Trawler vs. Sea Ray Sundancer

[Giggitoni]

I do the same, Al. I've always given an ETA to the tender when I'm the only boat needing a lift. And four to five minutes seems about right. I always give a "thanks" after passing. Also, I usually give my mast height, 22' - 6", when approaching.

 

[Moonstruck]

When heading South down Lake Worth near Palm Beach, I was admonished by a couple of bridge tenders for calling to early to let them know I would be coming through at their next opening time. *A little farther South, I arrived early at a bridge, and called for a opening about 4 or 6 minutes before scheduled opening time. *The bridge tender said that I hadn't called early enough, and that he would not open. *That did it. *I told him in no uncertain terms what I thought about that, and that it would be reported. *He did not answer, but the gates came down, and the bridge went up. *I didn't thank him.

The US 1 bridge on the St. Lucie River in Stuart is among the best in attitude.

 

[markpierce]

Giggitoni wrote:
I do the same, Al. I've always given an ETA to the tender when I'm the only boat needing a lift. And four to five minutes seems about right ....

*That would be about a*half mile at "trawler" speed.* So Ray, do you call the Mare Island Causeway bridge*before leaving*the marina to go*upriver and when passing under Hwy 37*going downriver?

 

[FF]

This is a trawler board , the big problem is many folks come on this board are looking at SR as a house boat , operated at trawler like speeds.

The plaining boats will get you where you want to go faster , but at 1nm/gal or less.

Folks look at the volume and designed interiors, low prices and wonder why not buy one and run slow?

This is why we get SR questions here.

Might be reason for a seperiate thread.

 

[Budds Outlet]

Please accept my posts on this thread as they were meant, in jest I am well aware my SR is not a trawler but I intend to acquire a trawler or similar style boat within the next two years and I find the discussions on this board to be very informative. In the mean time i will not take offence with comments regarding the poor suitability of SR's for trawler like speeds.

 

[rwidman]

Budds Outlet wrote:
Please accept my posts on this thread as they were meant, in jest I am well aware my SR is not a trawler but I intend to acquire a trawler or similar style boat within the next two years and I find the discussions on this board to be very informative. In the mean time i will not take offence with comments regarding the poor suitability of SR's for trawler like speeds.

*

This is the Internet.* You can post a photo of any boat, it doesn't have to be actualy yours.*

*

 

[ksanders]

FF wrote:
This is a trawler board , the big problem is many folks come on this board are looking at SR as a house boat , operated at trawler like speeds.

The plaining boats will get you where you want to go faster , but at 1nm/gal or less.

Folks look at the volume and designed interiors, low prices and wonder why not buy one and run slow?

This is why we get SR questions here.

Might be reason for a seperiate thread.

*Thats because the definition of a "trawler" has changed over time.

It used to be (in the 70 and 80's)*that the traditional "trawler" was a boat that was driven at hull speed.

Now we have the pretty much exact same hulls, but with large power plants, and cruise speeds of 14-20 knots. Even if the hulls have changed somewhat the brand name hasn't. Take for example Krogen express and Grand Banks. Even the tugs will now go as fast as many cruisers.

Add that to the fact that some traditional runabout manufacturers have gotten into the large cruiser/trawler game. Take my Bayliner 4788, and Woodsongs 4588*for example. Here we have a marque that is known for its inexpensive ski boats building very large cruisers that fit the definition of the word "trawler" as its been redefined by all of the manufacturers. These manufacturers have also "upscaled" their fit and finish to match the competition.

As far as costs go, I'd be careful with that one. Look at the price of >40' sea ray some time. You could buy several traditional "trawlers" for the price of one of those. When I was looking at trawlers I found that the Bayliner 4788 pilothouse was among the higher priced boats in that size range. Looking at PACNW listings I could buy any of several Defever 49's for example for less than a Bayliner 4788. A friend bought a Hatteras 48 LRC 2 years ago for less than a 4788 as well.

When you look at fuel economy things can be deceving as well. For example my 4788 Bayliner gets 1.7 NMPG at "trawler" speeds. While that is not exceptional when looking at single engine "passagemakers" like the Nordhavn for example, it is on par with what most folks seem to get out of other boats in this size range.


