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Old 12-04-2020, 01:06 PM   #81
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Ability for [hopefully] the correct choice of a boat to own is directly commensurate with a person's background with and experiences in boats/boating/marine-doings.

Points in fact:

Those of us... such as myself - if I may say so... with several decades of close-in boat, boating and marine experiences can usually [at first] self survey a boat and tell pretty well if it is a good deal to move forward on - or not. Increments thereafter leading toward purchase are usually quite a few and will tell the tale of buying or not.

Then there are those having no boat, boating or marine background/knowledge... many who request assistance for what to do regarding telling whether or not a boat is worthy of purchase... who come on TF with questions galore. For these persons I warn - be very careful and read each post very well. Then make your own nind up and go with what you feel is correct.

Good Luck to All Boat-People!
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:01 PM   #82
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All depends on one's priorities. We are into boating (1981 glass GB 32) because we like to go boating, first priority (The Only Way IS Underway). I have the responsibility for the second priority (retired 30 yr USN) of safety and reliability. My wife (the Queen of Brightwork) covers the third priority of impressive looks (hers and the boat!). With your proposed project, if your priorities include any active boating, this isn't your boat. If you gain enjoyment, a LOT of enjoyment, out of working on solving problems (hull, mechanical, electrical) with the boat tied up or on the hard, then maybe this is your boat. All boats are potential money losers, some more than others, this one for sure!
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:11 PM   #83
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GB 32 Woodie

There is only one way (IMO) that buying this boat makes any sense at all. That is to buy it for 12k, don't put another penny into it, use it till it quits and then donate it as a tax write off to one of the many charities that take even derelict boats, assuming you can get liability ins on it, which I assume you could. That would be a cheap way to own a GB 32 Woodie and get some enjoyment out of it. Otherwise, if you buy this boat, you will likely have $100k in it before it's all over, which is also fine if you have very deep pockets, want to own a classic wooden boat and can afford the cost, effort and time in annual maintenance to maintain it's value.
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:15 PM   #84
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GB 32 Woodie

I went through the same decision 2 years back on several nice condition ( on the surface ) GB Woodies. Ended up buying an Island Gypsy 42 1995 for a really good price and don't have all the worry about wood hulls.

I agree with the Walk Away Group unless you prefer restoring things over boating.

The advice on a slightly more expensive but fibre glass hull is good. It will actually be cheaper even in the short run.

This charter boat probably made some good money for the owner but sounds like very little was put back into keeping it up to date.

I would not even offer to take this GB for free.

Sorry for the negative response but please listen to us.
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:17 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soo-Valley View Post
There are lemons in wood, tupperware and metal.
Each captain can make an informed decision on a boat purchase, there is no right or wrong. Not all nay-sayers were wrong in this thread. Any older boat must be viewed with experienced eyes.
I cannot imaging buying a $12K boat and then spending 100-200K fixing it up.
My limit is double the purchase price as long as that total brings it within range of the average values of same ready to go boats. That said, every boat I have owned, even a new one needed a wheelbarrow of money to make it mine.

To your point"spending $100,000 -$200,000 fixing it up"....the o.p. didn't say that. Anither nay-sayer did.
Ya'll have gotten beyond ridiculous with your imaginary repairs and your inflated estimates. This man may not be the "here,take my credit card,fix it,and call me when it's ready" type,certainty not the armchair admirals that most are. Some of us,meaning myself included, really enjoy working on our woodies. I can take mine out anytime I want,and,work on it anytime I want. A boat doesn't have to be on the hill to work on it. Hell,I'll bet most of the Armchair Admirals "on here don't even service their own boats. They would rather pay someone $700-$1000 to do it rather than get their hands dirty. They probably don't even pump their own fuel.
So,if anyone fits into that category, keep your opinions to yourself. You have no clue what we are doing with our woodies.
As always, this is only "my humble opinion ".
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:31 PM   #86
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30 yrs ago in my 20's, I did something similar. I bought an old (30yr old) 33' twin diesel fish boat. It was rough, but runable. I got it for a low price. I ran the crap out of it for four years.

I did basic maintenance and necessary repairs, but I did NOT try to restore it or even improve it much. Replaced a couple of bottom planks (taught myself how to do it). Did bottom paint, some topside paint, deck paint, hull paint, engine maintenance, etc. Some normal decay continued as expected, but not rapidly. I did not try to stop it.

