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Old 05-04-2018, 11:16 AM   #1
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AC and DC engine room lights?

My Eastbay has both AC (fluorescent) and DC lighting in the engine room. My question is if I'm going to replace them with LEDs do I need to continue to have AC units?

I'm thinking that in 2005 they used the AC lights to provide a LOT more lighting than DC units could provide at the time. With modern LEDs that's less of a problem. There's a lot more options now for LEDs that use DC, in all kinds of form-factors. That and all of the LEDS now use considerable less wattage for the same amount of light.

My question is should I even bother continuing to have the existing fluorescent fixtures powered by AC? A simple solution would be to get some LED replacements designed to fit like the fluorescent tubes. Most of those require bypassing the AC ballast, which is not difficult. I've done that in some basement light fixtures and that works fine. But unlike the house, the boat has 12vdc everywhere, so should I even bother keeping the AC lighting active? Should I just bring 12vdc to their fixture and convert them to DC?

Or just remove the AC fixtures entirely and replace them with DC LED units?

I get there's some value to redundancy, but if I've lost 12vdc power and need engine room lighting what's the likelihood I'm going to be able to start the generator to get AC power for them? Seems like switching to all DC and decommissioning the AC engine room lighting is a better plan.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:26 AM   #2
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I think that going all DC LED lighting makes sense. But you need to pull all of the old AC wiring back to its origin. I wouldn't just terminate with a wire nut or something.

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Old 05-04-2018, 11:35 AM   #3
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If the AC fluorescent fixtures are working, just leave them there. Power consumption usually a non-issue if you from some source have AC, and it is not that much power. And yes, sh!tcan the DC incandescents and swap to LED.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:58 AM   #4
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Don't know what type of DC fixtures you have but I switched mine yesterday
from 15w incandescents to less than 5w LED's and the ER is brighter.

This is what I used:
https://store.marinebeam.com/21-led-...ba-1142-21-ww/

I too would just leave the AC florescent fixtures alone.
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:03 PM   #5
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Our engine room also had 115 vac fluorescents and 12vdc incandescent. I replaced the 12v with leds and replaced the whole fixture units with 115 vac led fluorescent replacements. Get lots of light with the 115 vac leds. My thinking was, most major engine work would be done at dock, or on hard and I’d be plugged in for the ac leds. If at anchor, etc, 12 vdc would work, but could also crank up the generator if need more light. I find that the older I get, the more light I need to see by.
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:59 PM   #6
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Some of the AC fluorescents are flickering. As in, it takes a few taps on them sometimes to get them to stabilize. Not a big surprise out of 12 year old lights. So it's either fix or replace them and I'm leaning toward replace.

I'd definitely remove the AC wiring if I remove the fixtures.

Right now it's up on the hard getting the bottom repainted, and doesn't have shore power plugged into it. So I can't use AC lighting. Well, I probably could via the inverter but I haven't yet figured out how to turn that system on yet (not the obvious 'turn the handle' on the panel). But that's a whole other thread...

The other advantage to changing out to DC fixtures would be gaining some headroom. The AC fixtures are big, probably sticking down about 5" from the ceiling of the engine room. It's a 5'9" ceiling but I'm 6'3". So a couple of low profile surface mount fixtures would be a welcome change.

I'd be willing to consider a track of LED strip lighting if there's something out there suitable for engine room installation. I have no desire to half-ass this installation. I'll spend to get the correct sort of setup.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:04 PM   #7
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I'm guessing they're sort of like these fixtures:
Engine Room & Utility Lights Detail - 2' Engine Room Light, 2 x 24W, 120-277VAC

When I say I'm wiling to spend, oy, not THREE HUNDRED for a light fixture! There's probably six of them down there and that'd be stupid expensive at MSRP.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
I think that going all DC LED lighting makes sense. But you need to pull all of the old AC wiring back to its origin. I wouldn't just terminate with a wire nut or something.

David

Yes.... other option would be to buy a 2 lamp 4' Vapor Proof 120 VAC fixture in place of what's there. ( they are about 100.00 +/- ea. ) As was said somewhere, most work is done at the dock and even if it was not, the power via Inverter to power these AC LED fixtures would be negligible.

Re: old AC wiring by going to DC, assuming that the lighting circuit does not go anywhere else, I would leave in place and just remove from AC source and re route to DC source, the existing 120 Volt switches will most likely be o/k on DC .....

fb
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:18 PM   #9
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We had both 12vdc and 120 v florescent lights in our engine room, too. Went through the same thought process as you. Ended up yanking out the 120 v fixtures, additional headroom being one of several reasons, and replaced them with six LED light strips. SUPER bright! Lights it up like an operating room. Never regretted it. Doubt you will, either.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:41 PM   #10
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We have this style of fluro.
Unfortunately we paid more than $36 for them



https://www.mjselectricalsupplies.co...nt-batten.html

Adding in some cheap led work lights as well now, getting a bit sick of flickering fluoros., have had to replace starters and bulbs on some after less than 12 mths and probably 12 hours use
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:42 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by JohnEasley View Post
We had both 12vdc and 120 v florescent lights in our engine room, too. Went through the same thought process as you. Ended up yanking out the 120 v fixtures, additional headroom being one of several reasons, and replaced them with six LED light strips. SUPER bright! Lights it up like an operating room. Never regretted it. Doubt you will, either.
Link to the led strips please.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:56 PM   #12
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Bill: Here’s a thread on installing led lights in the engine room. Post 5 picks up where Nautibeaver, a 68’ Nordlund, installed 1 meter long, low proflie lights for pretty cheap. We did the same after seeing his results and couldn’t be happier.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...hts-14859.html
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Old 05-04-2018, 03:43 PM   #13
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When I bought my boat it was fitted with a mix of dc and ac light. I hated to be able to turn some on when at the dock some when at the anchor. I replaced everything with only dc leds last year and I cannot be happier!