-- Edited by ksanders on Friday 24th of February 2012 04:02:28 PM

 

[Giggitoni]

Mark,

Just returned from Utah and back to the forum. I usually wait until I'm out in the channel and within a few minutes from the bridge before calling on VHF. A couple of weeks ago the USCG Notice to Mariners listed Mare Island Causeway Bridge has having its deck resurfaced and required a 15 minute notice. The notice would allow the workers to leave the span before a lift. I don't know if the deck work is completed yet. If not I would call as I'm backing out of our slip. Or I may decide to call on the tenders phone (which is published).

Like others, I slow to minimum steering speed as I approach and, depending on the current (flood or ebb), leave myself enough time for the tender to reply and stop automobile traffic. This usually totals about five minutes. Same on the way down. And as Al said, use VHF channel 13 on Mare Island bridge rather than channel 9 for the other bridges further up in the Delta. They frown on making initial contact with channel 16...

 

[FF]

Do not be surprised if the bridge tender is sleeping , or the TV volume is up and the squelch on the radio at max.

2 solutions seem to work.

A VHF call to the USCG asking if there has been a medical emergency to the bridge tender ,
and asking if they could land line call and check.

Our 10G starting cannon , on the fore deck, good black powder shells , and a single bang.

 

[FlyWright]

FF wrote:
Do not be surprised if the bridge tender is sleeping , or the TV volume is up and the squelch on the radio at max.

That happened to me one time at the Miller's Ferry Bridge.* After no reply on several radio calls and horn soundings, I called the main bridge, the Rio Vista Bridge, and they called him direct via phone and, apparently, woke him up.* I never got a reason, but the bridge opened immediately after he initiated a call to me on the radio.*

Maybe he was a former Air Traffic Controller...I hear they do the same thing.


-- Edited by FlyWright on Saturday 25th of February 2012 11:45:48 AM

 

[Tom.B]

Well, well, well... Former CEO of Sea Ray taking over at Hatteras/Cabo!!!!

What's next? Bayliner buys Nortic Tug? :headbang:

http://www.newbernsj.com/articles/new-104800-steer-cabo.html (new tab)

 

[ksanders]

Acutally the same company, brunswick owns Hatteras, Bayliner, Meridian, Cabo, Mercruiser and many more.

I would love to enter into a friendly debate/discussion some day regarding Bayliner large cruisers and Yachts Vs the competition.

If anybody is interested, just start a thread. If we can keep it to the facts, the truth about these boats will suprise many.

Its really a west coast east coast thing. On the west coast particularly the PACNW few people have a bias against Bayliners.

 

[FF]

I would love to enter into a friendly debate/discussion some day regarding Bayliner large cruisers and Yachts Vs the competition.

This is why I always ask a newbe that wants a "trawler" WHY? a trawler?

 

[twiisted71]

Warning* Thread Hijack*
My bias about Bayliners may be unfounded but hey they are boats and unless you are a commercial capt. they are emotional things and sometimes it doesn't take much to sway us. Anyway we looked at 2 45' Bayliners when shopping. REALLY liked the layouts, but..............on one the entire helm area had been painted and upholstered (nice work though) BLACK!!!! Coming from a commercial fishing background I know about ruining night vision and all but everything from the side doors forward was BLACK! It was like a furnace in there and the rest of the boat was equally distasteful (yeah I know...cosmetics) but it was like Tammy Fay Baker! The other had about 5 gallons of trans fluid in the bilge! I said aren't you worried about the pumps shooting it overboard! "No, those areas don't drain into the real bilge area" I have a scoop and a bucket! And the underside of every area on both boats looked like upside down haystacks b/c the f'glass hadn't been bothered to be rolled down on the unseen areas but I promise you'd have noticed if you had to do any work in them. These very well may have both been Friday afternoon boats and weren't finished as well as most of them, but they did make me focus on certain areas on the future boats we looked at. This was just my experience so I hope no one gets bent. I have found a few areas on my Mainship that weren't rolled down too. This is a sore spot for me because as a teenager,we (my family) BUILT our last two shrimp boats ourselves and I can remember thinking I was going to die from the heat (Venice La) and fumes while rolling EVERY surface smooth.