I never insured it, back then (1990's) that was no big deal to docks. One dock was commercial, they did not care about anything. One was a muni dock, they never asked, then a mooring, then on a private dock that I purchased.

At the end of my ownership, I sold it. Sold for about $4k less than I bought it for. I saw it chugging around in my local area for the next 15yrs. Looked even more rough, but was still float'n and chug'n.

So that is one way to handle buying an old woody. Restoring one would be silly, unless you have deep pockets and deep passion.
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:34 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by NUTIN FANCY TOO View Post
To your point"spending $100,000 -$200,000 fixing it up"....the o.p. didn't say that. Anither nay-sayer did.
Ya'll have gotten beyond ridiculous with your imaginary repairs and your inflated estimates. This man may not be the "here,take my credit card,fix it,and call me when it's ready" type,certainty not the armchair admirals that most are. Some of us,meaning myself included, really enjoy working on our woodies. I can take mine out anytime I want,and,work on it anytime I want. A boat doesn't have to be on the hill to work on it. Hell,I'll bet most of the Armchair Admirals "on here don't even service their own boats. They would rather pay someone $700-$1000 to do it rather than get their hands dirty. They probably don't even pump their own fuel.
So,if anyone fits into that category, keep your opinions to yourself. You have no clue what we are doing with our woodies.
As always, this is only "my humble opinion ".
We all log in here on TF for peoples stories, opinions and advice. After that we hopefully have a lot of information to consider.

If you don't want peoples opinions then you should not ask for them. This fellow did and got some really good advice from the TF Group.

No need to go after us for letting him know what our thoughts are.
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:52 PM   #88
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I would say walk away for the following reasons: Number One is that boats used in charter have typically been over-worked and lots of minor damages have been covered over. When I was boat-hunting every charter boat looked great until I looked carefully. Lots of little things broken, woodwork damaged, and so on.

Number Two: I have a friend with a 50-foot woodie GB from the 1980s. Boathouse-kept until he bought it. Everything in good working order when he bought it. Every year he puts hundreds of hours into wood rot repair, varnishing, and lots of minor mechanical repairs. He loves, loves, loves the boat but the work is wearing him out (he's in his late sixties). In five years he won't be able to keep up with it.

Number Three: Only an idiot would take an old 32-foot boat from SF to the PNW. I have friends that darn near broke a 50-foot boat making that run and two of them were former Navy and knew what they were doing. That boat has been punished.

Number Four: If you have plenty of money then buy a nice boat and use it. If you don't have plenty of money then this boat will break you. In my experience a 32-foot boat is a starting point. If you love boating you'll end up going bigger very soon. We have a28-foot boat that we loved, used it for three years, then moved to a 50-footer.

Good luck with your decision.

Rob
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:55 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTIN FANCY TOO View Post
He bought it. We're now friends on Facebook. I'm glad he listened to US,not the "nay-sayers" that have nothing good to say about woodies.
I'm still thinking we should have our own Grand Banks Woodies forum.
What think you all ?
Count me in.
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:00 PM   #90
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I have had a fibreglass Grand Banks (1979 GB 42 Classic) and a wooden Grand Banks (1973 GB 50).

I have had more rot in the wooden one but essentially all of it has been in the house, not the hull.

