (Super 135) marine engines from 1982 to 1991± and later the SP140 (Super 140) by marinizing new 380 cubic inch displacement Ford 2725 (ESD-662) base engines.

Full webpage here: https://everythingaboutboats.org/lehman-sd120-sp135/
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Old 05-22-2023, 01:25 PM   #27
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Wooden Boats, GB's in particular

This string of responses hits most of the highlights of wooden boat ownership pro and con. I agree with most of the remarks about marina's, insurance, shipwrights and the like. And most of the issues will be exacerbated as the wooden fleet ages. To the comments previously opined, I would add the following: I owned and loved a wooden boat for many years. I found that the maintenance of a wooden boat, especially in SoCal to be not a whole lot different than the glass boats that I have owned. Varnish is not a function of hull material. The major differences are that wooden boats need to be painted periodically that's expensive. FG boats need to be polished that's a PITA but not especially expensive. Wooden boats need constant maintenance and deferred maintenance is a serious no - no. Without constant attention, a wooden boat will quickly bio-degrade.
GB's have excellent build quality, are usually kept up by their owners, and SoCal is a benign climate.
So, do an inspection (Check out the site "Marine Survey 101" for a checklist). Do your do diligence and good luck.
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Old 05-22-2023, 01:27 PM   #28
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Wood Boat Surveyor

I just sold a 32 Grand Banks that was wood. I used Basin Marine in Newport
Beach as they were familiar with the vessel. Speak with Derrick.For the survey, the buyer used Bill Trenkle from Todd & Associates (619-226-1895), Inc. I would also contact Bunker Hill @ 949-646-3038 ( be sure to get Bunker, older guy) or Kells Christian @ 619-223-7380. As a broker, I've worked with all 3 and if I were purchasing the boat you are looking at, I'd pay one of these 3.
You can PM me for more info.
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Old 05-22-2023, 02:27 PM   #29
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If this were in Maine or the PNW, where timber is common, and so are those who build, work on and survey them. SoCal is a completely different environment, and not especially timber friendly.


I managed a boat yard that specialized in timber boat repair (and construction of cold-molded vessels). We had a contingent of regular owners who brought their vessels to us, and we had very capable shipwrights who could make a chisel sing, but they are rare.

Every once in a while a customer would come in who was new to timber vessel ownership, the learning curve was often steep and costly, they were often drawn in by the romance, the seeming low cost and the claims of "wood is warmer", or it "feels better in a seaway". While some of these may be true, the reality of ownership was anything but romantic.

Saying you should go into this with your eyes open is like saying you should be very careful when walking over the backs of crocodiles. Your eyes couldn't be open wide enough, and if you have no experience in timber vessel ownership, then you have no idea what you are getting into and what to look for.

I think your first order of business should be to determine if you can get insurance. If not, end of discussion.

Beyond that, any 60 year old vessel would be a huge concern unless you are an extremely capable do it yourselfer. For a timber vessel, I would double that warning. if you haven't owned timber, you really should not leap into ownership with a vessel of this sort.

Apologies for raining on your parade, but having seen this scenario before, my instinct is you would regret this decision.
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Old 05-22-2023, 03:56 PM   #30
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Our GB 42 is hull number 312 built in 1973.
And.she is a woody. BTW Tahini is currently for sale at $135,000 CAN. In Vancouver BC.
She is in pristine condition having been taken care of in one family. Moving to a Europa.
I can send you some pictures.
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Old 05-22-2023, 04:05 PM   #31
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By my count, I am the third person on this thread with hands-on experience with a wooden GB and the second with experience on the 42. I bought my 1972 when it was a mere 14 years old, a far, far different proposition that buying it today. I think the GB woodies were as well built as any boat on the planet, IN THEIR DAY. That day has passed. I loved mine for 29 years, and sold it to a fellow who continued to enjoy it. There is no way on earth I would buy one today, because I don't have the energy and/or money to spare to keep it in good condition.

The 120-HP Ford-Lehman is a great engine, and I would look very suspiciously at the idea of changing the fuel delivery system with the idea that 15 HP. Unless blessed by Brian at American Diesel, pass this one by because who knows what sort of stresses the poor of 120-HP frame has been exposed to with this tinkering.

As to fiberglass vs wood, my brother has a fiberglass GB42 (1985), and I have a goodly number of hours on it too. No difference in how it rides. LOTS of difference in the hours and dollars he has to spend on it than I did. Again, no woodies for me again - it was fun while it lasted....

If you buy this boat, plan on buying the boat at least twice in the first few years you own it.
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Old 05-24-2023, 08:14 AM   #32
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I have a 1973 GB36 which is glass. I have seen other posts of 1973 GB which are wood. I had heard that 1973 was the transition year but it seems the transition came at different times for different models.
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Old 05-24-2023, 08:20 AM   #33
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Pitfalls on FG boats are many and expensive too … less so but overall they are probably much the same. Of the top if a fire was to start in my boat I’d much rather it be wood. Doing structural repairs most of us would do better working w wood. But there’s hard to do FG work and wood work too. Leaks are worse on a wood boat but generally not much trouble to fix … just time consuming.