 

[psneeld]

ksanders wrote:
Acutally the same company, brunswick owns Hatteras, Bayliner, Meridian, Cabo, Mercruiser and many more.

I would love to enter into a friendly debate/discussion some day regarding Bayliner large cruisers and Yachts Vs the competition.

If anybody is interested, just start a thread. If we can keep it to the facts, the truth about these boats will suprise many.

Its really a west coast east coast thing. On the west coast particularly the PACNW few people have a bias against Bayliners.

*Well...where I come from the people that really know anything about a variety of boats...know that the Bayliner Motor Yachts are actually pretty nice.* I ran/worked on*a bunch after the Sea Ray dealership I worked for pickerd up the line before the name change to Meridian.

Not that they are top of the line but certainly equal to or better than most of the other big names.

In some respects..the new Sea Rays were being built as good as some of the even higher end boats I was familiar with...especially because some of the higher end boats were butchered with after market stuff that dealers or "add on" techs did without proper installs.* The Sea Rays"came" with those options or were factory prepared for them.

Hardly any production boat is ready for serious cruising right out of the factory and left to many marine companies/ marinas and "previous owners"...it is already started it's overall decline in many cases.

 

[psneeld]

twiisted71 wrote:
Warning* Thread Hijack*
My bias about Bayliners may be unfounded but hey they are boats and unless you are a commercial capt. they are emotional things and sometimes it doesn't take much to sway us. Anyway we looked at 2 45' Bayliners when shopping. REALLY liked the layouts, but..............on one the entire helm area had been painted and upholstered (nice work though) BLACK!!!! Coming from a commercial fishing background I know about ruining night vision and all but everything from the side doors forward was BLACK! It was like a furnace in there and the rest of the boat was equally distasteful (yeah I know...cosmetics) but it was like Tammy Fay Baker! The other had about 5 gallons of trans fluid in the bilge! I said aren't you worried about the pumps shooting it overboard! "No, those areas don't drain into the real bilge area" I have a scoop and a bucket! And the underside of every area on both boats looked like upside down haystacks b/c the f'glass hadn't been bothered to be rolled down on the unseen areas but I promise you'd have noticed if you had to do any work in them. These very well may have both been Friday afternoon boats and weren't finished as well as most of them, but they did make me focus on certain areas on the future boats we looked at. This was just my experience so I hope no one gets bent. I have found a few areas on my Mainship that weren't rolled down too. This is a sore spot for me because as a teenager,we (my family) BUILT our last two shrimp boats ourselves and I can remember thinking I was going to die from the heat (Venice La) and fumes while rolling EVERY surface smooth.

*For about every praise or complaint about the vast majority of production boats out there...I could find a suitable counter.* Things that may or MAY NOT even be important to some are showstoppers to others.*

Let's take Mainships for example.* The last one I saw hanging in the travel lift straps at the yard I run out of had cracked the side decks at the fuel fills.* Never saw a Bayliner MY do that.*

So you can see where I'm going with this...they all have strengths and weaknessess.* So point away...but it's easy for others to point right back.


-- Edited by psneeld on Saturday 3rd of March 2012 07:04:05 AM

 

[Tom.B]

Gosh y'all... I was just kidding ;-)

 

[twiisted71]

LOL ya wanna get me started on Mainships???!! Sure I bought one BUT lemme tell ya, they are capable of being some seriously un-seaworthy rigs (I'm speaking strictly of the '70s-80's 34 trawlers) Out of the dozen we looked at only 2 didn't have the deck sagging under the aft cabin's glass wall. 2 had become so structurally unsound that the entire cabin from the decks upward had "settled" 2-3" and the side decks angled inward and the cockpit had a serious forward slant! On one the cabin roof was bowl shaped. this is the primary reason I'm reluctant to recommend Mainships of this era esp. to new buyers that may not know what to look out for.
We would not have bought one if it wasn't for the simple fact that the layout was what we both wanted and in the size and price we felt comfortable spending in this economy. I really wanted a GB or MT europa or a KK 42. I've seen more than a few of those I wouldn't take on a dare as well though.