And rot in a wood is actually quite easy to fix ...
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:08 PM   #91
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American Marine made only 350 hulls of the GB32 in wood. I take it it was built in Hong Kong at the old bottling factory. A wooddie needs to be taken out of the water every year for below the sea line inspection, stripping, filling and antifouling. It is quite time consuming and expensive, besides it needs to be prepped by marine woodworkers and plank cracks filled with cotton and then corcked the proper way. Once the hull is done and since the engine is reconditioned, the rest of the work topside should be pleasant for you to do it and learn as you go. However, the sliding windows are very tricky and if not done properly can create awful leaks. The original deck is 10mm Burma teak which is the best in the world, and I take it it's about 8mm after all this time, fix it but do not replace it, for teak replacement will run you around $25K for this boat. The teak surface on that specific boat is around 20m2 (200sq.ft). Remove all the old black joints corking and apply new 3M Marine Sika under the loose planks and in between, let dry and sand it 180 grid and finish with 320grid. Do not perform any inside work before finishing the flybridge deck and the walk around decks. Once the outside work dries off, hose it down at medium pressure to check for leaks. The bilge being dry is a very good sign, get yourself a marine mechanic to check all systems, fix leaks at the transmission level and teach you basic and routine maintenance for your engine. From the pics you posted you look young and full of life, so one advice for you, get the damn thing and enjoy the living hell out of it for the wooddie GB32 is a hell of a boat and a classic. FYI I saw one similar 1973 I believe for sale in Long Beach CA, in immaculate shape in and out for around $35K, so your purchase price of $12K is right, for you will dump around $20K to bring it up to your expectations but this will take you about 2 years, so you have time to save some money on that end. BTW I own a GB32 1978 and that's my last boat, I love it. Good luck.
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:10 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTIN FANCY TOO View Post
Lordy Lordy. You have more money than you've got sense. Lol
There is absolutely no reason to go that far.
Evidently, I'm in a club with a bunch of Thurston Howe The Thirds,and I'm a Gilligan.
The way y'all talk about spending money,is like y'all own a bank.(some probably do).
Happiness is not spending a small fortune on a boat. Happiness is getting you a nice boat,that suits YOUR needs,not the millionaires clubs.
We do not ever own these old grand wooden ladis. We simply possess them for a time, and pass them on to the next person.
Y'all slack off of this guy.
Hmmmm,come to think of it,I'll bet ya that there are a few boat brokers on here,trying to sell him a boat.
And,as a final thought, i am going to look into the idea of having a WOODEN GRAND BANKS forum,to give people that truly love and want a woodie. Maybe that way they can get some constructive feedback
You know I owned that GB42-125 you have for many years. I was the 5th or 6th owner and now you are the 8th or 9th owner.
You may also know I bought her for $40k and spent $150k of my money, and some $60k of Boat US insurance money and $20k of potential buyer´s money all in making her ready to use and eventually giving her away at $22k. That buyer got $49k on insurance after that tornado you spoke of. It also proved how tough a boat she is.

You bought a boat that had already had a quart million spent on her for mere peanuts and you are in one of the last TRULY free areas to enjoy a boat like that, so by all means do enjoy it. But please recognize it is extremely expensive to restore and maintain ANY large boat. Woodies just require a bit more and a bit more frequently than steel, aluminum, fiberglass or ferrocement. But they will outlast them all if enough money is spent.

Your perspective will be dramatically different in Alabama on the Tennessee River than in San Francisco Bay or PNW areas, Outer Banks or The Keys. By all means continue to enhance and enjoy her, you know she means a lot to me. Having totally rewired her and replaced and enhanced so many systems and eliminated many of the details that cause issues with GB Woodies and other woodies, she should be easier to keep usable. But not everyone wins a Boat Lottery and gets a special boat that has had hundreds of thousands and literally tens of thousands of man hours spent on her for < a single 1% of all that.

So Be Happy and realize that most folks here and in other forums have had to invest on a whole new level, ten or a hundred times higher, thus they cannot relate any better than Thurston could relate to Gilligan. May you find your Mary Ann or Ginger and enjoy thousands of miles under our old gal´s keel. Remind folks that it is the Great Whittler´s Dream they are seeing when you get to the Bahamas and Exumas and if you ever return Northward to the Outer Banks.

Flat seas, and warm breezes to all of you.
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:15 PM   #93
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Gb32

We surveyed and sea-trialed two GB32’s in 2013 after we sold our Corbin 39 cutter. Known areas of concern (as if you don’t already have enough to make you run for cover): rainwater ingress along side walls, osmotic blistering below the waterline (one GB32 looked like a plowed field!), leaking transmission—some models are no longer repairable and if yours is one of them the later models of transmissions will not fit without raising the engine which you would never want to do. Need I go on? Start looking for another boat now. After seven years of cooling down after those disasters we finally worked up enough enthusiasm to purchase a Nordic Tugs 32 and could not be happier. Good luck.
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:17 PM   #94
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GB 32 Woodie

Quote:
Originally Posted by whjkelly View Post
We all log in here on TF for peoples stories, opinions and advice. After that we hopefully have a lot of information to consider.

If you don't want peoples opinions then you should not ask for them. This fellow did and got some really good advice from the TF Group.