L
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Old 05-04-2018, 04:02 PM   #14
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Yes.... other option would be to buy a 2 lamp 4' Vapor Proof 120 VAC fixture in place of what's there. ( they are about 100.00 +/- ea. ) As was said somewhere, most work is done at the dock and even if it was not, the power via Inverter to power these AC LED fixtures would be negligible.

Re: old AC wiring by going to DC, assuming that the lighting circuit does not go anywhere else, I would leave in place and just remove from AC source and re route to DC source, the existing 120 Volt switches will most likely be o/k on DC .....

fb
The AC wiring is going to be much smaller, better make darn sure it can handle the total possible load on the circuit. Personally I'd just leave the AC in there. I liked having both in my ERs and saw nothing to gain by the time and investment in conversion.
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Old 05-04-2018, 04:52 PM   #15
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My boat had both AC and DC lights. First I changed out all the DC light fixtures to a Very bright LED fixture. This gave me more light than the previous fixtures combined. Next I converted the AC fixtures to AC outlets, this gives me the option of adding a drop light or other power tools. In my case the ACwire was already 12 gauge but I had to run a ground wire to make things safe.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:51 PM   #16
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My boat had both AC and DC lights. First I changed out all the DC light fixtures to a Very bright LED fixture. This gave me more light than the previous fixtures combined. Next I converted the AC fixtures to AC outlets, this gives me the option of adding a drop light or other power tools. In my case the ACwire was already 12 gauge but I had to run a ground wire to make things safe.
That is what I would do if I had 120 volt lighting. I had 2 dim incandescent 12 volt lights in the engine room. Replaced both with LED and added another. Now it is very bright. I had 120 volt outlets in the engine room on a previous boat and used them pretty often.
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:18 AM   #17
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I replaced the fluorescents in three engine room lights with LED tubes from Marine Beam. The ballasts must be removed, an easy fix. When removing the ballast from the one light which was not working at all, under the cover I found one to have had significantly melted, frightening to me. Now the ER is as bright as it can possibly be in all corners. Keep the AC fixtures, remove the ballasts, and install LED tubes. You will be happy.
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:20 AM   #18
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I replaced the fluorescents in three engine room lights with LED tubes from Marine Beam. The ballasts must be removed, an easy fix. When removing the ballast from the one light which was not working at all, under the cover I found one to have had significantly melted, frightening to me. Now the ER is as bright as it can possibly be in all corners. Keep the AC fixtures, remove the ballasts, and install LED tubes. You will be happy.
Nothing quite as unnerving as coming across melted/smoked parts out of sight inside of electrical components.

That's what I had to do with a residential light in a utility closet. I left the ballast in there and followed the directions to direct-wire the circuit to the tube sockets. Works great. I went an additional step and used some neon yellow labeling tape to read "Ballast Disconnected" should someone come along later and make the mistake of using a cheap fluorescent tube for replacement.

Replacing just the tubes would likely be the simplest, but would still leave me with a situation that requires AC power to get decent lighting.

I'll take a hard look at how the DC wiring is laid out and calculate the total load of switching to all LED. Don't want to start down the road of changing to DC only to get into a situation that exceeds the existing wiring/breaker capacity.
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:22 AM   #19
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Bill: Here’s a thread on installing led lights in the engine room. Post 5 picks up where Nautibeaver, a 68’ Nordlund, installed 1 meter long, low proflie lights for pretty cheap. We did the same after seeing his results and couldn’t be happier.

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...hts-14859.html
That's a nice result. Trouble is with that much fresh light there will need to be some serious cleaning done first before I'd take any pictures!
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:52 AM   #20
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Nothing quite as unnerving as coming across melted/smoked parts out of sight inside of electrical components.

That's what I had to do with a residential light in a utility closet. I left the ballast in there and followed the directions to direct-wire the circuit to the tube sockets. Works great. I went an additional step and used some neon yellow labeling tape to read "Ballast Disconnected" should someone come along later and make the mistake of using a cheap fluorescent tube for replacement.

Replacing just the tubes would likely be the simplest, but would still leave me with a situation that requires AC power to get decent lighting.

I'll take a hard look at how the DC wiring is laid out and calculate the total load of switching to all LED. Don't want to start down the road of changing to DC only to get into a situation that exceeds the existing wiring/breaker capacity.
Great point about labelling the fixtures. As for the AC current draw, a 48" tube from Marine Beam draws 20 watts. I do not know what a 12 volt LED bulb that delivers similar levels of brightness draws but my guess is that the difference would not be significant.
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