I do like the price point and style of the big Bayliners are there years when the quality control was good and bad that is known?


-- Edited by twiisted71 on Saturday 3rd of March 2012 08:15:16 AM

 

[Anode]

Speaking of Sea* Ray. Here's a picture of my first boat. My uncle Ray Carr developed the fiberglass molds and started the Ray Craft boat company in the mid-50's. It was located in Detroit, Michigan. He sold the company to Connie Ray who changed the name to Sea Ray a short time later. I have great memories of original boat company and our Ray Craft boats.* I have never owned a Sea Ray.

 

[Anode]

No, but my son's middle name is Carr.

 

[twiisted71]

gotta love a boat with fins

 

[hollywood8118]

It's been interesting reading where all this thread has gone..

Regarding the initial topic of sea Ray's ..

I have bashed them as much as anyone.. who among us hasn't had evil thoughts when you have been slogging along for hours and some schmuck with his muscle shirt and gold chains flapping in the breeze... with his skinny,long blond hair, barely clad bikini wearing girlfriend ( trawler guys never have those kind of wives ) passes you with a casual wave.. then makes you wish just for a moment that you didn't have that kind of speed?

We have all been there... most won't admit it though.

We have lived the trawler life for over fifteen years and then last year moved to a 45' sea ray express. It has a lot of limitations.. lack of range and water capacity, not too much extra on deck lounging areas.. the long pointy bow doesn't hardly even have a flat spot to lay and read a book for any length of time and the main cabin is a cave.

But the speed it like a drug ( and it costs about as much as a good addiction ). When we moved from the big boat to the fast boat we knew it would more than likely be a interim step... we have had it about 16 months and I am looking into selling the Sea Ray and starting to look for the next boat.

Has it been a good experience?, absolutely. The sea ray has added a different element to my seamanship experience.* Ironically my two high school age girls dislike the sea ray more than I do. I thought the glossy go fast boat would be right to their liking... but I guess I raised a couple of trawler girls... who would of thought that would be the case. Attached is a picture of both boats on the day the sale went through.

On a side note... the one surprise is that the build quality of the Sea Ray is in my mind excellent... Sea Ray didn't cut corners on anything that I have found so far.. and the glass work is flawless

HOLLYWOOD

 

[Codger2]

hollywood8118 wrote:
On a side note... the one surprise is that the build quality of the Sea Ray is in my mind excellent... Sea Ray didn't cut corners on anything that I have found so far.. and the glass work is flawless

******* No surprise here! I had a 1975- 17' SeaRay many years ago and it weighed almost twice as much as their next closest competitor. Love them or hate them, they are a high quality boat.

 

[twiisted71]

I have a friend who worked for a MarineMax~SeaMax? dealer, anyway he trained new boat owners as part of their purchase. He is a commercial capt. and has been for EVER. His take on Searays was that they are well built boats, not well built for high production boats, well built boats Period. As far as practicality and ergonomics.......well YMMV.

 

[Tom.B]

Anode wrote:
Speaking of Sea* Ray. Here's a picture of my first boat. My uncle Ray Carr developed the fiberglass molds and started the Ray Craft boat company in the mid-50's. It was located in Detroit, Michigan. He sold the company to Connie Ray who changed the name to Sea Ray a short time later. I have great memories of original boat company and our Ray Craft boats.* I have never owned a Sea Ray.

*

Didn't I see one of these on Pawn Stars?

 

[Moonstruck]

twiisted71 wrote:
I have a friend who worked for a MarineMax~SeaMax? dealer, anyway he trained new boat owners as part of their purchase.*

*This is what SeaRay is best at. *Getting the first time boat buyer, and getting him to identify with the brand. *The dealers and SeaRay groups continually have cruises and outings. *The owners see the latest models, and keep moving up in the same brand. *I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a baby, kind of entry level Hateras emerge. *Of course it would not be a cheap boat, but something to get more owners into the Hatteras brand. *It will be interesting to see what changes the new CEO at Hatteras does.