No need to go after us for letting him know what our thoughts are.
Your comment to this individual was concise and quite polite. Mine would have taken a different turn.
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:48 PM   #95
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GB 32 Woodie

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Originally Posted by thebruce View Post
Well hello! We recently put a 1972 GB32 under contract and have tons of questions. The boat was used as a SUP charter boat and McCovey Cove party barge for Giants games here in SF. Its called the Barbary Ghost and its...infamous.

Sadly the owner's charter business has been shut down during COVID and he is unloading the boat. We've offer $12k conditional on survey and he accepted. I'm hopeful thats a reasonable price for the work we need to do. We plan on learning and doing as much of the work we can, but have started to identify people we can hire out specific jobs for reasonable rates.

Cosmetically its rough but it had a rebuild Ford Lehman 120 and the bottom inspected and repaired 5 years ago. It had another bottom job and inspection 2 years ago. So im hopeful there are no structural issues but the survey will tell next week.

I could use some help to get me oriented and up to speed on the project. I was looking for the GB Woody and GB forum but both look like they no longer work? Thats such a shame. From the comments they seem like they were amazing resources. Is this forum the next best resource today?

Ok so here are the questions I would love some feedback on. If you think we're being naive, by all means, share your opinion. I like to go into these projects knowing all my blind spots.

What I know:
  • The deckhouse, flybridge and all the brightwork needs to be stripped, sanded, repainted and revarnished. We have a team of 3 guys who will help us bang this heavy lifting over 1-2 weeks so we are back to a clean slate. That will make the project far less daunting.
  • I heard the flybridges are prone to rot. Luckily this one seems solid. Im wondering if it was already replaced at some point.
  • The interior needs to be completely stripped, repainted and revarnished. It looks like a fraternity house right now. We will do that ourselves.
  • The decks are so-so. They need to be bleached and the proud caulking trimmed. And then likely be recaulked as a longer term project.
  • The topsides aren't terrible. So that might be a job for next year. But all the bronze rub-rails need to to have pealing paint stripped off them.
  • All the stainless rails where painted black. I dont know why. They need to be stripped.
  • The port fuel tank is shot. We will need to cut it out and likely replaced with plastic tanks? But thats not an urgent job.
  • The bilge is dry
  • I dont see any visible rot. I can see an area near the starboard transom that had been refilled and an area on near the base of the starboard windshield. The place is to fair those properly.


What I dont know:
  • The transmission has a leak. I "think" that can just be uncoupled and the seal replaced.
  • The transmission has a lot of surface rust. I believe its a Borg Warner velvet drive. Im hopeful we can just wire it clean and repaint. Any tips appreciated.
  • I can see some crappy caulk jobs in the foredeck and can feel some moisture in the roof of the v-birth. That concerns me. Any tips appreciated.
  • The starboard v-birth port light also looks like it had rot around the trim at been filled.
  • How do I clean and rebuild the sliding windows? They have a lot of crud in the track and I couldnt move them.
  • Any tips on how you clean and rebel the 3 forward facing windows. Those look ok, no rot, but have years of gunk around the edges.
  • I know the transom is prone to issues. Anything to look for there?


Appreciate any tips to get us going in the right direction. If the survey checks out, I will put together some write-ups on the refit progress.
I'll make one more comment. I have a GB 36 Classic. 1984 model, glass, hull 712. It was in pretty good shape when I bought her for 80k. I've put over $30k into her and haven't had to seriously deal with engine/transmission/gen issues. Buying an old boat requires an enormous economic investment. Buying an old Woodie requires an even larger commitment. Go into this with eyes wide open and know what you are getting into.
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Old 12-04-2020, 04:01 PM   #96
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I stayed away from the discussion. Owned a wooden beetle cat at one point in my life and that was enough. No interest in best anchor debate.

Now that PO owns it, I'll address one of his original questions. A rusty transmission can't be wire brushed and repainted with a rattle can, It needs to be sand blasted down to bare metal, properly primed and painted. It's a moist environment with a slow leak from the packing gland spraying a fine mist everywhere.

Rich Gano offered a couple of good tips such as replacing the damper plate. I would suggest replacing the clutch disks while you have it out. Removing it is the hard part. Replacing the disks is relatively simple and they are generic to just about all models. Gasket sets are readily available.