But when it comes to the pleasures of owning the boat wood has a huge advantage starting w very noticeable lack of noise. When you go for many many hours underway w a large diesel engine that feature could easily win a skipper over. Cruising the wood boat typically makes noises of a softer less harsh nature. With a FG boat you’d probably be inclined to ask if the boat had much sound insulation. Speaking of noise you could probably make a FG boat about equal to a wood boat but sound reducing insulation is not cheap and you’d need a lot of it.

But I think everyone knows painting and varnishing is a big job and is not something one can ignore as mildew and wood rot will take over. I’ve known families to make quick work of it tho.

When thinking about wood boats I can say (at my age) if I was to have a new boat built and had the money it would be wood. I could easily make it last 40 yrs and I won’t last even half that long.
I have never heard of a fiberglass boat sinking due to rot.
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Old 05-24-2023, 08:23 AM   #34
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Hi everyone,

This my first post here and I'm considering buying a 1964 Grand Banks 42 that i looked at. Owner says it was the last wooden hull (i was under the impression that Grand Banks went to fiberglass in 1963). Any thoughts? Does anyone know a survivor they would recommend (boat is in Los Angeles, CA)?
I will echo what seems to be the majority of opinion here. Unless you are very familiar with wooden boats and have a particular love for them, and also have specific skills or a deep, deep checkbook, I would steer clear. The modified FL is the icing on the cake for what would be my decision.
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Old 05-24-2023, 09:34 AM   #35
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"When thinking about wood boats I can say (at my age) if I was to have a new boat built and had the money it would be wood. I could easily make it last 40 yrs and I won’t last even half that long. [/QUOTE]

I have had both wood and glass boats. As stated there are advantages for both. But I think the cost of a "New Wood Boat" would be outrageous. So you are looking at 1970s wood boats as the youngest on the market. This in itself is an issue. However, if one is having issues docking a wood boat, try looking at private docks. They are fewer and in high demand but this could be a solution to your docking problems. I have a private dock and wouldn't have an issue with a wood boat that was properly cared for.
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Old 05-24-2023, 09:35 AM   #36
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I think it depends on if you want to be a "boater" or a "wooden boater". Woodies can be great for those that appreciate their qualities. For those people the attributes outweigh the detrimements. It's like a classic car. Owning a '57 Chevy is great for some, but its not a great means of transportation any more....its a hobby and a lifestyle. If you like classic manual watches you'd be thrilled to have a 50 year old Rolex, but if you want an accurate and dependable time piece you get a modern quartz watch.

To the OP: unless you aspire to be a wooden boat owner, don't do it. If you just want to get into boating plastic is fantastic. Wood has advantages and disadvantages and if you are not looking to appreciate those specific advantages, I think you will regret it. There's a very active Grand Banks owners forum. Spend some time there. Give more weight to the comments of the people who recently purchased their boat. The people that have owned their boats for 30+ years have boats that are well maintained. The new owners have boats with an unknown maintenance history, which would be more applicable to your situation. Good Luck!
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Old 05-24-2023, 11:34 AM   #37
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Grand Banks 42

Quote:
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Hi everyone,

This my first post here and I'm considering buying a 1964 Grand Banks 42 that i looked at. Owner says it was the last wooden hull (i was under the impression that Grand Banks went to fiberglass in 1963). Any thoughts? Does anyone know a survivor they would recommend (boat is in Los Angeles, CA)?
There is a wooden boat forum, sponsored by the magazine "WoodenBoat", and there was a thread with a similar question yours, except it was about a wooden GB Alaskan:

Grand Banks Alaskan

( sorry, for some reason I couldn't get the link to automatically work, but if you cut and past that address you should get to the thread.)

Might make for some interesting reading.

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Old 05-24-2023, 02:31 PM   #38
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RonObrian wrote,
“But I think everyone knows painting and varnishing is a big job and is not something one can ignore as mildew and wood rot will take over. I’ve known families to make quick work of it tho.”

Not talking bout FG.
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Old 05-24-2023, 05:05 PM   #39
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I have had both wood and glass boats. As stated there are advantages for both. But I think the cost of a "New Wood Boat" would be outrageous. So you are looking at 1970s wood boats as the youngest on the market. This in itself is an issue. However, if one is having issues docking a wood boat, try looking at private docks. They are fewer and in high demand but this could be a solution to your docking problems. I have a private dock and wouldn't have an issue with a wood boat that was properly cared for.
Re: sentence in red above. Wooden boats have been built here in Queensland for a long time and many since the 1970's. And new ones are still being built also. The link below is to one that was completed a few months ago.
https://www.anchorline.com.au/boats/...-c-masters-32/

There are still lots of wooden boat around here, and people who can work on them if you are not inclined to do it yourself. They can bring very good prices when well maintained.
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Old 05-25-2023, 07:17 AM   #40
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RonObrian wrote,
“But I think everyone knows painting and varnishing is a big job and is not something one can ignore as mildew and wood rot will take over. I’ve known families to make quick work of it tho.”

Not talking bout FG.

I think you may be talking about me? I'm not sure where you got that but I didn't say that.
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