(And to Nuttin Fancy Too who opines we are all armchair admirals. Didn't you just suggest we all keep opinions to ourselves? Was that an example of forum protocol you expect us to follow? just asking )
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Old 12-04-2020, 04:17 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NUTIN FANCY TOO View Post
To your point"spending $100,000 -$200,000 fixing it up"....the o.p. didn't say that. Anither nay-sayer did.
........
Which boat did he buy, the 12K or the 19k.

I did not infer the OP planned to spend 100-200, I stated that would be nuts for anyone except deep pockets intent on a restoration project conducted by others.
Last I looked in bilge a month ago it had 1/2 inch of water below base of forward pump. That was after an all night heavy rain. in the weeks after that I noted on my monitor that the pump operated twice for 15 seconds each during a week of heavy rains. I would think I don't have any leaks to be concerned about in the wood boat.
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Old 12-04-2020, 04:40 PM   #98
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The best time to buy this boat is after the rich guy gets finished restoring her for pennies on the dollar of what he paid to get it restored.

If you aren't the rich guy...or the guy with the baddest set of tools in the neighborhood and a spot to park the boat next doors....then run.


Seriously...Not if it was "FREE".
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Old 12-04-2020, 04:49 PM   #99
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So if the reports are true that the the OP bought the boat, then he MUST start a new thread to tell us how it all goes. I'm sure even the nay-sayers (myself included) wish you the best of success, and would love to follow progress.
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Old 12-04-2020, 05:09 PM   #100
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Interesting thread...

Always fun to read the comments from guys who like to present subtle put-downs, like "tupperware", or "plastic" boat. Just like the self-righteous sailboaters who refer to all of us as "stinkpotters", etc. Ridiculous, in other words...

Me, I've owned mostly fiberglass boats since 1973. I own boats to use. A Shamrock sportfishing boat, a Boston Whaler, and a welded aluminum jet boat for fishing the rivers.

I also own some vintage British & German sports cars, including a couple undergoing excruciating long & drawn out "restorations".

Let me briefly tell you about a good friend of mine. He has about 14 vintage British sports cars. The typical Jaguars, Austin-Healey's & MG's. All are in various stages of disrepair. All were intended to be "retirement projects", yet all sit in various storage warehouses around the area. My friend is now 71, and shows no sign of actually restoring any of the cars. When he actually drives, it's a BMW Z4.

Dear old guy also had an old woodie yacht. A beautiful 40' custom trawler, that was left to him. He was convinced that the boat was very valuable, as it was built by a renowned builder, not a common production line boat like the GB's...

When he got it, it had sat at the family dock for several years. Looked great from 50'. He had it towed to a "reputable" yard, who inspected it and started fixing it. Yard discovered a bunch of bad planks, fasteners, etc. They couldn't get the engine to run well, so they installed a "good" used engine. They did ton's of refinishing to the deck, cabin & flybridge. all in, this round of work cost him about $110,000.00. Give or take...

Then, they had it trucked home to the PNW (from SoCal) for another $28k.

Once in the Great NorthWet, he tried to run it a few times, but she still didn't perform well at all, even for an ancient wood single engine boat. I ran it a few times, and it just felt like a slug. So... He takes it to a renowned "wooden boat center" up on the Olympic Peninsula.

$130,000 MORE later... I finally get him to pull the plug and sell it. Three complete strip & repaints. A mediocre, basic electronics suite install, ANOTHER engine (this time a factory-rebuilt Cummins). More replanking & refastening. Etc, etc, etc... Ad nauseum...

So: my dear pal is in the tub o' wood for a whopping $268,000. Let that sink in for a minute...

I guesstimated the boat's value about $60k in reality. He lists it for $98k, because, you know: unreality has set in. After a few months of lowering the price, and a bunch of folks seeking the "romance" of a fine wooden yacht, it sells for $49,000. After the brokers chunk, he nets almost $42,000. We did get one nice afternoon picnic cruise on it though. That was lovely.

Ah, the romance of a wooden boat. The soft sound of dollar bills being carried off in the tide. The pride of knowing you've got style, and the guts to keep sanding to infinity, or keep writing checks.

Post script: My dear old friend does have a lot of money. He also is a very smart guy, couple Master's degrees, etc... He just got caught up in the sentimental romance of being the guy with the cool "vintage" yacht...
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